The Auswine Forum

SIX PENFOLDS NEW RELEASES-Impressions

Over the years, I looked forward those special times when Penfolds released itÂ’s range of more affordable wines. With so much good wine available today at these price levels, my enthusiasm is somewhat fading towards the range.
Please note, I donÂ’t score wines that (in my view) fall below 90 points.

2005 PENFOLDS BIN 311-Tumbarumba Chardonnay

I believe it is the first release of this Bin number. Fragrant, white stonefruits on the nose. Beautifully smooth, silky and cool palate. Varietal and well balanced with fine acid on the finish. Needs 3 years in the cellar. A better direction than the Yattarna, especially at the price. Very good. AU $35 92 pts

2004 PENFOLDS BIN 138-Shiraz Grenache Mourvedre

Barossa blend that spent 17 months in older oak. Fragrant, floral and candied nose with stewed strawberries and red fruits. Spicy medium bodied palate, lovely and smooth bistro style. Now to 5 years. AU $20

2003 PENFOLDS BIN 128-Coonawarra Shiraz

The 2002 vintage was very good I thought. This wine spent 12 months in French oak, 20% new. Reserved nose with red fruits. Lighter bodied than the 2002 but still very pleasant. Good flavour spectrum and balance. Fine acid and noticeable grainy oak on the finish. AU $20 90 pts

2003 PENFOLDS BIN 28-Shiraz

Matured for 12 months in older American oak. The 2002 was a lot more concentrated than this. Reserved nose , surprisinly light weight and loose palate. A wine that lacks focus, concentration and richness. Looks diluted. The acid sticks out on the finish with vanilla oak. May come into (some sort of) balance in 5 years time. AU $20

2003 PENFOLDS BIN 407-Cabernet Sauvignon

One of the better 407Â’s I tasted for a while. This Cabernet spent 12 months in oak, 27% new. Excellent varietal definition on the nose, capsicum and savoury red fruits. Focused and quite concentrated on he palate with tasty Cabernet flavours. Excellent acid structure and balance, approachable now but will cellar for 10 years. Very good. AU $27 92 pts

2003 PENFOLDS BIN 389-Cabernet Shiraz

I used to collect this Bin range. The 1998 (tasted twice) looks disjointed, the 2002 however is just lovely. The 2003 Bin 389, just like the 407 spent 12 months in oak, 27% new. The Cabernet stands out on the nose. The palate is quite rich and savoury. Well made wine with good focus. There is some bitter oak on the finish, cellar 3 years before drinking. Quite good wine but IÂ’m sure at the price you can buy better and more individual blends. AU $40 91 pts

Cheers,
Attila

Tasted: February 2006

Attila, you are a very generous person.

I've seen your notes Brian and I can see they are similar to mine. I believe the Chardonnay and the Bin 128 are still worth buying. The 407 is varietal and very good compared to some past disasters. As for the 389 it may turn out to be very good in time or fail like the 1998. I remain positive but also agree that the whole lower price range at Penfolds are sliding in quality. Their prices should be cheaper, like they were in the distant past.

Cheers,
Attila

Attila wrote: or fail like the 1998. Cheers,
Attila

Really?????

Attila wrote:I've seen your notes Brian and I can see they are similar to mine. I believe the Chardonnay and the Bin 128 are still worth buying. The 407 is varietal and very good compared to some past disasters. As for the 389 it may turn out to be very good in time or fail like the 1998. I remain positive but also agree that the whole lower price range at Penfolds are sliding in quality. Their prices should be cheaper, like they were in the distant past.

Cheers,
Attila

Are you already convinced the 98 has failed? This wine does seem to polarise opinions I suppose.

Re to Penfolds pricing I have no hesitation paying the price if the quility is there, but if its not then the price doesnt matter to me because I just dont buy in those years. Theres just too many good wines around at affordable prices to buy lesser wines.

Tasted the new releases on Saturday at the local Vintage Cellars and overall wasn't very impressed at all. The 389 was probably the pick of the bunch but as already stated there is definitely better value out there.

The Bin 28 was ok, but as Attila has already stated it appeared very watery with not much body to speak of at all. The worst of the bunch had to be the Bin 128. This wine was absolutely terrible ... green, unbalanced, undrinkable IMO. 90 points Attila ... very generous. Why would Penfolds even consider releasing this??

The Bin 138 was smooth but lacked finish and flavour. Very boring. The 407 had a very cabernet nose and started well, but again no finish to speak of and for the price point there are much better cabernet's out there. Of course didn't waste my time with the Chardonay, but after reading Attila's notes probably should of as this looks to be the best of the new releases.

