The Auswine Forum

A dinner to celebrate the inaugural meeting of the SLDS (Sydney Label Drinkers Society) at the abode of Mark AS and wife Ingrid. This event commemorates the birth years (and years of conception) of our honourable founding members. Long live the labelistes!

1979 Krug Champagne
Mid gold. Slight mousse only. Not much of a pop! Beautiful rich and dense nose of honey botrytis, roasted almonds, toast and aldehydes. Palate is highlighted by great power and excellent length. Very acidic though with a deeply chalky finish and perhaps lacking finesse. Power without style. Not as good as the one shared with the Napoleon and DLo in Canberra but fresher than the 2nd bottle a couple of months ago. A lot of variation now despite identical cellaring conditions. Drink up!
91 /100

1984 Seppelt Eden Valley Maturation Release Riesling
Re-released circa 2000. Another Aussie legend. Light gold. Bouquet of beeswax, honeycomb, passionfruit, butter and toast – very complex. Palate however is a letdown: flabby, a bit thin and with acid-a-go-go! Not much on front and mid palate. Still drinkable but this is the 2nd bottle had in last 6 months and is on the decline.
84/100

1981 Trimbach Clos-Ste.-Hune Riesling
Light gold. Gorgeous nose that is so refined with plenty of finesse, focussed, steely, waxy, with dry acacia flowers. Palate is medium bodies. First impression was that it was short, but with time filled out. Strong front and mid palate. Lovely length. Superior structure that just got better and better. Lovely wine. My sort of riesling! But too expensive now, alas!
92 / 100

1963 Mildara “Peppermint Patty” Coonawarra Vintage Reserve Cabernet Sauvignon
Mid shoulder level. Mid red with clear bricking at rim. Bouquet opens with a touch of acetone, then ripe blackcurrants, leather, smoky herbs, and eucalypt. Amazing! Palate has lovely length and structure, with still sweet plums finishing off with a silky texture, super fine integrated tannins. Perhaps the most beautifully balanced and harmonious Aussie wine I have ever had. Just short of near perfection by some obtrusive acid poking out at end. A feminine wine, showing no signs of decline in the 50 minutes had it in my glass. This is why we cellar wine. Shared with a great bunch of people, it was a special occasion. Made the 70 Latour and Granges that followed seem clumsy and angular and awkward and one-dimensional! Truly great wine. Thanks to Napoleon for sourcing this!
96 / 100

1970 Chateau Latour
Deep red. Hints of brown. Astonishing colour really! Nose is deep with rich roasted nuts, blackfruits, vegetable garden. Quite awesome and unevolved. Palate is dry and earthy, brutish, almost aggressive in its power, with amazing tannins. Very masculine against the 63 Peppermint Patty with shorter finish. The best bottles are among the best ever wines I have ever had. This one wasn’t up to par, or perhaps suffered from coming after the sheer delight that was the Patty.
93 / 100

Then on to a bracket of 1979’s:

1979 Chateau Cheval Blanc
Light to medium red. Nose is a bit simple, showing some overt oak. Not a lot of fruit on palate and a bit past it IMO. Good, drinkable but the least of the 3 1979s. Never showed well from start. Tired.
83/100

1979 Chateau Margaux
Mid red. Deepest colour of 3. Quite rich nose and most youthful with moss, cherries and a high tone. Palate was initially mute and tannic, with abundant seaweed characters that nearly everyone picked up! Full palate with good length. Nicely balanced. Lacks weight to be great but got better and better.
89 / 100

24 hours later: much fuller and holding up well. Less tannic and lovely easy drinking. More Margaux-like!
90 / 100

1979 Chateau Trotanoy
Mid red. Slightly lighter than the Margaux. Lush and exotic nose from one of my favourite chateau’s. Some AV heat evident. Lush palate with very dry tannins, obfuscating the wine’s balance. A tough wine that fell apart after 30 minutes.
86 / 100

Blend of 1979 Cheval Blanc, LMHB and Trotanoy!
60% Cheval, 20% LMHB and 20% Trotanoy. Yes, I did it and guess what, it was the pretty schmick! Lovely integrated nose showing richness of Margaux with nice fruit. Palate was interesting, with tannins less noticeable than above wines, but lacking the definition of the Margaux.
87 / 100

Then a bracket of 1981’s:

1981 Chateau La Mission Haut-Brion
Dark red. Hint of brown. Nose is classic Bordeaux – graphite, cedar, rich blackfruits and earth. Palate very, very dry (akin to the 1985 LMHB we had at Tetsuya’s recently) and lacking fruit richness. Product of vintage. Simple and one dimensional. Not up to scratch or its reputation. Far too tannic.
85 / 100

