The Auswine Forum

Hi Good Peoples,

It was a damn good night and great to meet so many of you reprobates. Interestingly enough, although there were no earth shattering wines, there were no real dogs either (except for the 2000 Disgorged Rockies Black - now which one of you bastards brought a corked bottle? .... )

Highlights of he night for me were the 2004 Rockies Black - it was stunning; the 89 Mentor was in fine form and a great example of an aged wine; seamless with lots of leathery characters that were well backed by pure fruit and finally, the 96 Bin 707 was right up there and I am very glad I had the opportunity to try it without having to sacrifice one of mine.

Now how about your comments?

It was indeed a great night, even if Sydney was unexpectedly cool and we were outside, they turned the heaters on just in time to stop a couple of wimpy Sydneysiders turning blue. Great to meet you all.

We were all enjoying the evening too much to take notes!

This is what I remember drinking..
Sp. Shiraz.
-Primo Joseph Red NV 03 disgorge - Lovely mouthfeel, excellent wine, but ultimately blown away by the power of the Rockford.
-Rockford Black 04 disgorge - showing some oak and more fruit and power than any other Rockford Black I've ever tried. The 2001 disgorgement I had last week was meek in comparison.

Cabs
-89 Mentor - actually the Mentor predecessor with the black/gold/red Stonewell type label, I drank the last of mine more than five years and was impressed by how well this was travelling, although it is getting towards the limit of my maturity preferences.
-90 Wynn's Black Label - a great example of how good this label used to be and this one was bought at auction. This wine was available for $9.99 case price on release, it has a few years ahead of it yet, maybe 5 or more if you like them pretty mature.
-92 Rosemount Show reserve - tough vintage, a bit leafy and green-edged, not going anywhere.
-91 Wendouree cabernet - trademark menthol, still fairly firm tannins, all about structure, years to go yet, upstaged on the night by some of the bigger reds. I brought this along in case the 94 Johns Blend was too oaky for some, it wasn't, so GRB got to try a Wendouree, the JB 94 and still take his prize 94 JB home. (Despite complaining about the lack of ribbon or wrapping on the prize )
-94 JG John's Blend Cab - heaps of oak (30 months), but the sweet fruit is coping, much better than the last bottle of this I had recently, from the same original case.
-95 Devils lair (mag) - big wine and far too young yet, some comments on a tomato character, I found more of the MR green bean character. It is still a bit gangly and firm.
-96 J. Riddoch (mag) - a contrast to the Devil's lair, classic Coonawarra cabernet with more than 10 years ahead ot it yet.
-96 Penfolds 707 - an absolute pleasure, again needs more time to reach it's peak, but enjoyable with the food, this and the preceding cabs from the 90's showing a good spectrum of Aus cabernet styles from the different regions.
-97 Bowen Cabs - not a great vintage, a bit leafy and thin in the fruit department, may have been better without the other great cabernets surrounding it.
-00 Noon Cab - some Langhorne Ck menthol / mint, a very good wine from a pretty tough vintage.
-00 WDC Reserve Cab - hmm, something odd about this one, not really attractive, I don't know if this is typical of this label or not.

I'm sure I missed something we tried.

Dow's 1977 Vintage Port - I'm not an experienced drinker of real VP, this seemed pretty fine to me though.

Atelier did a reasonable job, but I expected a much better attempt to match the food to the all-red format. The food was nice to very good, but a couple of courses weren't at their best with the reds on offer. They came good at the end with one of the best selections of 4 cheeses I've had in a while, the moist/crumbly Iná Blue from SA was the highlight.

Thanks to all for last night, Julie and I had a great night. The opportunity to taste as many wines as we did was nothing short of tremendous.

I thought the Bowen's might have held up better than it did , I will redeem myself next time!

I enjoyed the Rockford Black, 89 "Mentor", 90 Wynn's Black Label, 94 John's Blend, 96 Riddoch (although still closed), 707 (Must find some of these at auction) and the 99 Three Hills was a real find for me. The 77 Dows Port was great.

As far as the restaurant goes, I have to agree with Brian. They fell short of the mark when it came to matching food and wine.

I intend to instigate and organise an offline in Autumn. I was wondering if people would be interested in taking the trip to Bowral, stay at Links Guest and eat at Eschalot (At the same place as Links Guest House)?

