The Auswine Forum

Does anyone know a good website which gives an introduction to understanding french wines (especially labels, appelations and regions etc) and also having vintage reports from the last century...

I've got the wine encyclopedia (the big one that's contributed to by the major wine writers (I think?)) is this any good? I guess I really should be reading it to find out huh?

Anyway my question pertains to whether any of the sub 30$ french wines on the Langtons auction tomorrow is even worth considering. I am particularly looking at some wines from the 90s, but also some much older ones... like 80s and 70s...

Should I just stay away until I am prepared (and can afford) to spend more?

Thanks guys.

There are many good books available on French Wines. Jancis Robinson and Clive Coates are two good source on French Wines.

French Wines do have greater vintage variation then Australian wine especially in the lower end of the scale and is region dependant.

Generally I don't bother with these wine from langtons, but it is just my personal opinion. Are these wine listed in Langtons from Bordeaux or Burgundy or other regions?

thanks for your reply...

I don't know... don't know what counts as bordeaux and what doesn't Why can't it all just make sense like Australian wine

Alex,

A couple of good books to start with are Alexis Lichine's " Wines of France", and Andrew Jefford's "The New France". A before and after view on the way of things over there.

Not sure of any web-sites that would offer the same detail. If you want to learn heaps about Burgundy then subscribing to "Burghound" is probably the best way to go, very detailed and informative.

Cheers

Alex,
The Robinson/Johnson atlas is excellent, even if just for the Burgundy maps, whih I'm sure are the justification for the book! But perhaps a better understanding of the French ystem could be gained by buying the new edition of Tom Stevenson's Sotheby's Wine Encyclopedia (with the mostly black cover). Reasonably good maps, and comprehensive coverage of French ACs with varieties and better producers listed. Terrific listings of Bordeaux producers too. Less depth than Jefford, but greater breadth. And has the advantage of covering the rest of the world in similarly enlightening detail; the German Beriech/Grosslage/Einzellage structure easily laid out, for example. Thoroughly recommended.
regards,
Graeme

Both the Larousse and Sotheby's encyclopaedias are pretty good - I've got them both and often reference various bits and pieces. They've a massive bias towards old world - mostly France.

If you want more detailed information, Parker's book Bordeaux is very comprehensive, as is some website with a year in the name and a pink-ish colour theme... but I forget the URI at the moment.

Alex F wrote:Should I just stay away until I am prepared (and can afford) to spend more?

Alex, I would definitely stay away until you are reasonably confident you know what you are doing. There should never be any rush to get into French wine. If you want to spend your money in the best possible way, you will hasten slowly.
Others can give better advice than me on resources. It may be better to learn about French wine styles initially that relate to your taste in Australian wines. e.g. If you like shiraz, look at the Rhone region etc. You probably have already thought of that.
My perception, as a predominantly Australian wine drinker, is that you do have to spend quite a bit of money to get better quality French than Australian wine. Below $100/bottle in Australia, Australian wine generally is higher quality compared to French wine on a dollar for dollar basis, according to my tastes. But of course that depends on your palate.

I fully agree with the recommendation for the Johnson/Robinson Wine Atlas. Personally, I am not overwhelmed by Mr Parker's "Rulebook for Winedrinkers". As for French wines and their prices (mind you I am based in Europe, so that may make some difference): you get what you bargain for. It is possible to get very nice (that is a BIG very) Bordeaux for somewhere between AUD 20 and 40. Personally, it is the variety that I like. Good Australian wine is not by definition cheaper than good French wine. But if you go for the "first growths", then other rules apply.
An example: Chateau Belgrave (Haut Medoc), a bit of the uggly duckling of Bordeaux. Fifth Growth, but the estate has known some difficult times. Back on track for a number of years now and retailing for around AUD 30-35. Absolutely worth it, classical Bordeaux with all that it stands for. First reports of 2005 very promissing (see jancis online).
Also look at what is happening in the Cote du Rhone and the Languedoc. Fascinating and the prices are very reasonable.
The other thing to remember is that other than in most "new world" countries, the quality varies significantly from one year to the next (e.g. as a result of the ban on irrigation in most parts of Europe)
Goodluck!

Thanks for the replies guys...

