The Auswine Forum

In the last few weeks I have increased my wine books from zero to 3 (Halliday 04, 07 & Oliver 06). So I have been looking through to see what has rated highly which fit in with what a local off-licence is selling on offer for the next 2 weeks. So my question is which of the following wines are worth buying (and drinking now). I have included J Oliver's rating and drining window in [ ... ] and any Halliday comments in ( ... ).

Leasingham Classic Clare Shiraz 1997 : $35 [93, 05-09]
Leasingham Classic Clare Shiraz 1999 : $35 [90, 04-07] (95, 07-19)
Katnook Cab Sav 2001 : $31.50 [92, 09-13]
Annie's Lane Coppertrail Shiraz 1999: $37.10 [92, 07-11] (95, 04-140
Brown Brothers Patricia Shiraz 2002: $29.33 - I see TORB rated this v highly
Howard Park Scotsdale Cab Sav 2001 : $25 [93, 06-09+] (94, 11-21)
Howard Park Scotsdale Shiraz 2001: $25 [88, 03-06+] (94, 11-21)
Howard Park Leston Shiraz 2001: $25 [88, 03-06+] (95, 08-18 )
Majella 2003 Cab Sav: $26.60 [86, 05-09] (94 points)
Majella 2002 Shiraz: $26.60 [87, 04-07]
Yarra Burn 2001 Shiraz: $17.50 [86, 03-06+] (94, 2015)

And one which is a bit expensive
Hardy's 'Thomas Hardy' 1996 Cab Sav: $58 [94, 08-16+]


I am wanting to buy the wine to drink as opposed to cellar, therefore I was thinking of getting

3 x Annie's Lane
3 x Brown Brothers
2 x Katnook
2 x Howard Park Scotsdale Cab Sav
1 x Leasingham Shiraz 1997
1 x Leasingham Shiraz 1997

Thought's on what are good buys?????

Cheers

The Leasingham doesnt strike me as great value. 97 wasnt a flash vintage. Cant remember trying the 97 but thought it would be more prudent to buy the 02???

The aussies may be able to pick this line of thought up

I have had the 99 Classic Clare Shiraz and didn't think it was all that great and I paid less that $35.
I like the 03 Majella Cab and have a 6 pack. Not the greatest Majella ever but still a good wine.
I haven't had the Patricia but Torb is not the only one who rates it highly so I would give it a try.

Don't forget about Gavin when you purchase, buying in dozen lots he can probably put together a pack for you that will be at least as good vfm if not better.

GlenB

I had the Annies Lane a few months ago and it is drinking very well now. I think it would be a good buy if you are looking for a drink now prospect but it could hold for quite some time too.

Maybe go for a wide spread and treat it as a "tasting case". That way you can avoid having excess bottles of something you don't like (e.g. something like Leasingham may be too oaky).

I'd agree on dropping the 97 Leasingham, but maybe choose 2, 3 or 4 of any you know you like and otherwise one of each to make the dozen.

If you like any of the single bottles, maybe get 3, 6 or 12 if you want to then see how they cellar.

Worth also looking out for something a little older, to see what your taste is for older wines (I like them and am quite tolerant of ones that are over the hill, others prefer primary fruit and a lick of tannin). If you can get hold of something like a 91 Lindemans Limestone Ridge (see various notes via search utility) then that's a good (and relatively cheap) view of what aged Aussie reds can offer. Maybe try the Thomas Hardy if you can't find say a good 94 or 91 from South Australia.

Have fun

Ian

mkcoleman wrote:In the last few weeks I have increased my wine books from zero to 3 (Halliday 04, 07 & Oliver 06). So I have been looking through to see what has rated highly which fit in with what a local off-licence is selling on offer for the next 2 weeks. So my question is which of the following wines are worth buying (and drinking now). I have included J Oliver's rating and drining window in [ ... ] and any Halliday comments in ( ... ).

