Powdery tannins?

[simon]

What is meant by this term? It seems to be popping up in more and more tasting notes, whereas a few years ago I can't remember tannins being described as powdery.
Also, I hear tannins being described as 'resolved' which I can't get my head around.
Do these terms have to do with the degree of astrigency or dryness that the tannins impart to the wine?

[winetastic]

I have read and used the term "powdery" to describe tannins a fair few times, I guess to me it means they feel similar to say flour in the mouth? Other ways to describe the feel might include silky, fine or puckering.

[Jay60A]

I think that the term resolved with tannins is more do do with the balance between the fruit and tannins. Over time the tannins (should) fade enough to give the wine power and structure without the mouth-puckering effect while the fruit should (ideally) continue to shine supported by sufficient fresh acidity. Resulting in the balance of a glorious wine (occasionally!).

At least that's the theory. In some cases the fruit is simply not there or the tannins are too much. In which case after 15-20 years you have a wine with little fruit and iron-like tannins. 1984 and 1988 Taltarnis anyone? I think 1976 Bordeaux was like this, thought initially to be a great vintage to cellar but simply the tannins swamped the fruit and they never made great wine.

Now someone go ahead and tell me the 1984/8 Taltanis's (eventually) became classics ... then I'll be glum!

Cheers -- Jay

[roughred]

Good question.....I think it is often easy to acknowledge and interpret common tasting terms such as powdery, but harder to articulate them. Powdery tannins to me are fine and drying, and relate more to the texture they create in the wine. Dusty tannins are fine and drying, but without the textural elements. Chalky tannins are similarly fine, but drier and more astringent (all IMO)

Resolved tannins I can fathom, in that the tannins have resolved the issues they once had with the rest of the wine, and have decided to join the party, rather than stand alone.

A lot of the yankee terms can be hard to grasp. Finally got my head around retro-nasal and hang time. People often throw 'ozone' into a tasting note - all I can relate this to is hydrogen peroxide, perhaps it is hairdressers making these notes.

Any other curly one's people have come across?

[becuta]

Check this link, there are very interesting informtaions related to Powdery Tannins:

http://support007.com/find.php?value=Powdery+tannins

best regards

[Nayan]

Any other curly one's people have come across?

Crushed ants is one that still gets me.

Not sure if that means I had a well adjusted childhood, or not.

[Mike Hawkins]

Nayan - tread on a heap of ants and you will smell formic (from memory) acid. Nothing like sacrificing life in the name of wine appreciation....

[Craig(NZ)]

screw the theory

try 04 wolf blass yellow label cab

there you will see a good cheap wine with powdery tannin

[GRB]

This topic has me thinking (dangerous I know), listening to a few wine makers and tasting a lot of current wines the trend seems to be for less tanins in the wine on release to make it more approachable in its youth to the instant gratification generation. Now if my fading memory serves me correctly a lot of wines from the 80's and 90's had far more gripping tanins on release and it was my understanding that this is one character that was required for the wine to age. Wynns BL being a classic example of this. Now the wine makers are still saying their wines will age gracefully as they have done in the past but I am curiuos what others think on this topic. Is the lack of tanin in wine these days going to result in a lot more dissapointments from the cellar in 10 years time? As much as I like the current fruit driven wines in their youth I adore the aged characters that come from time in the cellar, is this a thing of the past for Aus wine?

Glen

[roughred]

Let's open up the argument and throw synthetic tannins and micro-oxygentaion into the mix. Micro has a pronounced effect in softening a wine and hastening it's development, and the array of synthetic tannins available some years ago was mind boggling - by now there must be plenty more.

Anyone have any opinions on how prevalent these practises would be in the budget end of the market? And how would it differ today compared to 5-6 years ago?

LL

[Alex F]

Is the lack of tanin in wine these days going to result in a lot more dissapointments from the cellar in 10 years time?
Glen

In my limited wine experience, it seems like cheaper and cheaper wines are more and more drink now types, not worth extended cellaring, take koonunga hill for example.

It seems like the ones that can be cellared are getting more and more expensive.

[TORB]

Let's open up the argument and throw synthetic tannins and micro-oxygentaion into the mix. Micro has a pronounced effect in softening a wine and hastening it's development, and the array of synthetic tannins available some years ago was mind boggling - by now there must be plenty more.

Anyone have any opinions on how prevalent these practises would be in the budget end of the market? And how would it differ today compared to 5-6 years ago?

LL

LL,

Good question. If a wine does not have a good balance of tannins, acid and fruit it can not age gracefully. If there are minimal tannins, then it can't last.

As far as synthetic tannins, the majority of red wine has tannin added at the crusher/fermentation stage and if it is done correctly, the consumer should not be able to tell.

I am not sure what you mean by "synthetic" as to the best of my knowledge (and I could be wrong) the additive is made from grape skins anyway, so they are "nataural."

Mox is interesting: it sure makes the wine more approachable in its youth, which is an advantage to the vast majority of drinkers, but the downside is that the wine will mature far faster.

Mox is becoming far more common, and its not just at the budget end of the market.