We would just have to convince them to allow BYO on a Friday or Saturday night. Which should be possible shouldn't Ric?

Thanks again all for a very pleasant evening

Finney (Craig)

Hi Craig,

Sounds like a great idea to me, its a local taxi fare to get home and hopefully Mr and Mrs RB will come up for it. The food is guaranteed to be far better than last night too.

I think I can talk them into BYO.

Ditto for me a fantastic night and great to meet you all,

Sparkles
Primo Joseph Red NV 03 disgorge - great wine and on its own would be even better but was over shadowed by the
Rockford Black 04 disgorge - Fantastic great length and structure, I will have to save some penny's and track a couple of bottles down, bummer about the cork on the other bottle

Cabs
89 Mentor - Hadn't realised this wasn't mentor way back then until Marion read the label and asked why we were all calling it Mentor , loverly aged cab shows what can be done with some effort it what was supposed to be a poor vintage.
90 Wynn's Black Label - Fantastic stuff could have been mistaken for a 5 year old wine by the colour. The nose had wonderfull aged characters, this wine still has a few more years in it, great qpr shame the price has gone up and the quality down these days.
92 Rosemount Show Reserve - Not falling over as bad and the 92 BL I had a week ago but still showed how bad the 92 vintage was.
91 Wendouree Cab - My first Wendouree and the menthol on the nose struck me straight away lovely wine and I can see where they have earned the rep.
94 JG John's Blend - No ribbon no fan fair after such a keen and closely fought battle for the prize . Loved the wine had a lot going on, I made a remark about malibu and red wine, the coconut oak was very prominent but the fruit was up to the task such a contrast to some of the more subtle wines we had great stuff, when is the next contest Brian
95 Devils lair (mag) - picked up on the slight tomato on the palate, had some of this in one glass and some of the JG in the other at the same time, terrific contrasts in regions a styles from the same grape. The devils still had a lot of tanin that is yet to resolve give it a few more years if you have any.
96 John Riddoch (mag) - I was really looking forward to this wine and it didn't dissapoint, still a pup but had a lot going on I think it will be exceptional in years to come.
96 707 - Wow Complex nose long layered palate, a great display of what Penfolds can do with collecting good fruit from all the different regions Manning read them off the label at one point and the list was fairly long. This is drinking nicely now but still has years ahead of it.
97 Bowen - Not a bad wine but didn't stand a chance with everything else around.
00 Nood Cab - This one split opinions around the table I liked it, not your everyday cab but had a lot of interesting things happening.
00 WDC Reserve Cab - Just plain weird to me but again oppions where divided some loved it.

Dow's 1977 Vintage Port - Delightful smooth melow with a lovely mouth feel.

Just a tip if you dine at Altelier, ask for the "Good" glasses they do have them. Food was nice with the duck being the standout for me. Thought they could have match a couple of course better with the wine.

Big thanks to Christo for oranising it all, I am already looking forward to the next one.

Glen

hi all just a quick note to say had a great time & it was great to put faces to names.

Pity Atelier did not get back to me with the menu earlier .... first time i saw it was on arrival & i felt they could've done better.

For me WOTN was the 96' 707, also loved the black shiraz as well. Pity we missed out on the WW Anthem.... Ric please post TN's when consumed.

Looking foward to next one.
c

Christo wrote:Pity we missed out on the WW Anthem.... Ric please post TN's when consumed.

Manning was late and he had one the FRS selections, but as he arrived after we started the cabernets, the group missed out on tasting the wine; however Manning was kind enough to give his two bottles away at the end of the night and I scored one of them.

Wirra Wirra Anthem Sparkling Shiraz I had been looking forward to trying this wine as there is not much under $30 that is eminently drinkable and this one had been well recommended.

Lots of medium sized bubbles and whilst the bubble construction and balance of balance seems clumsy, the rest of the wine makes up for this short coming. Loads of rich, chocolately mulberry spectrum fruit with earthy oak mushroom characters are off-sweet and are more than a match for the layer of sweetness running below.

A rare addition to the list of FRS wines that are not overly confected and have a RRP of less than $40; its worth butying and is rated as Recommended with **** for value.

Indeed it was a great night, although I must repeat my apologies for not reading the start time correctly and being 45 mins late.

Glad you liked the Anthem Ric.