Leasingham Classic Clare Shiraz 1997 : $35 [93, 05-09]
Leasingham Classic Clare Shiraz 1999 : $35 [90, 04-07] (95, 07-19)
Katnook Cab Sav 2001 : $31.50 [92, 09-13]
Annie's Lane Coppertrail Shiraz 1999: $37.10 [92, 07-11] (95, 04-140
Brown Brothers Patricia Shiraz 2002: $29.33 - I see TORB rated this v highly
Howard Park Scotsdale Cab Sav 2001 : $25 [93, 06-09+] (94, 11-21)
Howard Park Scotsdale Shiraz 2001: $25 [88, 03-06+] (94, 11-21)
Howard Park Leston Shiraz 2001: $25 [88, 03-06+] (95, 08-18 )
Majella 2003 Cab Sav: $26.60 [86, 05-09] (94 points)
Majella 2002 Shiraz: $26.60 [87, 04-07]
Yarra Burn 2001 Shiraz: $17.50 [86, 03-06+] (94, 2015)

And one which is a bit expensive
Hardy's 'Thomas Hardy' 1996 Cab Sav: $58 [94, 08-16+]


I am wanting to buy the wine to drink as opposed to cellar, therefore I was thinking of getting

3 x Annie's Lane
3 x Brown Brothers
2 x Katnook
2 x Howard Park Scotsdale Cab Sav
1 x Leasingham Shiraz 1997
1 x Leasingham Shiraz 1997

Thought's on what are good buys?????

Cheers

Well, I automatically deduct 3-5 points off JH high scores these days (if I'm looking at scores).

I don't really have any idea what sort of Oz reds you like, but there is only one way to find out, that's by doing what you intend here - trying a range of different styles.

The Leasingham CC 97 was Ok, but not great value, same for the 99, but I guess worth a try of one each to see if you like them. You may have problems getting the 2001 Howard Parks, current vintage is 2003 (and a much lesser vintage IMO). The Leston Cabernet was the one I liked most from 2001, but JO rates the 2003 higher.
The Brown Bros Patricia 2002 is a very classy wine, but it's pretty oaky now and needs a few years in the cellar for best drinking. If you can get it under $30 that's a real bargain though.

I'd put a Majella 2003 Cab in there too, not their greatest effort, but still a good wine, if you like the 2003 then the newly released 2004 may suit you too. Avoid the Majella 2002 Shiraz though.

I'd go with the JO rating on the Yarra Burn, 2002 or 2003 is the current vintage I think. The cheaper Shiraz-viognier is more commonly seen in the big chains, so be sure what you are buying.

If you want to try a few SA shiraz, there are probably quite a few other 2002 and 2004 SA reds that would fit your early-drinking requirement too, such as the Marius Simpatico Shiraz, O'Leary Walker Shiraz, Thorn Clarke Shiraz, Pennys Hill Shiraz 2004, good early-drinking cabernets at reasonable prices from 2002/2003 are fairly scarce, Coonawarra and MR had pretty tough vintages in those years.

Others may have more suggestions, particularly cabernets, I find the best cabernets I like these days are cellaring reds rather than early drinking, but if you want to pay a premium you may find some older ones on offer that have been cellared well. DM is featuring quite a few 99 and 2000 reds these days, but the prices are pretty high.

Thanks for everyone's comments.

Re. Drinking age: I currently have 4 bottles of 1990 Limestone Ridge 9although see the drinking window has past). However tasted it at the cellar door and I really liked it. Like LR and the Pyrus quite alot.

Also tasting wise, I quite like medium to full bodied wine, that aren't too oaky but has a smooth, long finish. Nothing too harsh, and alot of the time I drink the wine without food, so that smooth, silky feel important, i.e. no sharp tannin's. (sorry not exactly great at describing! )

Thanks again

Sorry, forgot to add, that during the Plonk Oz last month, two wines that I realy liked were the Majella and Katnook. If that helps re. types of wine. Didn't particularly like the Footbolt, found it too harsh.

Cheers

Red Bigot wrote:

mkcoleman wrote:.

I'd put a Majella 2003 Cab in there too, not their greatest effort, but still a good wine, if you like the 2003 then the newly released 2004 may suit you too. Avoid the Majella 2002 Shiraz though.

.

Hi Brian

Have you got around to trying the new Majella Cab yet? I notice theres nothing up on Rics site. Its usually a certain buy at the price anyways.

platinum wrote:

Red Bigot wrote:

mkcoleman wrote:.

I'd put a Majella 2003 Cab in there too, not their greatest effort, but still a good wine, if you like the 2003 then the newly released 2004 may suit you too. Avoid the Majella 2002 Shiraz though.

.

Hi Brian

Have you got around to trying the new Majella Cab yet? I notice theres nothing up on Rics site. Its usually a certain buy at the price anyways.

No, haven't had the opportunity yet, Prof didn't have it at Wine Oz, still trying to flog the remaining 2003's. I don't know if he sent Ric samples yet either. Ric and I are sharing a case anyway (from Gavin) based on track record and faith in Prof's recommendation of the vintage. Hey Gavin, when is it shipping?