1981 Chateau Haut-Brion
Lighter red than LMHB. Bouquet is like dipping your noggin in a vegemite jar, with tar, stewed veges and cooked fruit. Palate is short, tannic, yeasty and OTH. Very disappointing. Had a brilliant bottle about 15 months ago that we all thought was Grand cru burgundy such was its sweet, beguiling floral bouquet!
NR

1981 Tyrrell’s Vat 5 Shiraz (Hunter Valley)
Light red with brown meniscus. Nose of sweet spices and plum-like fruit. Far superior to the two Bordeaux’s but still not a lot of complexity. Palate is very good and held up well in glass. Nice and soft with elegant remnants of fruit. Good balance. A nice old wine that lacks development.
88 / 100

Then on to a series of five good to very good vintages of Grange (granted no great vintages). Usual crumbling corks. In summary, very disappointing: just too clumsy, big and lacking charm.

1977 Penfolds Grange Hermitage (sic)
Red, and quite murky. Nose initially was a bit mute but opened up with green capsicum, some coffee tones. Palate is very good, with very good length but has a slightly bitter finish from dusty tannins. Good texture. Very full and rich. My favourite of the Grange lot (compared all 5 bouquet-by-bouquet and palate-by-palate and always came back to this one for the length and balance. All the others were gibbering about the World Cup! 24 hours later: no signs of decline but hadn’t changed at all! The same wine.
88 / 100

1979 Penfolds Grange Hermitage (sic)
Mid red. Better clarity here. More acetone and oak evident here. Simple dark chocolate. Almost feral and touch gritty compared to others. Hints of nail varnish. Complex, but not in a good way. Palate remains very rich and dense. Length, whilst good, not up to 1977. more tannic and oakier too. A monolithic wine that screamed where the 1977 whispered.
87 / 100

1980 Penfolds Grange Hermitage (sic)
Mid red. Similar in colour to 1979. Deep and powerful nose but not showing the development of the 1979. AV lift more obvious too. Most “porty” of the set. Palate doesn’t have a lot of tannin, making the wine finish a touch dilute. Bit short. More red fruits (raspberry) spectrum than blackfruits of 1977 and 1979. Just not up to those two tonight, despite a truly great bottle had about 9 months ago which rated 94/100 9from my cellar).
85 / 100

1981 Penfolds Grange Hermitage (sic)
Mid red with some obvious browning. Very forward style with good fruit but weakest nose of the 5 given massive vanilla oak. Palate is very elegant and plush. Lacking in mid palate. Finishes very tannic but not as much as the 1977 or 1979. Very good but lacks weight and concentration.
86 / 100

1984 Penfolds Grange Hermitage (sic)
Less red than previous 4 vintages. More mute on the nose too. Then gentle blackfruits and liquorice galore! Palate is deeper than the 81 and better with good length. Very full bodied. Too much obvious oak however in this vintage. All angles – will it ever integrate? Who knows…
84 / 100

After this, the gang was getting a little restless and we probably should have stopped here. Napoleon was turbo-charging his way into “trash mode”, others were wandering about Mark’s house like lost souls from a Dostoevsky novel, and there were about 5 or 6 separate conversation going on and no one was really taking notice of what followed. Except me…coz they were my wines too!

1979 Chateau Musar
13.7%. Double decanted for 2 hours. Light to medium red. Clear bricking. Typical Musar nose of ham, salami, meats, acetone, VA, za’taar spices. Surprisingly very elegant palate, with lovely balance and length. Good concentration. Finishes with strong acidity. Excellent length. Very good wine. Will try remains tonight.
88 / 100

1977 Moulin Touchais
Recorked and re-released in 2005. 13.5%. Mid gold. Lovely clarity. Nose of apricot brandy, sulphur and peachy sweets. Palate has lots of obvious acid and good length. Pretty good overall considering weak vintage but mid sweet rather than luscious like sauternes. Not too cloying. Bit short. In an awkward state: not sure if it wants to remain primary or has developed prematurely. Rather like an oxidative young dessert wine.
86 / 100

1968 Hardy’s Vintage Port (sic)
Mid red. Slight bricking. Very nutty nose and lovely chocolatey sweetness. Touch of AV. Palate is pretty good with good length and ripeness. Tannins fully integrated so it finishes quite soft. Some alcohol heat detracts. Drinking very well. 24 hours later: no change!
87 / 100

At this point I was ready to opne a few more but as usual the rest were all weary!

Massive thanks to Mark and Ingrid for hosting at their home. Mark, great job in the kitchen too! Lucy is so lovely! A top night.