I'm off to Tassie in about 20 mins so I'll be offline until middle of next week. Hopefully will have some good Tassie CD reports when I get back.

Craig - Autumn Offline at the Links sounds excellent - count me and SWMBO in.

Um, does anybody have a detailed TN on the WDC? Sounds like an off bottle (I've had it 4x over past 2 years) and its a damn good wine. Why was it "weird" and "odd"? Its simply not fair to write off a wine/wionery on one solitary sample (and it appears that those who posted remarks havel ittle or no previous experience with the wine perhaps)?

Baby Chickpea wrote:Um, does anybody have a detailed TN on the WDC? Sounds like an off bottle (I've had it 4x over past 2 years) and its a damn good wine. Why was it "weird" and "odd"? Its simply not fair to write off a wine on one solitary sample (and it appears that those who posted remarks havel ittle or no previous experince with the wine)?

Danyy, noone is writing off the wine based on this example, it just seemed to have a strange and not pleasant flavour and a disjointed palate, not like any particular fault I'm familiar with, maybe someone who liked it can describe this characteristic and whether it is typical or not.

I'm not really familiar with WDC, but I have enjoyed many heathcote/bendigo cabernets and understand some of the stylistic characteristics of cabernet from the region, this one didn't fit the pattern of a well-made cabernet from any region for my palate.

I'm willing to assume it was an off bottle, but if some people liked this bottle the way it was, then I'm a little surprised

To me, the WDC seemed a little reductive, but I couldn't pin down the what or the why.

I didn't take any notes at all and my memory is a shocka but just a few points.

Firstly, Finney, be very interested in the weekend in Bowral. It was Eschalot that just got the great write up in the good living, wasn't it, so I'd be keen to check it out. After mid March, when things finally begin to settle down would be great. April even better.

The food: I thought it was brilliant. I've eaten at Atelier when it was at Newtown and while exceptional, it came across a bit more homey. They have raised the bar here. The duck egg was stunning, the suckling pig sublime. The cheeses, fantastic. Saying that, I really can't believe they thought most of this was going to match a sparkling shiraz and cabernet night. 2 seafood courses? They had the list of wines too. I know they do some amazing beef dishes so it really didn't make a lot of sense. So on the level of matching, it was a disappointment, however nothing really jarred that badly but the food itself, I thought was amazing. I'll definitely be going back.

The company: Great as always. It's always such a pleasure to go to offlines and meet new people. And for most of this group, it was their first offline. Still haven't found an axe murderer either! Thanks everyone for the generosity and making it such a great night.

The wines: What a fantastic selection. The thing that stuck me the most was the variety. Having attended the 99 Barossa shiraz night, it really struck me there how similar many of the wines were. I guess with the same wine, same region and same year, you should expect that but it was only subtle differences that held them apart. Here, we had a wide range of vintages, regions and styles. Every wine was quite diffferent.

The sparkling shiraz. Wow. How good is this style? Both the Joseph and the Rockford blew me away. I haven't had the Joseph before but wouldn't hesitate to buy it. Lovely bottle too. There'll definitely be some rockford on my christmas table this year.

Quickly through the other wines.

89 Mentor A bit of mint up front. Lovely wine and got better in the glass. Good stuff and holding up very well.

90 Wynn's Black Label Fantastic example of a classic Black Label. Someone at our table said, "When I taste this, this is exactly what I expect from Coonawarra Cabernet" Couldn't have said it better.

92 Rosemount Show Reserve A bit tired and old really. Not bad but at the very end of it's drinking window and everything else on the night was looking a lot fresher.

94 JG John's Blend I got a bit of caramel as well as the sweet coconut on both the nose and front palate. A lovely wine drinking very well indeed.

95 Devils Lair Very different wine from the others, marking it's region. Still very youthful and plenty of life left in it. Worth seeking out.

96 John Riddoch Still very youthful too although I kept some of this in my glass for most of the night and it started fading a little towards the end. Plenty of tannis still but I think this is just entering it's drinking window if you like them a bit bigger but will last for years. Plenty of chocolate and blackcurrent.

96 707 These were my bottles so I was naturally biased but gee these are good. Decanted for about three hours and when I opened them, lovely nose of blackcurrents, which happens to be my favourite flavour. Filled the kitchen with the aromas. On the night, they showed very well, with layers of black fruits and chocolate and spices. I've got quite a few of these so was very interested to see how they were travelling. With decanting (probably longer than what I did would be better) drinking exceptionally well now but should be shining in ten years. These were so closed on release, so glad to see we could get something out of them now.

