The Auswine Forum

Hi all,

Can anyone explain what "ripe" tannins are? Any any other tannin descriptors are.


Grasshopper

This is very nearly a Dorothy Dixer for me, as it is a subject very close to my heart.
Basically ripe tannins are those deived from ripe grapes, namely those from physiologically ripe fruit ( ie brown seeds, brown stalks)
Its part of our philosphy that ripe tannins are soft tannins, those that can be enjoyed relatively early, yet seem better for long term ageing.

To get back to basics, tannins are a group of compounds found in nature that include red colour, and are found in oak, skins and seeds, and stalks.
Reds are made on skins so have way more total tannins than whites made basically from juice extracted with a minimum of skin contact.

They react with the proteins inside your mouth to give that astringent drying sensation in the mouth (stripping it of its protein lubricant).
They all react together to form longer chains that eventually fall out of solution ( which is why the red colour changes as wines age and soften).

As we hate green charachters in red wines ( minty menthol eucalyptus herbaceous) etc, the wines that carry these charachters often show a hard tannin structure that is quite bitter.
or simply put
Ripe tannins Good
Green tannins Bad

Cheers
Smithy

Chuck,

What Smithy says - and to give you some idea of what "green" tannins are in red wine (.. how can red wine be green? ...)

get hold of some good green-tea leaves (pi lo chun would be good)

also some good black-tea leaves (Keemun is best)

Make a proper brew of each and decant all the infusion (drink at leisure).

Now take a teaspoon of the still wet leaves from each - green tea first. Chew the leaves and get a taste and feel (tannins are tactile); rinse your mouth out and repeat with the black tea leaves.

This is as close as I can get to describing what I am looking for when I taste berries in the vineyard. When the tannins change from the green-tea type to the black-tea type I call in the white-coat and suggest that it is time to harvest.

In simple terms, the green tea is an unfermented leaf - with pure "green" tannins; on the other hand black-teas are fully fermented leaves and the tannins are rounder, more complete.

Try the experiment - if nothing worse, you'll have two tins of very good tea to drink - and you'll never go back to supermarket specials ever again!

And the answer to your question is, yes, those in the industry are as anal about tea as they are about wine

... and coffee

... and beer

... and food

... and .......................................

GG

Thanks guys. I like green tannins in both tea and wine. I brew tea in the microwave and love green tannins in cabernet from Coonawarra and MR etc. The Penfolds style has tannins added. Real hairy chest stuff.

As most know I dislike the modern shiraz style. Viva le '80s

Would I like French wines?

Chuck

Andrew,

I agree with everything you said except this:

smithy wrote:As we hate green charachters in red wines ( minty menthol eucalyptus herbaceous) etc, the wines that carry these charachters often show a hard tannin structure that is quite bitter.

Firstly, not everyone hates green characters in red wine. Secondly, there is a big difference between green flavours/characters and unripe, green tannins in red wine. Unripe tannins does not have to be the cause of mint, menthol, and eucalyptus characters. Just look at Cabernet Sauvignon (in general), Langhorne Creek Shiraz etc.

Also, in very young reds, there is sometimes a slight bitterness to the tannins on the back palate that fades fairly quickly, and according to Pernaud, can be a sign that the wine should age well.

Maybe it was 'we' as in the royal we?
Also a slight hardness to the tannin can put a bit of backbone into a wine...and it does settle with age. Not everyone likes wine with the consistency of soup. I like some capsicum/mint/herb characters in cabernet too.
GW