The Auswine Forum

A new JO short article on his site (members only), but he had a bad run of corks on one night:
Giaconda Chardonnay 1996
Pichon-Longueville Lalande La Comtesse 1990
Penfolds' Bin 90A Coonawarra Cabernet Sauvignon Kalimna Shiraz

Of interest, JO states that this over $550 (auction price) of wine all went down the sink, with no recourse, despite at least the 2 Oz wines came directly from the maker at release and were cellared by him. I would have thought he of all people would have been able to get "acceptable replacement" from the producers for these faulty bottles.

Yes, very odd - Penfolds have always been very good at replacing corked wines for me....

I think I may know why JO doesn't ask some wineries for replacements.

Some producers bend over backwards to supply top writers with wine samples and many of the samples are good enough to actually be consumed, as "everyday drinking wines." So, the chances are a winery like Penfolds has probably been pretty generous with samples to a guy like JO in the past, so although he bought and paid for the corked wine, its difficult to ask for a replacement in these circumstances.

Even in my case, some wineries send me samples every year and so if I strike a corked older bottle of their wine from my own purchased stock, I don't ask for a replacement.

He might have backups anyway.

Gentlemen,

The Penfolds was actually sent to me as a sample on release by Penfolds. Since I had already tasted it, I kept it to watch. It wouldn't be honest to ask for a replacement.

The Pichon was bought on indent by John Wade - no recourse there unless you guys know something I don't. I certainly wouldn't waste my time trying to get another bottle ex chateau.

The Giaconda I paid for. Rick Kinzbrunner, however, has always been very generous with samples for tastings for me, and even brought a bottle of this wine (amongst several) others for a tasting I staged earlier in the year for Harvey Steiman of the Wine Spectator. It just wouldn't feel right to ask him for a replacement (although I have heard he has looked after other customers very well in this regard).

Perhaps I was a touch over the top with the 'no recourse' comment, but in most cases this is how it is for the majority of people with older vintage wines.

Jeremy Oliver wrote:Perhaps I was a touch over the top with the 'no recourse' comment, but in most cases this is how it is for the majority of people with older vintage wines.

Jeremy,

Thanks for the clarification, looks like Ric was spot on with his guess as well.

On the point of getting replacements for older vintages (of Australian wines at least), many of the people who participate/visit the wine forums don't fit into the "majority of people" and there are regular reports of up to 10 yo wines with clear cork-related faults being replaced by wineries. I recently received 2 x Jasper Hill Georgia's Paddock Shiraz 2004 in replacement for a carefully cellared but horribly tca-tainted 1994 vintage. (Many thanks Ron, I was only expecting a single bottle).

If people follow the simple rules of:
1. Keeping the bottle, contents and original cork (for return and analysis if requested)
2. Submit a polite request with explicit details of the fault, details of any batch markings on the bottle/cork etc

most reputable wineries will honour their obligations under the TPA and provide an acceptable replacement, usually current vintage, but some even with the same vintage from their museum stocks.

The recalcitrant ones tend to get a fair amount of negative publicity via the forums and are sometimes pursuaded to improve their policy for replacing faulty bottles.

Brian

We like every one we know replace corked wines. (or work something out...)
I've always believed that was good practice and customer relations..
Never believed we had a legal obligation to do so, and for the life of me can't see the logic that says you have.

Any legal eagles out there to explain the logic?

Cheers
Smithy

smithy wrote:8)

Brian

We like every one we know replace corked wines. (or work something out...)
I've always believed that was good practice and customer relations..
Never believed we had a legal obligation to do so, and for the life of me can't see the logic that says you have.

Any legal eagles out there to explain the logic?

Cheers
Smithy

Disclaimer: I'm not a lawyer, I just play one on Internet Forums.

My understanding is that under the Trade Practices Act, supplied goods must be of merchantable quality. A good that is supplied with a manufacturing fault (ie a corked wine) is not of merchantable quality and should be repaired (not possible), replaced or refunded.