97 Bowen Unfortunately, can't remember too much about this wine but I think it was paling in comparison to the two previous wines. Still it wasn't bad, as I'd remember that!

00 Noon Reserve Cab Sav I loved this wine (but then I've got a few so it's just as well) Found it quite sweet and full of black fruits. Still quite young though.

99 Happs Three Hills Another great wine. They just kept coming. Also very young with plenty of life in it. Quite a depth of flavour in this one and a long finish.

00 Wild Duck Creek Reserve Cab Sav Didn't find this weird at all. Maybe you were all drinking it with one of the seafood courses? Quite big and still plenty of tannins and again pretty sweet but thoroughly enjoyed it. Maybe I've got the weird palate.

Thank God none of the wines were tasting bitter and metallic this time though!

Anyway, a great night and thanks again to Christo, who I'm sure has his hands more than full with the new bub, for organising the night.

bacchaebabe wrote:99 Happs Three Hills Another great wine. They just kept coming. Also very young with plenty of life in it. Quite a depth of flavour in this one and a long finish.

Ah, I knew I missed one, the Charles Andreas, complex and seductive, elegant yet powerful, delightful wine, I have a few in my cellar courtesy of Ric's last trip to WA a few years back.

bacchaebabe wrote:Saying that, I really can't believe they thought most of this was going to match a sparkling shiraz and cabernet night. 2 seafood courses?

Now this is a menu matched to red wines: http://users.tpg.com.au/handreck/RedBigotWineDinner.htm

Thanks everyone for such a great night. It's my first offline and good to have the opportunity to meet all of you.

The wines that I like most are:
Rockford Black 04 disgorge (my first Rockford Black).
89 Mentor
90 Wynn's Black Label
96 707

Special thanks to Christo for oranising and everyone for their kind generosity and making it such a great night.

Craig, I will look forward to the next offline in Autumn.

Alan

Great night. Great food I think but like other here I think they presented their signatures rather than food matching the wines very well at all. It was great to meet everyone and looking forward to doing it again. Thanks to Christo for organising.

Here are my notes (from memory):

94(disgorged) Rockford Black Shiraz - Joint WOTN. Barossa fruit on the nose. Sweet. Luscious fruit palate with mostly sweet barossa fruit with slight secondary complexity coming though. Powerful stuff with a lengthy finish. Lucky as I think we all wished there was more of the stuff!

93(disgorged) Primo Joseph - Aged shiraz nose. Soft leathery in the mouth with persistant bead. Long finish and nice wine. Like the wine but leaner and slightly more aged in character to the Blackie.

89 Mentor - Dark Brick red in colour. Aged nosewith some mint. Fruit starting to give up to secondary flavours but very nice they are too. Showing very well and is at the perfect stage of development for me. Very nice wine

90 Wynn's Black Label - Fantastic condition. Dark red colour to almost purple. Was the three CCCs. Classic Coonawarra Cabernet. Mint-cedar-cassis nose. Moderate mouthfeel but perfect balance on the palate. The 98s I have are close but just can't touch this. Great value wine of the night and I wonder if the 96 John Riddoch could beat this in 6 years.

92 Rosemount Show Reserve - Darker in colour than the Mentor but was slightly tired. Slightly sweet in the Rosemount style and starting to slip. Reasonable wine and drink up.

94 JG John's Blend - Nice fruit but masses of oak. Have to say that there was bit too much for me. Good wine that could of been very good as far as my personal taste goes.

95 Devils Lair (magnum)- Most elegant wine of the night. Quite youthful in colour. I detected violets (well some flower at least) on the nose. elegant, supplely palate with the oak integrated. Didn't last quite as long on the palate as some of the others on the night. Nice wine and as this was a magnum, I suspect the 750mLs are worth trying from now on.

91 Wendouree Cabernet - First Wendouree for me and what tannin! I have no experience with Wendouree and I am scared that the tannin in this beast just wont drop out. Red in colour with Mint on the nose. Clare Cabernet starting to mature on the palate but what tannin! Fine grained but persistant. I'ld see this in 10 years based on the tannin but would hope the fruit would last. Needed more complementary food I suspect

96 John Riddoch (magnum) - Others liked this wine but I just couldn't help comparing it to the 90 Black Label. This wine was in the middle of its teenage years for me as it had a slightly closed nose and dense brooding palate trying to give very little away. Lots of everything and should last a while. Would like to see it in 5 years.