I realise that the 2003 vinatge wasn't the best but surely Penfolds could have done better than this .... considering the juice they have access too?? Are they spreading the resource so thinly and thinking about the bottom line that quality as been thrown out the window? After tasting their latest efforts this is the only conclusion I can come too. I can only wait and see what adjectives Mr Parker will use when reviewing these wines next year in his Aussie issue of WA! Should be worth reading.

Andrew Jordan wrote:The worst of the bunch had to be the Bin 128. This wine was absolutely terrible ... green, unbalanced, undrinkable IMO. 90 points Attila ... very generous. Why would Penfolds even consider releasing this??

"Why would Penfolds even consider releasing this??"

That's exactly what I was thinking...regarding the Bin 28.
Spot on observation.
Cheers,
Attila

Wow, Prices for these wines are much different here in Canada. All of the wines (389, 128, 28,407) are prices nearly exactly the same; $34 Canadian. I guess then that the 389 is the one to buy. I am doing a tasting at the wine store I work in on Friday and I was going to put in the 2002 Bin 28 or the 2002 389. Which one should I do? Thanks - Rick

Both 2002's you mentioned are good but I especially liked the Bin 389. Better balanced with more complexity and finer length. The Bin 28 has some interesting plum characters, dark and flavourful if not as complex as the Bin 389.
Cheers,
Attila

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Andrew Jordan wrote:Tasted the new releases on Saturday at the local Vintage Cellars and overall wasn't very impressed at all. The 389 was probably the pick of the bunch but as already stated there is definitely better value out there.

The Bin 28 was ok, but as Attila has already stated it appeared very watery with not much body to speak of at all. The worst of the bunch had to be the Bin 128. This wine was absolutely terrible ... green, unbalanced, undrinkable IMO. 90 points Attila ... very generous. Why would Penfolds even consider releasing this??

The Bin 138 was smooth but lacked finish and flavour. Very boring. The 407 had a very cabernet nose and started well, but again no finish to speak of and for the price point there are much better cabernet's out there. Of course didn't waste my time with the Chardonay, but after reading Attila's notes probably should of as this looks to be the best of the new releases.

I realise that the 2003 vinatge wasn't the best but surely Penfolds could have done better than this .... considering the juice they have access too?? Are they spreading the resource so thinly and thinking about the bottom line that quality as been thrown out the window? After tasting their latest efforts this is the only conclusion I can come too. I can only wait and see what adjectives Mr Parker will use when reviewing these wines next year in his Aussie issue of WA! Should be worth reading.

Bingo! (my bolding, above). I didn't think the wines were all that bad; plus I'm a bit out of practice at judging 'young-wines-meant-for-aging' but I certainly wouldn't buy any of these. Well, except perhaps the Chardonnay, if I drank a lot of it and thought the price was good. Which I don't, but I think it was probably objectively the best of the wines on tasting.
I thought the 407 nose was quite promising, but the palate suggested unripeness to me (along with 14.5% alcohol, I notice ). 128 was bland, 28 was crude and manufactured, 138 was juicy but not sweet; it was simple but honest, so perhaps there's some hope for the 04 Bins. It would be harsh to call 389 a polished turd; objectively it wasn't too bad really, just a travesty of the Bin 389 history and laughable at $40btl/doz.

Did the marketing clowns at Rosemount (we're talking 03, remember) really think we wouldn't notice what they'd done to these wines? Morons. In tough vintages like 00, 01, 03 the old Penfolds might just have hunkered down, cut quantities to maintain standards and weathered the storm until the next great year. That's what a quality-focussed WINE company might do. But a profit-focussed FMCG company, which is clearly their self-image these days, has no such qualms. Cut production? Why? These are bumper crops...!

cheers,
Graeme

Also tasted through the penfolds wines and it is a very sad day when the best wine was the white and a chardonnay at that

Like a numberof others, I think this is a really intersting and surprisingly excellent chardonnay. In a way not in the mainstream of penfolds wines - quite a tight and taut wine with fruit dominant rather than the oak - more a 1 cru chablis or lesser puligny. Though I think the price is too high for a region with no track record for dry whites -sure the chard andpinot is used in Salinger - if it sold for $25 - $30 I thinkit would be an excellent wine.

The reds for me were far too unfocussed and even old fashioned.Coarse and hard finishes with undistinguished fruit -like 60's reds. Nothing worth buying there.

Cheers

PaulV

PaulV wrote:The reds for me were far too unfocussed and even old fashioned.Coarse and hard finishes with undistinguished fruit -like 60's reds. Nothing worth buying there.

