The Auswine Forum

In prior tastings I’ve never been a fan of the 2004 Penley Phoenix, and the combination of some glowing reviews by other forumites against other views similar to mine made me wonder whether it was possibly bottle related. When a new batch (with the latest International Judges Trophy 2005 Limestone Coast Wine Show sticker) arrived at my local at a very cheap price it was worth another go, but to keep it honest I opened a 2004 Majella at the same time. It seemed a fair match up – both multiple trophy winning Coonawarra Cabernets at 14.5% alcohol were sampled side-by-side over a few nights, with and without food, and with both large dinner & XL5 glasses each night to see if it made any difference.

2004 Penley Estate Phoenix Sauvignon (Cork): Dark to inky red/purple. The nose opens with a hit of big, ripe blackcurrant fruit with a hint of menthol, toast/cedar, cigarette paper and some star anise. With breathing it combined unusual warm earth/chocolate characters with tomato ketchup characters, eventually finishing with heavy menthol and vegetal notes. The entry of the mid-weight palate was aggressive and bloody, followed by wallop of very-sweet and ripe blackcurrant fruit, before dropping away to leave a classic mid-palate hole. The finish was very tannic with decent length and a slight trace of sweetness; with a few hours breathing it’s more savoury with some black olive and liquorice characters but it’s also noticeably hotter.

2004 Majella Cabernet Sauvignon (Screwcap): Glass hugging/staining dark to very inky purple/black – the colour is incredible, more like a 2005/barrel sample, it’s guaranteed to turn your tongue black. A heady, ripe nose of cassis/blueberries, chalk, capsicum and supporting cedar/nutty oak; the palate opens with a powerful hit of chalky cassis, with hints of earth/peat, capsicum and seaweed, finishing long and nutty with a lingering hint of chalk, liquorice and black pepper. With food and breathing the capsicum characters became far more pronounced, while the nose began to appear spirity and the palate finish hot and seemingly shorter due to the alcohol.

The final verdict? The Phoenix was far better this time around than previous tastings, and yet there’s still that dirty/charry oak, vegetal characters and alcohol heat I just don’t like. The big plus this time was that there was a good core of blackcurrant fruit, but at no time did it ever seriously come close to the Majella in terms of palate weight and length.

The Majella is stunningly young, concentrated and long – while it’s very ripe it’s unmistakably Coonawarra, and I’m comfortable with the heavy capsicum characters as it’s been a key feature of every great bottle of Wynns John Riddoch/Black Label I’ve tried. That said it did look a bit clumsy/overblown with food at the moment, and needs time to settle down – it’s a show pony right now, but I still think it has all the goods for something really special.

Cheers
Ian

Thanks for taking the time to do these side by side, I intend to exactly the same soon.

I must say I haven't had much feeling of hotness from any of the 2004 Phoenix's I've had, but once again this hasn't been a view formed from blind tasting the two side by side.

I am interested in your view that the Phoenix has "vegetal characters" that you don't like, yet the Majella has "heavy capsicum characters" which you are happy with. I hope that these two flavors are different enough to you to deserve such differing responses, as to me I find the difference between 'capsicum' and 'vegetal' very negligible.

Danny wrote:Thanks for taking the time to do these side by side, I intend to exactly the same soon.

I must say I haven't had much feeling of hotness from any of the 2004 Phoenix's I've had, but once again this hasn't been a view formed from blind tasting the two side by side.

I am interested in your view that the Phoenix has "vegetal characters" that you don't like, yet the Majella has "heavy capsicum characters" which you are happy with. I hope that these two flavors are different enough to you to deserve such differing responses, as to me I find the difference between 'capsicum' and 'vegetal' very negligible.

If you've got just these two wines there's not much point trying them blind - the colour of the Majella is just too much of a dead giveaway for openers.

In regard to "vegetal vs capsicum" I actually find the two very different, but that could be because my definition of vegetal mightn't be quite correct. I equate it with vegetable peelings/the smell of a dirty raw vegetables/the general scent of a green grocer store, which to me is noticably different to a young, fresh capsicum/bell pepper. Ultimately it's a personal thing - one smells clean, the other dirty, which is where one's preferences/tolerances really kick in.

Cheers,
Ian

I'd agree too. Quite different.
Capsicum is spicy and varietal (within limits). Generally a good smell.
Vegetal is negative. Under-ripe fruit. Unpleasant. Almost never good.
GW

n4sir wrote:(snip)
In regard to "vegetal vs capsicum" I actually find the two very different, but that could be because my definition of vegetal mightn't be quite correct....

I was certainly not trying to imply that your terminology is incorrect. This is one of the main difficulties of trying to explain one sense by using words alone... it's damn difficult.

After reading your further explanation of the difference between vegetal and capsicum I can see how these two 'flavors' could be considered markedly different. I haven't used the term vegetal as part of my wine vocabulary, which might mean I'm not as clever as I think I am (which my girlfriend often tells me is the case ), or that I just use different words... I'll leave that up to others to decide.

Anyway... I hadn't noticed much of a note of underipe fruit (as explained by both yourself and Gary) on either of these wines. But I'll be certain to look for it when I re-taste them side-by-side soon.