Baby Chickpea wrote:
91 /100



1963 Mildara “Peppermint Patty” Coonawarra Vintage Reserve Cabernet Sauvignon
Mid shoulder level. Mid red with clear bricking at rim. Bouquet opens with a touch of acetone, then ripe blackcurrants, leather, smoky herbs, and eucalypt. Amazing! Palate has lovely length and structure, with still sweet plums finishing off with a silky texture, super fine integrated tannins. Perhaps the most beautifully balanced and harmonious Aussie wine I have ever had. Just short of near perfection by some obtrusive acid poking out at end. A feminine wine, showing no signs of decline in the 50 minutes had it in my glass. This is why we cellar wine. Shared with a great bunch of people, it was a special occasion. Made the 70 Latour and Granges that followed seem clumsy and angular and awkward and one-dimensional! Truly great wine. Thanks to Napoleon for sourcing this!
96 / 100

1970 Chateau Latour
Deep red. Hints of brown. Astonishing colour really! Nose is deep with rich roasted nuts, blackfruits, vegetable garden. Quite awesome and unevolved. Palate is dry and earthy, brutish, almost aggressive in its power, with amazing tannins. Very masculine against the 63 Peppermint Patty with shorter finish. The best bottles are among the best ever wines I have ever had. This one wasn’t up to par, or perhaps suffered from coming after the sheer delight that was the Patty.
93 / 100

Interesting, I had these two wines up against each other too some 8 years back.

As the night evolved, first one, then the other, came to the fore, with probably about even over the evening, though 'even' is a funny word for two stellar wines.

My thoughts then were that the Latour would keep on improving, and the Peppermint Patty not, but on this showing I may well be wrong?

Wow, good bottles of Patty though are quite simply world class in anyone's language, and amongst the best wines this taster has tried!

Drinking history again.

Thank you at least for the notes.

Adair

Danny,

Your wine collection and tasting notes never ceases to amaze me.
You could have almost placed a deposit on a flat had you sold the wines that were consumed over that dinner. But.... I'd rather drink them too.

You gave the Patty a 96/100 and as per your notes,

Perhaps the most beautifully balanced and harmonious Aussie wine I have ever had.

Q. What is the highest score you have given a wine and which one was it? and I recall once that you wrote that you will never judge a wine as a 100 pt wine, is this still the case ?

Hi Gianna, plenty of wines score 96-99 over past 15 years including TBA's from Germany from 1945, 1959 and 1971 and 1976, d'Yquems from 1967, 1975, 1st (and super 2nd) growth bordeauxs from many vintages like 1982, many more...

Gianna

I score anything my friends like 100 points, sometimes more. Its cheaper that way to drink 95-100 point wines, it almost can become a weekly experience!!! I tried at least 5x 100 point wines in the weekend.

Not like Danny, he can only just dream of drinking 95-100 point wines that frequently, poor guy drinking all those 'low 90' pointer wines, i feel sorry for him. I tend to add all my 90 point and below wines to the cooking. As I do I often think of those less fortunate than myself that make an entire night out of actually drinking just plain old 90 point wines.

Some of us have standards

1979 Krug Champagne
There is a very fine bead on this but not much mousse. Orange peel, honey, almond, some oxidative characters and some toast. Compared to the bottle we had at Marque earlier in the year I thought it was lacking the flavour concentration on the palate that endeared me to the previous bottle. For me, the palate had a slightly odd sweet and sour element battle being waged.
90/100

1984 Seppelt Eden Valley Maturation Release Riesling
Opens with passion fruit, lime, floral touches and some toast on the nose. Palate is simple and lacks definition. A nice enough wine, but certainly not living up to reputation.
86/100

1981 Trimbach Clos-Ste.-Hune Riesling
A shimmering light gold colour. My first sniff straight out of the bottle was not promising - very sulphurous, but given some air time, I felt that it really started to open up with wax, straw, petrol and citrus emerging. The palate was where the class and finesse of this wine really shone through though - super balance, style, structure and length! Might be one of the few '81s that will stick around for my 30th birthday
92/100

1963 Mildara “Peppermint Patty” Coonawarra Vintage Reserve Cabernet Sauvignon
This was low to mid shoulder in level. There were a series of approving noises being made about the medium garnet colour of this while it was being poured into the decanter. There was just a slight tinge of brick-red around the edges in the glass. What an amazing set of aromas it produced - smoke, leather, blackcurrant, dried flowers, a slight mulchy element, caramel, vanilla and even a touch of peppermint leading into eucalyptus. A superbly balanced, multi-layered palate with breathtaking length.

