Points collectors alive and well on e-bob

Ian S · Post by **Ian S** » Sun Jun 04, 2006 7:31 am

I occasionally browse the squires/ebob forum, though I'd never join due to the quality (sic) of the moderation amongst other failings.

This tickled me, as the guy was complaining about how all the (Robert Parker rated presumably) 90+ point wines were so expensive and how he'd focussed on buying 90+ point wines. I'll leave a quote and the link. Hope you enjoy the lack of logic of how this problem has occurred :lol:

I have been drinking wine for many years and in 2005 I started a cellar. My goal was to purchase enough wine to enjoy in my older years after I turn 60. These bottles would be for holidays and special occasions. The cellar is split almost evenly between Bordeaux and Burgundy and I focused on 90 and up ratings. The cellar has about 50pct of wines rated 94 and higher with the highest rated wine being 98.

http://dat.erobertparker.com/bboard/sho ... 69&t=95056

Ian

AstonM · Post by **AstonM** » Sun Jun 04, 2006 12:11 pm

What's your point?

there were alot of replys speaking of the need to not bother with high cost or scores. ?

we all start somewhere, some start with looking for high scores, like the guy that buys a Ferrari for the sake of owning one because he is a million aire... who cares?

seems to me parker bashing is as vogue as stupid ring tones. same as wine spectator bashing for ebob members. it gets old fast.

Drink wine and be happy for god sakes.

Mark G · Post by **Mark G** » Sun Jun 04, 2006 12:25 pm

Ye gawds this is hilarious, thanks Ian for the link. In the land of the twee an american has just resolved that high posting Parker wines that he covets ahead of all is actually more expensive that wine with lower Parker scores. Golly what a genius ... but don't fret the BB is rallying with cheaper 95-96 point bargains, huzzah!!

"Drink wine and be happy for god sakes" ... AstonM (I assume you are a car?) - this is exactly what the poster, Ian pointed out, is not doing.

This is just sublime ....

Cheers

Mark G

Davo · Post by **Davo** » Sun Jun 04, 2006 1:15 pm

Had a read for the hell of it. I haven't lurked on that board for over 12 months now and it was interestting to see that little had changed except the interior decoration. Pro Bob fanatics interspersed with the voices of reason.

GRB · Post by **GRB** » Sun Jun 04, 2006 1:28 pm

What you should do is use a range of reviewers not just RPJ, then take the best scores from each reviewer to get the average points / bottle in your cellar that way your wine will taste much better :shock:

Glen

Wizz · Post by **Wizz** » Sun Jun 04, 2006 5:21 pm

AstonM wrote:What's your point?

there were alot of replys speaking of the need to not bother with high cost or scores. ?

we all start somewhere, some start with looking for high scores, like the guy that buys a Ferrari for the sake of owning one because he is a million aire... who cares?

seems to me parker bashing is as vogue as stupid ring tones. same as wine spectator bashing for ebob members. it gets old fast.

Drink wine and be happy for god sakes.

I have a bit of $100+ wine. I have tried most of these and I like them. Thats why I have them. I have also tried some very highly rated wines including Parker 100 pointers that I thought were dreadful. These were also $100+ wines. I don't own any of these.

So which ones did this guy buy - the likeable ones or the non likeable ones?

The Ferrari analogy - so do you choose to buy a Ferrari before you learn to drive?

You choose to defend with:

AstonM wrote:Drink wine and be happy for god sakes.

Funny, thats not what this guy is doing, and exactly what is gving us all a laugh.

You mention Parker bashing - can you point it out to me?

Craig(NZ) · Post by **Craig(NZ)** » Sun Jun 04, 2006 7:49 pm

I found that post a good read, people surprisingly polite, some good points, a few wise heads

There is a place to grab/ try a few highly rated wines. it is part of the game. 5% of wine must be bought with the heart without too much consideration of cost.

However, you have to like the wine you buy whether a superstar or a qpr great. Developing a palate is what it is all about. For starters you tend to need direction but after years in the game you realise your palate is the best critic you know

"I have spent too much money (even on inexpensive) highly rated wines before realising I actually dont like them, points don't taste of much..."

Wise words. To me a highly rated wine is one that appeals to a wide variety of palates. I stock up on wines that my non wine drinking mates are astounded by, but that the wine geek also appreciates. Some wines are a aquired taste. I love the few that everyone apreciates.