Cheers

PaulV

Paul, it depends which old-fashioned you are talking about, I fondly remember some pretty smooth reds from the 60's and 70's. Some of them may have been a bit "rustic" by modern fruit-driven standards, but these are the ones I like to think of as old-fashioned, not the rough ones that were just very ordinary wine-making in any era.

I think 2004 will be the make-or-break year for the Bin reds, if they can't make some better wines from 2004 than they deserve to sit on the shelf.

Talking about sitting on the shelf, a quick wine-searcher query has three pages of 2000 and four pages each of listings of 2001 and 2002 Penfolds mostly reds, from Koonunga Hill upwards and 2 pages already for 2003. I think a few people will go back and buy the 2002 reds in preference to the 2003, so the 2003 will be hard to move and may even force some heavy discounting.

Did the same as everyone here it seems and grabbed a taste at the local bottle shop can't really disagree with the conclusions. I had opened a bottle of 02 Bin 28 the previous night so I had a reasonable perspective on the wines. Didn't try the chardy but the 28 was not of the class of the 02 and didn't seem to have the depth of fruit either. The 128 which I used to buy quite often was just disappointing not much happening at all, 407 and 389 are getting up there for my buying budget, the 407 showed some greener characters of which I am not a big fan. The 389 was not up to the standard of other wines in that price bracket these days although I quite liked it.

They certainly don't have a very good qpr at the moment given the number of good wines around $20 and I have a feeling the 04 Mamre wines will blow them away quality wise.

I just wanted to say that the 2003 vintage 407 worth a look because as the 707 was not made that year I believe some of the better Cabernet fruit ended up in the 407. It's definitely varietal and I am certain given 3-5 years it'll come through as a quite good wine.
Cheers,
Attila

PaulV wrote:
The reds for me were far too unfocussed and even old fashioned.Coarse and hard finishes with undistinguished fruit -like 60's reds.
PaulV

Just had the last of my 1965 Seppelts Gt Western Vineyards Shiraz (actually a blend of Barossa, Gt Western, and Rutherglen) last year.

Absolutely splendid wine demonstrating none of the characters you espouse for that decade. And it was not the only red from the 60s that lives fondly in my memory. Coarse hard finishes and undistinguished fruit were there in the 60s, but perhaps that has been hidden today more by winemakers tools (such as MOX) and the manufacture of characterless easy drinking styles.

Davo wrote:

PaulV wrote:
The reds for me were far too unfocussed and even old fashioned.Coarse and hard finishes with undistinguished fruit -like 60's reds.
PaulV

Just had the last of my 1965 Seppelts Gt Western Vineyards Shiraz (actually a blend of Barossa, Gt Western, and Rutherglen) last year.

Absolutely splendid wine demonstrating none of the characters you espouse for that decade. And it was not the only red from the 60s that lives fondly in my memory. Coarse hard finishes and undistinguished fruit were there in the 60s, but perhaps that has been hidden today more by winemakers tools (such as MOX) and the manufacture of characterless easy drinking styles.

Yes and I had a Lindemans 1965 hunter shiraz last year that was also superb.

But they are the exception. My recollectionof the '60's was extracted wines with a hell of a lot of pressings added - in hot years the fruit was dull and in cool years they were nearly undrinkable. Viticultural practices were pretty basic andthe ability to mitigate against poor years with fungicides etc. was unknowm. Great winemakers such as Preece at Great Western and Maurice O'Shea in the Hunter were able to produce some stunningwines inspite of the fruit quality they had towork with.

Given all the viticultural and winemaking "advances" Iwas just very disappointed in the qualityof the 2003 red wines dished up by Penfolds. It just shows arrogance to the typical wine punter.

Cheers

Paul

PaulV wrote: My recollectionof the '60's was extracted wines with a hell of a lot of pressings added - in hot years the fruit was dull and in cool years they were nearly undrinkable. Viticultural practices were pretty basic andthe ability to mitigate against poor years with fungicides etc. was unknowm. Great winemakers such as Preece at Great Western and Maurice O'Shea in the Hunter were able to produce some stunningwines inspite of the fruit quality they had towork with.

You can remember the 60's??

Yalumba Signature and Orlando Barossa Cabernet were my staples, nothing harsh there. There were quite a few chewy wines around though, maybe that's why I still like big reds, I don't mind a bit of mouthfeel.