However, the winery is not under an obligation to replace the wine if it was not bought directly from them as the contract is between the consumer and wherever it was purchased from (the obligation to replace or refund then falls on the retailer). That it where the exceptional customer service comes in if the winery still replace the wine and it wasn't bought from them directly.

smithy wrote:8)

Brian

We like every one we know replace corked wines. (or work something out...)
I've always believed that was good practice and customer relations..
Never believed we had a legal obligation to do so, and for the life of me can't see the logic that says you have.

Any legal eagles out there to explain the logic?

Cheers
Smithy

Andrew,

Here are a few links to threads on this forum:
http://forum.auswine.com.au/viewtopic.p ... hlight=tpa (one ACCC link broken, try this http://www.accc.gov.au/content/index.ph ... 3667#h3_25)
http://forum.auswine.com.au/viewtopic.p ... hlight=tpa
http://forum.auswine.com.au/viewtopic.p ... hlight=tpa

There are some more on the other forum, search for TPA.

Jeremy Oliver wrote:Gentlemen,

The Penfolds was actually sent to me as a sample on release by Penfolds. Since I had already tasted it, I kept it to watch. It wouldn't be honest to ask for a replacement.

The Pichon was bought on indent by John Wade - no recourse there unless you guys know something I don't. I certainly wouldn't waste my time trying to get another bottle ex chateau.

The Giaconda I paid for. Rick Kinzbrunner, however, has always been very generous with samples for tastings for me, and even brought a bottle of this wine (amongst several) others for a tasting I staged earlier in the year for Harvey Steiman of the Wine Spectator. It just wouldn't feel right to ask him for a replacement (although I have heard he has looked after other customers very well in this regard).

Perhaps I was a touch over the top with the 'no recourse' comment, but in most cases this is how it is for the majority of people with older vintage wines.

Of the original case of 12 bottles of 96 chard that I bought from the winery (aka hand delivered by RK and DN on his ute to my (then) SA abode) about 6 were reasonably consistent and the rest had varying degrees of randox (majority) or tca (minority). I became so frustrated in the end that I auctioned off my remained stock. Yet I didn't ask for replacements and when I finally did a few years ago with a corked 2000 pinot, I had to threaten TPA legal action to get a replacement. Looking after customers - not in my case !

Was it true or false that subsequent to the various Steinman tastings that RK was less than complimentary about Steinman (putting it politely) ??

Jeremy,

Your experience with the Pichon Lalande worries me, as I have heard of several people who have TCA issues with this vintage. I've got a bottle to open soon, so I hope I have better luck.

All,

Have any of the forum-ites had any success in getting TCA affected Bordeaux replaced ? I'm like Jeremy and didn't even bother trying. I know there have been postings in the past on this subject, but couldn't find them.


Cheers

Mike

smithy wrote:8)

Brian

We like every one we know replace corked wines. (or work something out...)
I've always believed that was good practice and customer relations..
Never believed we had a legal obligation to do so, and for the life of me can't see the logic that says you have.

Any legal eagles out there to explain the logic?

Cheers
Smithy

Do a search on the other forum with something like "TPA" or "corked bottle replace", etc. Like any other product sold in oz, wine is subject to the Trade Practices Act (TPA). If the product is faulty from the manufacturer (i.e. TCA is a manufacturing fault) then it must be replaced or purchase price refunded (including any reasonable costs associated with the replacement - like shipping). In addition, if the winerey insists on the consumer returning the faulty bottle for analysis/verification, then the shipping costs associated with this should also be compensated. For more info, see www.accc.gov.au (or give their hotline a call for a quick opinion) It is up to the winery to seek justice from the closure supplier (if desired).

Randox is a grey area. Is the fault due to a faulty cork or poor cellaring ? If a punter can prove that cellaring conditions are adequate, then randox faults are also replacable.

Re. bordeaux, if the bottle was purchased in oz, then it is subject to TPA regulations (i.e .importer must replace/compensate for faulty bottles that he has sold).