Ian S · Post by **Ian S** » Sun Jun 04, 2006 8:41 pm

AstonM wrote:What's your point?

there were alot of replys speaking of the need to not bother with high cost or scores. ?

Aston
To be fair to you, I've just had another look at the e-bob thread and accept that there's a few decent replies along those lines (I noticed the thread on something like the 3rd post).

However others have picked up on the point I was making that someone has spent a lot of money buying wine that they may not like, mostly based on someone else's palate and now complain how expensive it is. What is more ludicrous is thta the guy said he'd been drinking for years and then ignored his own palate to go points chasing :roll:

. For me it perfectly incapsulates the insanity of the points chasers and I found the guys lack of logic very amusing.

RP bashing? More a case of accusing his sheep-like followers of not trusting their own palates and (literally) paying for it. Based on this evidence the prosecution rests it's case m'lud

Drink (RP annointed) wine and be happy :lol:

Ian

AstonM · Post by **AstonM** » Mon Jun 05, 2006 1:14 am

I'm in a bit of a quandary, I agree with most of you but not. That guy was a fool for doing what he did, I agree.

I'v been going to both Ebob and here for many years(im'a leerker)
there are plenty of people on ebob that don't give a rats butt about his scores and say so on a regular basis. personaly I feel he misses the mark on Oz wine so I ignore his 95+ pointers here (marquis philips comes to mind)

I guess I'm a little jumpy It seems nearly every board I go to theres posts bashing people from one to the other, it gets old.

and Mark G, it's better that I use AstonM(an old alias) than my real name since the original poster and I have the same initials

less confusion.

- Ian Selph

Ian S · Post by **Ian S** » Mon Jun 05, 2006 2:11 am

Ian
Thanks for the reply.

Sadly it's minority of bigoted, aggressive postings on E-bob that take away from the remaining posters. I enjoy WLDG, Auswine, Winestar and Wine pages forums, all moderated with a light fair touch. For e-bob the moderation is at times worse than the rest of the community (it seems we both lurk and perhaps it's the same annoyances that preclude us from registering?). I agree that it's dangerous for one community to constantly bash another and my intention was a little fun poking as I found it amusing myself.

I tend to use e-bob for views and TN's on Italian wines, but tend to switch off when the ego's turn up. It's probably a once a fortnight snapshot for me.

p.s. Have you read TORB's recent article on Oz wines and the Oz wines thread on WLDG. I think both are interesting takes on the WS/Parker/retailers hype of a particular style of wine.

regards

Ian Sutton

AstonM · Post by **AstonM** » Mon Jun 05, 2006 2:53 am

I'm not familiar with WLDG? but I do read TORBs site.
My preferred place for TN's is actually Cellartracker and it's the only place I post TN's, I like the whole community data base that is being built upon daily.

what gets me is, if you ask any serious wine drinker they will all say that Your own preference in taste is all that matters and everyone is different, then that very same person will say how wine critic so-and-so is sooo wrong for rating a wine higher than he thought it was worth? to each his own i guess.
:roll:

Ian S · Post by **Ian S** » Mon Jun 05, 2006 5:01 am

AstonM wrote:My preferred place for TN's is actually Cellartracker and it's the only place I post TN's, I like the whole community data base that is being built upon daily.

Yup, it's getting that way, mostly as it's just so easy to search for TN's.

AstonM wrote: what gets me is, if you ask any serious wine drinker they will all say that Your own preference in taste is all that matters and everyone is different, then that very same person will say how wine critic so-and-so is sooo wrong for rating a wine higher than he thought it was worth? to each his own i guess.

yes, this does happen doesn't it!

Ratcatcher · Post by **Ratcatcher** » Mon Jun 05, 2006 9:59 pm

Aston, the irony is that the person is complaining that high point wines are getting expensive but he is the one driving up the prices by going for the high point wines just because they are high point wines.

Buy whatever wines you want but don't be surprised that highly rated wines are going up in price when you are part of the reason for it

I assume you get that but I don't think it's been stated clearly.

GraemeG · Post by **GraemeG** » Tue Jun 06, 2006 9:16 am

These 'points' really are a fetish, aren't they? They're so valuable because they tell you which wine the critic 'liked best'. Apparently that's a vitally important piece of information. :?:

I don't understand why it's so important which wine a critic liked best. Are you going to have his palate transplanted into your head when you drink wine?