So I decided to stay off the French for probably a few more years... Didn't end up with a lot actually yesterday... just some koonunga hill and some of the 90 or so bottles of Alexander Munro shiraz...

clogwog wrote: As for French wines and their prices (mind you I am based in Europe, so that may make some difference): you get what you bargain for. It is possible to get very nice (that is a BIG very) Bordeaux for somewhere between AUD 20 and 40.

Makes a huge difference. Punitive wine taxes here knock many imported wines right out of contention, with the result that, generally, top end bottlings are the go here. For instance, you almost never see the second wines of the best Bordeaux estates (first growths excepted) available here - Dame de Montrose, Tourelles de Longueville, Reserve du Comtesse - I don't even know if anyone brings them into the country. The odd Cru Bourgeois might sneak down to $40, but that would be all.
cheers,
Graeme

I can offer my two pennorth worth:

Robert Joseph's "French Wines" (Eyewitness Companions series) is quite a comprehensive view of the regions and wines and is worth a good look.

I also recommend the Robinson/Johnson atlas and the Burgundy maps are excellent - speaking of which we're staying in Burgundy for a week in a couple of week's time. If anyone has some suggestions for things to see/do and wine opportunities please let me know! I understand it to be a difficult area to make inroads into but will be just pleased to immerse in the atmosphere of it all in any event... But ideas / suggestions welcome!?

Like you I'm just beginning to dip my foot into the French pool, and it's a bit of a daunting (but also sometimes exciting) experience. About the best thing you can do is attend offlines where other people are generous enough to bring some of these froggies along to get a taste.

Speaking of generous benefactors, I agree with Adrian that the Potensac is an affordable Medoc that's well worth a look as an introduction to Bordeaux. I've tried a couple in the last year with some bottle age (1982, 1986) that were stunning.

I'd also like to add if you like whites you should also have a serious look at Chablis which produces some excellent and surprisingly affordable Chardonnay (like the William Fevre at $30) that will change your view on what this variety can be like.

By the way Neal Martin's Winejournal is a great free website to look at for some of the information you're asking about:
http://wine-journal.com/

Cheers,
Ian

Agree with Ian on all counts:

Neal Martins website is excellent, particularly as its free! He seems particularly good on Bordeaux.

Chablis has to be one of the great values in the world of wine. Petit Chablis and AC Chablis for the same price as premium Aussie Chardonnay, Premier Cru for less than Leeuwin, Grand Cru for $100. Amazing. Try some. White Burgundy doesnt offer this kind of value.

There are indeed entry level wines that are in the affordable range if you want to experiment, Potensac is one. You might have to get beyond $30 though. There are 02 Bordeaux in the shops and its a fairly priced year. Have a look at some of the good cru bourgeois (Chateau De Malle is one I've seen), and someof the 4th and 5th growths. Chateau du Tertre (5eme, Margaux) has been very very good in the last few years for about the same price as Cullen or Moss Wood. I also have the 02 Duhart Milon and Branaire Ducru for $50 to $60.

In the Rhone, Chateauneuf du Pape (sometimes) and Gigondas and Vacqueyras (more often) produce some good wines that can be had below $50, again, below $30 might be a bit more challenging. I've just bought the 03 Roger Sabon "les Olivets" for $50ish. Lincoln is your guide to all things Rhone, check out his tasting notes. Generic Cotes du Rhone can be interesting too for the money.

My 2c,

Andrew

Alex,

Neal Martin's Winejournal website is an excellent source of info on French wines, and I would like to "third" Ian and Andrew's recommendations on visiting this website.

If you find there is not enough information on wines from other regions in France, two other excellent and free websites are:

http://www.burgundy-report.com

This website, as its names suggests, covers wines from Burgundy, and if you explore around the website, you will come across some downloadable and detailed PDF maps of the various wine-producing villages in the region.

http://www.chateauneuf.dk/en/front.htm

This website is free, too, and it covers wines from the Rhone region in southern France. It has lots of information about the winemakers and negociants. It is like Neal Martin's website which focuses mainly on Bordeaux wines, while the Danish fella who put this one together shares with us his passion for Rhone wines.

Cheers,

Raymond

You guys are providing heaps of info. I am going to the UK for a brief visit in July and will check out your suggestions. I really baulk at forking out for French wines in Oz. I will bring back home a small (3 bottles ) but hopefully high quality stash.