BTW, copper/sulphur fungicide sprays had been around a long time, in fact the Oxford Companion to Wine indicates the first use of the Bordeaux mixture in 1885 and it's still one of the few sprays allowed under organic and biodynamic regimes

It looks like Jeremy Oliver is reasonably happy with the 2003 Pennies, 89 for Bin 128 and 93-94 for Bin 28 and Bin 389. He comments on the " some refinement-like movement in style" and "very elegant Bin 389".

I'd like them to move the style back to the likes of the 90, 91 or 96 vintages. Maybe they think the likely buyers of the new style well outnumber their loss of buyers of the old style? Never mind, there are plenty of other wines vying for their place in my cellar.

I paid $15.95 ( disc from about $18 ) for my 96 Bin 28, 128 about 6 years ago so $16-$18 for the 2002 versions seems like fair QPR to me.

They may have declined in quality in the lesser vintages but it's been matched by a corresponding price adjustment (when discounted).

I don't know where you get your pricing from Attila but the lower ranked Bin wines have been $24 - $27 in bottle shops in Tas for the last 2-3 years, not the $20 you have quoted. I suppose $25 for those wines compared to $16 for the 96's would be considered a real decline in QPR.

But we haven't had a vintage like 96 since, well, 96, so is it fair to compare the 2001, 02 and 03 wines with vintages like that? How do they stack against say 92, 93, 94, 95?

389 and 407 I have genuine gripes about though. I paid $22 and $17 for my 96's of those and the 2002's and 2003's are double those prices and the general quality of those wines seem to have declined slightly according to most commentators so thats a fair drop in QPR in my opinion.

Red Bigot wrote: ...Jeremy Oliver 93-94 for Bin 28

PaulV wrote: Viticultural practices were pretty basic andthe ability to mitigate against poor years with fungicides etc. was unknowm.

That is actually a pretty interesting comment, especially given the number of vineyards turning to organic or even biodynamic practices these days. And I am not just talking the scared weird little guys. Cullen Henschke, and Woodlands are three that spring to mind that are at least organic and heading towards biodynamic.

As Brian says, fungicides have been around for a very long time, and they, pesticides, and herbicides were all available to growers in the 60s. Mind you they were all pretty nasty products with long residual life.

Ratcatcher wrote:I don't know where you get your pricing from Attila but the lower ranked Bin wines have been $24 - $27 in bottle shops in Tas for the last 2-3 years, not the $20 you have quoted. I suppose $25 for those wines compared to $16 for the 96's would be considered a real decline in QPR.

Tasmania needs a bit more wine-retailing competition, the 2003 Bin 128/28 and 2004 Bin 138 just hit $16.99 in Melbourne and on the net.

I was posting a reply about vintages of the Bin 389 from the 90's etc, but the connection died when I hit submit and I lost it (twice). Sorry not enthused enough to re-type it all.

Red Bigot wrote:It looks like Jeremy Oliver is reasonably happy with the 2003 Pennies, 89 for Bin 128 and 93-94 for Bin 28 and Bin 389. He comments on the " some refinement-like movement in style" and "very elegant Bin 389".

I'd like them to move the style back to the likes of the 90, 91 or 96 vintages. Maybe they think the likely buyers of the new style well outnumber their loss of buyers of the old style? Never mind, there are plenty of other wines vying for their place in my cellar.

Thats higher scores than the 2002 equivilents. I would be interested to see his drinking windows. Whats his score like on 407? I am happier with the old style and not suprised discounts are already starting.

platinum wrote:

Red Bigot wrote:It looks like Jeremy Oliver is reasonably happy with the 2003 Pennies, 89 for Bin 128 and 93-94 for Bin 28 and Bin 389. He comments on the " some refinement-like movement in style" and "very elegant Bin 389".

I'd like them to move the style back to the likes of the 90, 91 or 96 vintages. Maybe they think the likely buyers of the new style well outnumber their loss of buyers of the old style? Never mind, there are plenty of other wines vying for their place in my cellar.

Thats higher scores than the 2002 equivilents. I would be interested to see his drinking windows. Whats his score like on 407? I am happier with the old style and not suprised discounts are already starting.

93 for the 407 as well (2002 was 89), drinking 2011-2015 (+1 on 2002)
Bin 389 dw is 2015-2023, again +1 on the 2002, similar spread on the 96 and 98 vintages, 99-2001 have earlier/shorter dw, he obviously thinks the new leaner styles need as much cellaring as the good vintages of the old style.

FWIW I don't think the 407 style has changed that much, the only one I've ever liked was the 96 and it was a riper, earlier maturing style, the rest have always been too lean, hard and herbaceous for my taste, even when tried with a fair bit of age.