I'm perfectly happy for the critic to tell me about the wine. Tell me about the fruit, the acid (chucked in at the vat, was it?), the body, the finish. The oak, the tannins. Tell me all you can identify and quantify, from your years of experience as a critic. Tell me that the 2004 vintage reminds you of the 1991 vintage at this same age in it's life. Tell me from the vertical tasting that this estate's wines from the late eighties seemed to lose freshness, and are not drinking at all well now compared to those from the seventies and the nineties.

Now if you're such an egotist to imagine that it's so important for us to know you 'liked' the 98 vintage best of all (by virtue of your giving it 97 points, whereas nothing else was worth more than 95), fine go ahead. But that's really all it is. Ego. Well, ego, combined with the apparent need to fit in with all the other critics whose ego's are jostling over "who liked which wine best". That is what's being rated, isn't it?

"Of course I give points. It's important for other people to know which wine I liked best."

Really :evil:

regards,
Graeme

Michael McNally · Post by **Michael McNally** » Tue Jun 06, 2006 11:22 am

Graham

Ease up, mate :shock:

!! I am not necessarily a fan of points, but critics who use them are an easy target. The critics are just doing what we do: assessing a wine; describing it as best they can; evaluating it according to some criteria; and expressing their opinion. Yes many use points, but many 'amateurs' on this site also do so. You can imagine how a newspaper or magazine editor would react to a system proposed by a critic of "Crap, Not Bad, Pretty Good, Good, Very Good, Really Really Good, and Excellent". This is my system, but I do not think it would sell papers

.

I guess my point is don't blame the critics for the behaviour of the people who read their reviews. If a recognised critic says "this is a must buy" (something I have seen a number of times on this forum) they are not demanding their readers go out and buy it, they are trying to communicate how much they like the wine or it's price point. If other people translate that to "I must buy", that is their problem.

Yes the readers' behaviour impacts negatively on those people who would buy these wines anyway. But, what system of wine review can you imagine that would not lead to similar behaviour in readers? They would just go hunting for the "Really, Really Good" and "Excellent" wines.

My 2c

Michael

Roscoe · Post by **Roscoe** » Tue Jun 06, 2006 1:08 pm

I think it is only natural for almost everone who really likes a particular wine to encourage others to try it. It is a way of sharing the experience, which heightens the overall pleasure.
I won't do points for publication, but I love to tell others about wine I've really liked for this reason. I think critics do have to say how much they like a wine and comment on overall quality. I can hardly imagine one surviving long if he/she did not commit him/herself on the aspect of quality.
Given the vagaries of human nature, points-chasing and trophy collecting is just an inevitable by-product of this. :roll:

GraemeG · Post by **GraemeG** » Tue Jun 06, 2006 1:14 pm

Michael McNally wrote: But, what system of wine review can you imagine that would not lead to similar behaviour in readers? They would just go hunting for the "Really, Really Good" and "Excellent" wines.

Well, at least you'd be spared the pitiful sight of someone saying "I bought a hundred wines that Robert M Tanzer MW rated as Really, Really Good-and-a-half on average" :roll:

cheers,
Graeme

Partagas · Post by **Partagas** » Tue Jun 06, 2006 3:07 pm

If it's just for enjoying the wine as it improves over the years for future drinking, then trust your palette over any opinion. If it is for collecting as a hobby and or investment, then Mr Parker and co are the benchmark. I have seen wines vertualy double in price the next vintage because he has rated it 95+.

Baby Chickpea · Post by **Baby Chickpea** » Tue Jun 06, 2006 3:17 pm

Just noticed in last few weeks even Huon Hooke has started marking wines out of 100. Unfortunately he seems to have a bad dose of Halliday-itis with mid-90 point scores left, right and centre!! :wink:

Andrew Jordan · Post by **Andrew Jordan** » Tue Jun 06, 2006 3:59 pm

Baby Chickpea wrote:Just noticed in last few weeks even Huon Hooke has started marking wines out of 100. Unfortunately he seems to have a bad dose of Halliday-itis with mid-90 point scores left, right and centre!!

Yessss ... take for example Huon's review in today's SMH's Good Living of the 2003 Penfolds Bin 407. A massive 95/100. Hey I'm no expert but this wine was definitely not even a 90 pointer when I tasted it on release!

But hey ... everybody has a different palate.

Craig(NZ) · Post by **Craig(NZ)** » Tue Jun 06, 2006 8:27 pm

Maybe it was a misprint. Maybe he has followed my lead and is rating out of 109 points - the king of rating systems