96 707 Joint WOTN. Haven't tasted this since release and is starting to open up. Hard to describe for me. Perfect varietal characteristics with fine tannin. Great structure and great length. Should last years but still wouldn't say no to a glass tonight. Great wine with more to come.

97 Bowen - Decent nose of Cassis with vanilla oak. On the palate was blackcurrant with coconut. Some secondary flavours there. Finished a bit short. Well-made wine from a poor year but a little oaky for me. Could tell it was a Coonawarra on the nose but a little big on the palate and the finish was different in a way I can't put my finger on. Decent wine.

00 Noon Reserve Cab Sav - Lovely nose but a little lifted. Quite complex on the palate but for my taste a bit mature for a 2000 (and a Noon at that) and the alcohol poked out. Could pick it as a Langhorne Creek wine. Could be a bit critical as I brought it along. With less alcohol this would be a very good wine. Should last another 5 years but the alcohol would stick out more and more for me. I think this polarised drinkers as much as the Wild Duck Creek.

99 Happs Three Hills - I liked this wine. I felt this wasn't that regional though. In fact, had some similarity to the 707 on the palate but not quite as complex. Integrated oak with decent length on the finish. Good wine.

00 Wild Duck Creek Reserve Cab Sav - Black Fruit on the nose with some oak. Huge, sweet palate with masses of fruit. Plenty of soft tannin but didn't taste as acidic or structured as the other wines that night. Nice wine but I think a little unbalanced. Too forward...buxom is the word perhaps


Looking forward to an autumn event in Bowral. Can stay overnight at the in-laws even. Would it be Shiraz, Blends or Others next....(rubs hands)

cheers

Hi Griff,

Seeing my cellar is mostly more down the Shiraz road, I am going with Shiraz as the PREDOMINANT wine for the evening. Do people start to have a preference for the date? I figure if we commit early, we will all be available.

Finney

cool, could possibly attend if after the holiday period in easter.

christo

Finney,

I am keen for a weekend in Bowral. Yvette can even make it to this one as the new additional will have arrived by then. I am pretty flexible on dates.

Glen

TORB wrote:Hi Craig,

Sounds like a great idea to me, its a local taxi fare to get home and hopefully Mr and Mrs RB will come up for it. The food is guaranteed to be far better than last night too.

I think I can talk them into BYO.

We'll be in the middle of renovations, will probably be glad to get away from it all!

I vote for a Shiraz-dominant theme this time too, but would be willing to start with Champagne instead of or as well as Sparkling red this time.

griff wrote:
96 John Riddoch (magnum) - Others liked this wine but I just couldn't help comparing it to the 90 Black Label. This wine was in the middle of its teenage years for me as it had a slightly closed nose and dense brooding palate trying to give very little away. Lots of everything and should last a while. Would like to see it in 5 years.

cheers

How long was the 1996 JR magnum open before consumption?

I breathed a full magnum before the Blacktongues July dinner at Cos and it needed many, many hours to kick-start into life. In contrast to the 1980 Krondorf which I checked and recorked immediately for the event to minimise any possible chance of decay (no decant, filtering, nothing) this was really manhandled to bring out its best (with kid-gloves of course).

Cheers,
Ian

Hi All,

OK, perhaps if ppl start to give me an indication of a time frame that suits, I can book early and have people committed to the date well in advance.

If you will require accomodation also let me know. One night at links guest house on a Friday or Saturday is $195/night including an excellent breakfast.

Regards

Finney (Craig)

Ian Wrote:
[How long was the 1996 JR magnum open before consumption?
]

It was double decanted 3.5 hrs prior to consumption.

Cheers,

Alan

Put me down for two people with accomodation. Or just give us the details when finalised and we can book an appropriate room. Any time in April suits me but I have no idea when school holidays or easter are. Wouldn't want to go at easter or school holidays particularly. Try to avoid kids if possible. Post mid March, we're pretty flexible. The cooler it is the better too.

Around easter (but not on easter) is good for us as well. Happy for a Shiraz theme.

cheers