This was a very special experience. Thanks to Neville for providing.
98/100

1970 Chateau Latour
The nose is deep and rich with graphite, menthol, roasted meats, blackcurrant and some mulchy and cheesy characters. The palate is youthful and shows aggressive tannins along with reasonably good length. Didn't live up to reputation and probably suffered from coming after the legendary Peppermint Patty. 92/100

1979 Chateau Cheval Blanc
This wine was poured along with the story of Gen proclaiming to SWM earlier in the day that she was unready to die as she had not yet tasted Cheval Blanc - this gained her immediate entry into the highest order of the label drinker society. Initially the nose is pretty decent, some violets, cherry, spice and florals but these seemed to disappear quickly to be dominated by band-aid aromas. Palate wasn't great from the start with a lack of fruit resulting in a thin, sharp and short palate. Gen might have to continue living for just a bit longer yet.
80/100

1979 Chateau Margaux
This was the best of the three 79s that we tried. Nose shows great character with liquorice, cassis, cedar, pencil shavings, raspberry and violets. A good length palate that has aggressive tannins coming in over the top and disrupting the flow somewhat.
90/100

1979 Chateau Trotanoy
My first Trotanoy. Aromas of sea salt and brine, iodine and briary characters. The palate showed little to generate any excitement and started heading out of balance and downhill shortly after being poured.
86/100

1981 Chateau La Mission Haut-Brion
A nose of cedar, graphite, pencil shavings, violets, earth and some meats. The palate is a disappointment that lets the wine down – entirely austere and overly tannic.
85/100

1981 Chateau Haut-Brion
Cooked, spoiled, yeasty, oxidised ... totally stuffed basically.
NR

1981 Tyrrell’s Vat 5 Shiraz (Hunter Valley)
A lifted floral nose with cinnamon, raspberry, chocolate, plums and tobacco. The palate shows good balance and plenty of sweet fruit but perhaps pulls up a little bit short and lacks complexity. Regardless, it is a good wine from a less than stellar vintage in many areas of the red wine world and was the best of the flight of 81s.
90/100

1977 Penfolds Grange
Aromas of rhubarb, violets, some smoked meats and a touch of VA. Lovely aged complexity as well as rich fruits on the palate along with great length and good balance. Pretty close to its peak I would think.
92/100

1979 Penfolds Grange Hermitage
A fairly imposing nose with vanilla oak, caramel, chocolate, liquorice, raspberry, VA and tar. Palate showed very good length but was lacking in anything much else to get excited about.
90/100

1980 Penfolds Grange Hermitage
Lots of dried herbs and tea leaves on the nose as well as raspberry and redcurrant. The palate was simple, short, one dimensional and lacked structure.
85/100

1981 Penfolds Grange Hermitage
Oak, ground coffee beans, some nuttiness, sweet fruits and a smidge of VA. Palate is youthful, with reasonably good length but again some clumsy tannins on the finish throw off the balance of the wine.
89/100

1984 Penfolds Grange Hermitage
Nose is fairly simple at this stage with a fair bit of vanilla oak, blueberry and blackberry. Palate shows some youthful richness but it is ultimately too oaky and there is some bitterness on the finish. Based on this bottle I would be giving it more time, but I'm not entirely convinced that it will come into balance.
87/100

1979 Chateau Musar
A cloudy ruby colour. Earth, ash, VA, spice and smoked delicatessen meats on the nose. The palate has abundant style! Medium bodied, good balance, great length. This was my first Musar, and hopefully not the last.
91/100

1977 Moulin Touchais
Slightly oxidative nose with sour apples, ripe pear, lemon and butterscotch. Too much acid causing the palate to look disjointed and a bit short.
86/100

1968 Hardy’s Vintage Port
Has a caramel, toffee and nutty nose. Palate is fine - pretty good balance and seems reasonably fresh but there isn't any real depth or complexity.
87/100

Great and enjoyable notes. Nice to read about the Patty... I was of the impression that most of her was pretty well over the hill, but obviously some good bottles still chugging along.

Very impressive night guys. Opportunities to drink the PP are fast running out. Glad it was drunk by appreciative fans.

What was the aim of the Peppermint Patty when it was made? By this I mean was it a one off wine or just an outstanding Vintage of a regularly made wine? Do the Vines still exist and if so by Mildara?

Danny/Cam

Grange always has a reputation to live up to but several aged wines have dissappointed me in the past. However this has been more a problem of wine storage than vintage. Were these wines stored well all their lives? Seems like there might be some doubt, at least for the '80 from Danny's note.