Have a look on the Auswine site, Campbells reviews are there with the wines.

Glen

Red Bigot wrote:

platinum wrote:

Red Bigot wrote:

mkcoleman wrote:.

I'd put a Majella 2003 Cab in there too, not their greatest effort, but still a good wine, if you like the 2003 then the newly released 2004 may suit you too. Avoid the Majella 2002 Shiraz though.

.

Hi Brian

Have you got around to trying the new Majella Cab yet? I notice theres nothing up on Rics site. Its usually a certain buy at the price anyways.

No, haven't had the opportunity yet, Prof didn't have it at Wine Oz, still trying to flog the remaining 2003's. I don't know if he sent Ric samples yet either. Ric and I are sharing a case anyway (from Gavin) based on track record and faith in Prof's recommendation of the vintage. Hey Gavin, when is it shipping?

Stock is on way to me from Majella, so this week, hopefully be here tomorrow.

mkcoleman wrote:Sorry, forgot to add, that during the Plonk Oz last month, two wines that I realy liked were the Majella and Katnook. If that helps re. types of wine. Didn't particularly like the Footbolt, found it too harsh.

Cheers

So did I... and if the 2004 Majella is better... Gavin's got a pretty good price on it.

Knocked off a bottle of 2002 Patricia Shiraz on Saturday night - cracking good wine.

mkcoleman wrote:Sorry, forgot to add, that during the Plonk Oz last month, two wines that I realy liked were the Majella and Katnook. If that helps re. types of wine. Didn't particularly like the Footbolt, found it too harsh.

Cheers

Don't worry about not being able to describe it as you'd like, I think you're preferences are coming out reasonably well.
It seems Coonawarra is likely to be a happy hunting ground for you and from there I reckon it's worth stepping through other (slightly) cooler climate regions such as Margaret River and Yarra Valley, in preference to the Barossa, McClaren Vale, Rutherglen. Maybe leave the very cool climate wines alone for now as well.

I'd be tempted to look for wines such as Petaluma Coonawarra, Woodlands of Marg River, Balnaves and certainly the Howard Park wines you've listed as well as Majella/Katnook.

Alongside, maybe look for some decent quaffers for early drinking.

It's still worth investigating all the regions over time perhaps via public tastings or maybe using the Tasting notes (rather than scores) of Halliday/Oliver/here etc. to guess which wines may interest and then grab a mixed tasting case of them. Don't worry about being past Olivers drinking window on the Lindemans. Wine doesn't drop off a cliff after it peaks. Rather it starts losing some features and gains others. If his drinking window (possibly guessed a decade ago) is showing the wine as over the hill, yet it's not, then it's probably got you a better price for the wine! enjoy

regards

Ian

Ian,

Cheers for the additional info, all info greatly apreciated. Couple of quick questions.

1) What happens to the characteristics of the wine as you go from a warm climate to a cooler one as you describe? (Bigger, bolder wines??)

2) I did read that the 2002 Petaluma Cab Sav is v good, but needs a long time, thoughts?

3) If I was to stick with Connawarra, Margaret River, Yarra River, what vintages should I look out for and what ones should I steer clear of.

4) Final question, honest! What would you say are decent quaffers?? I read that Majella Musician, Seppelt Victorian are good examples. And others that spring to mind, in those warmer climates??

Thanks again to everyones comments

Notes added below

1) What happens to the characteristics of the wine as you go from a warm climate to a cooler one as you describe? (Bigger, bolder wines??). Yes very much that. Likewise in cooler the wines can be lighter and run the risk of "green" tastes coming in, some of which are ok (mint/herb/leafy/green pepper) but in excess can taste very poor. The footbolt is from a warmer region (McClaren Vale), with most of the others you're interested in being slightly cooler - hence a snap judgement, which it would be good to validate against any warmer climate wines you buy/taste. Jeremy Oliver describes the changes in flavour for cool/average/warm climate on various grapes at the front of his book and does it better than I could.

2) I did read that the 2002 Petaluma Cab Sav is v good, but needs a long time, thoughts? Petaluma is a pretty reliable producer and it's Coonawarra is highly regarded, but as you say it's one that ought to have a while in the cellar. It's not undrinkable now, but unless I had more than 4 or 5 of them, it would be a bit of a waste to open one now.