Mike

Wow wow wow I gather you have to pay for these nights? Or do you just have to bring along a very nice wine?

platinum wrote:What was the aim of the Peppermint Patty when it was made? By this I mean was it a one off wine or just an outstanding Vintage of a regularly made wine? Do the Vines still exist and if so by Mildara?

.a great question, and one that has been asked countless times. As far as I understand, the wine is simply the product of the same vines that are in use today, though they were much younger back then. Production not much different to today's amount. A freak wine from young vines, never to be repeated. Standard bottling.

..other stories include this as being a "special" bin, although nothing on the bottle would support that

..I have had the wine about 20 times over the past 25 years. On two occasions, I would count it as the greatest wine I have ever had. Period. Virtually all the other occasions it has shown as sensational (98-100pts), and I would think well-stored bottles have 15-20 years to go. Just a staggering wine, and at its best, is sooo far ahead of any other Aussie wine, and I have had them all.

..interestingly, some of the world's greatest wines have come from baby vines... the first La La's from Guigal were made from vines less than 10 yeares old, and the 61 La Chapelle is said to have come from a mix of old and, incredibly, 25% vines less than five years old!!

platinum wrote:What was the aim of the Peppermint Patty when it was made? By this I mean was it a one off wine or just an outstanding Vintage of a regularly made wine? Do the Vines still exist and if so by Mildara?

1963 was the first vintage of this wine and it is still in production although I don't think any other vintages are as highly regarded.

I know that Mildara went through significant financial troubles in the 70s and it wouldn't surprise me if the vines are no longer held by them, but I do not know if they still exist.

Does anyone know more about the history behind this as I would like to know as well.

KMP wrote:Danny/Cam

Grange always has a reputation to live up to but several aged wines have dissappointed me in the past. However this has been more a problem of wine storage than vintage. Were these wines stored well all their lives? Seems like there might be some doubt, at least for the '80 from Danny's note.

Mike

Mike,

Some doubt on storage for some of these - some were auction purchases, maybe Danny can identify which ones were from auction.

Langers wrote:Wow wow wow I gather you have to pay for these nights? Or do you just have to bring along a very nice wine?

Langers,

Everyone just brings a nice bottle of wine or two (or three). I haven't yet met a more generous group of people than wine lovers in my life.

camw wrote:

platinum wrote:What was the aim of the Peppermint Patty when it was made? By this I mean was it a one off wine or just an outstanding Vintage of a regularly made wine? Do the Vines still exist and if so by Mildara?

1963 was the first vintage of this wine and it is still in production although I don't think any other vintages are as highly regarded.

I know that Mildara went through significant financial troubles in the 70s and it wouldn't surprise me if the vines are no longer held by them, but I do not know if they still exist.

Does anyone know more about the history behind this as I would like to know as well.

It was probably a later victim of production volume increases. There were also some other blended wines made, with similar labels, which may have cannibalised quality material to stretch it further. Interestingly, a few years ago I helped at deceased cellar 'stocktake' and there were a couple of bottles of the 63 sitting there, together with some later vintages. They looked in very good condition, and I stupidly (although honestly) advised the owner of their probable worth, thus ensuring their survival. The later vintages, being less famous, went under the corkscrew as follows (notes taken in 2002):

Slightly more prestigious wines were available from the same producer. We also tasted 1966 and 1967 Mildara Coonawarra Cabernet Shiraz Malbec [white label]. The 67 had gone to VA land, but the 66 was just holding together, if acid dominated. This was drinkable, but only at the end of a very long evening when most of the guests would be past noticing!

Mildara’s flagship wine, again with two vintages for sampling, was the 1966 and 1967 Mildara Coonawarra Cabernet Sauvignon. Here even the 67 was passable, with some stewed fruit, lots of acid, but a faint wisp of tannin just remaining. The finish was short, but it was alive. The 66 was a real wine. Very gentle, soft & aged, with velvety tannins keeping the balance just together. Quite pleasant, in context. Could certainly be served at the end of a meal, as a curio, perhaps. Levels on these two bottles were just below the neck, so vintage variation was presumably the difference between them. I suspect the untried 63s would be very good.

It wouldn't surprise me if those two 63s did eventually finish up at auction. The cellar wasn't great - at least in terms of keeping wine for 40 years - being essentially passive under a large stone house in Sydney's eastern suburbs, although I may have got a skewed picture by virtue of the fact we only opened the lowest-level bottles on the day to get a sense of how things stood.

Kinda wish I'd said nothing about the 63s - I'd have almost certainly got to try one...

cheers,
Graeme

Some good info here ... and I'm very interested in the history of the PP.

As far as I am aware, all the Granges were from auction. I know those from my cellar have shown much better, esp, the 1977 and 1980 which I have had recently.