3) If I was to stick with Connawarra, Margaret River, Yarra River, what vintages should I look out for and what ones should I steer clear of. Coonawarra in 04 sounds good, and I think 05 came through OK. Prior to that 01 wasn't too shabby, wiht 99,98,96 being good earlier vintages.
Marg River was excellent in 01, but should be reasonable in subsequent vintages (barring 06 from the sound of it). Yarra - not sure. 2000 was certainly ok, but I'm not sure on recent vintages. Again Halliday/Oliver give much more detailed summaries. In general I'd be wary of 00 & 03 in the warmer regions and be wary of 02's in the cooler regions. Vintage ratings are a fairly broad brush though, so I tend to use them only to mark danger vintages out. I wouldn't want to give the impression they were anything more than a broad approximation with plenty of exceptions. Plenty of other regions and I also wouldn't want to prompt you into a smaller range than you'd want![/b]
4) Final question, honest! What would you say are decent quaffers?? I read that Majella Musician, Seppelt Victorian are good examples. And others that spring to mind, in those warmer climates?? [i]Yes, The Seppelt range seems to offer good value at every price level and I think the Victorian range is fine value. I've not had the Musician, but I know others have liked it. There was a thread a while back on under $20 wines, so worth a search on $20 or quaffers to find it.

Thanks again to everyones comments[/quote]

Sorry for caveating much of what I say, but I'm loathe to make definitive statements when it's never that clear cut.

have fun

Ian

Julio wrote:Knocked off a bottle of 2002 Patricia Shiraz on Saturday night - cracking good wine.

Welcome to the fan club. Not one for the oak-o-phobes, but has the fruit to cope and brilliant structure.

mkcoleman wrote:
2) I did read that the 2002 Petaluma Cab Sav is v good, but needs a long time, thoughts?

The 2002 Petaluma is the first I haven't bought in many years, I've tried it 5 times now (only once blind though) and always get a hard greenish tinge on the finish that lingers and makes this a non-buy for me.

mkcoleman wrote:3) If I was to stick with Connawarra, Margaret River, Yarra River, what vintages should I look out for and what ones should I steer clear of.

As far as generalities go:
Coonawarra - a pretty rough period in 2000, 2001, 2002, although I bought a few 2000 Cabs, they did better than the rest of SA. 2002 was particularly tough, the Penley reserve cab was the pick for my money. 2003 was a better vintage, but not a top one, 2004 looks like being very good on preliminary indications.

Margaret River - 1999 and 2001 are the recent standouts, 2002 and 2003 look pretty tough from those I've tried, I've bought very few from those vintages, again 2004 is looking good.

Yarra Valley - I think it depends more on the location of the vineyard and the maker for the Yarra, I've bought a few cabs from 2000 and 2002 that impressed.

As always, some makers will produce good wines from generally poor vintages and some generally good makers will produce duds from generally good vintages...

Brian and Ian thanks again.

I may well steer myself towards the 1998 / 1996 vintages for Coonawarra and 1999 & 2001 for Margaret River. If I can get hold of them.

I did read in J Oliver's book that he rates 2000 pretty good for Coonawarra, inparticular I was thinking about Katnook Cab Sav and the Majella Cab Sav and Shiraz. Or is it better sticking with '98 and '96?

Any thoughts on whether Katnook 01 Cab Sav is any good, or better to look for a different year.

Cheers

I had the Patricia a few weeks ago. Excellent wine to drink now (or put down for another 3 years). Nice Heathcote Shiraz.

Patricia Shiraz 2002 was such a potentialy great wine but with just a bit too much sweet American Oak for me.

Hi!! Majella 2002 Syrah is really a good buy. It's tasteful, round, nicely scented. I've tried it with red meat and with pasta too and it blended wonderfully well.

4) Final question, honest! What would you say are decent quaffers?? I read that Majella Musician, Seppelt Victorian are good examples. And others that spring to mind, in those warmer climates?? [i]Yes, The Seppelt range seems to offer good value at every price level and I think the Victorian range is fine value. I've not had the Musician, but I know others have liked it. There was a thread a while back on under $20 wines, so worth a search on $20 or quaffers to find it.

I have had the 04 Musician and up against a well-to-do (at the time) Hardys Tintara 1997 Shiraz and a Wynns 1999 White Label Shiraz, it more than stood out. Medium bodied, oaky without overbearing, brushes of eucalypt, almost a bit savoury in some respects. Very distinctive and very Coonawarra in character and have been meaning to pick up some more as it is good for the price, in my view.