The Auswine Forum

I traded e-mails with Torb about this over the weekend, and I think this is a pretty interesting question. I personally believe that Americans (more than anyone) are driven by Robert Parker scores. Parker, of course, likes those big, super-extracted shiraz fruit bombs. Torb pointed out that a number of wines that are big here in America aren't even available in Australia.

So, what do you think? Would you rather have a big fruit bomb (I'm thinking in the lines of a Shirvington Shiraz or a Dead Arm), or would you rather have something more subtle? I like the big, in-your-face style of wine, but I have serious concerns about the ageability of these wines, esp. with high alcohol content.

GPN,

From a personal standpoint, both styles are fine - it depends on what I feel like at the time.

From what I've seen of the wine loving Yanks in NY, Parker scores and rarity influence their buying decisions. When it comes to the "masses", they don't know / care who Parker is, and they seem to prefer the sweeter reds - hence the runaway success of Yellowtail.

Cheers

Mike

Mike,
this observation is right on the money. Ask ANY soul buying wine at supermarket, and they never even heard of Parker, WS, etc...

we, the wine geeks, are a VERY small minority

There are a couple of recent surveys that throw some light on the wine consumer in the USA. The largest is Constellation Wines US Project Genome (sic) where 3,500+ online interviews were conducted with consumers who had purchased wine costing at least $5 per 750ml in the last 3 months. Much of the public information on that survey is here. They claim a number of insights from this study including that 12% claim to be enthusiasts who are influenced by wine ratings/reviews, but of these only 49% have bought a bottle costing more than $15USD in the last 6 months.

The second is the Hangtime Report on Wine Opinions, which is here. This is based on the views of "307 core consumers and compares their taste preferences and purchase behaviors to an oversample of 117 ‘high end’ consumers who frequently buy California Cabernet Sauvignon and other selected red wines at over $15 per bottle." The charted data from this is interesting. Of the "core group" 54% visit winery sites, 39% magazine sites, 28% Wine Spectator, and just 5% visit the Parker site (presumably the Wine Advocate site). In terms of the publications they read - 57% read "Wine and Food", 19% "Spectator", and only 4% read "Parker" ( again presumably the Wine Advocate) making it equal last with "The Wine News" among the eight wine publications mentioned.

What is not clear from either of these surveys is how many people are influenced in their wine purchases by the presence of a score based on the 100 point system. That is probably the best measure of the influence of Parker, even though consumers may not be aware of his name or reputation.

Mike

GPN,

I don't mind those big in your face wines like Dead Arm on occasions but I wouldn't want to drink them everyday. To me, balance is the most important thing when I drink wine and I don't mind the biggies when they are in balance.

What I don't like are excessively sweet, blackberry, vanillin oakshakes that are over-ripe.

As far as ageing is concerned, those that are in balance should last, those that are over-ripe and out balance will go south.

As far as the American market is concerned, Mike's pointers to that research is good; it provides a good picture of consumers.

Golf&PinotNut wrote: Would you rather have a big fruit bomb (I'm thinking in the lines of a Shirvington Shiraz or a Dead Arm), or would you rather have something more subtle? I like the big, in-your-face style of wine, but I have serious concerns about the ageability of these wines, esp. with high alcohol content.

GPN, I don't think I've seen Dead Arm described as a "fruit bomb" before, it's certainly not what I call a fruit bomb. My idea of a "fruit bomb" is more like TORB's description, where the fruit is prominent, very ripe to overripe and dominates the wine, usually with high alcohol and soft, unobtrusive tannins. These are the sort of wines that tend to go flabby after a few years, Dead Arm isn't in that category usually.

The high alcohol issue has been done to death on the forums over the years, my firm belief is that high alcohol wines that are inherently balanced can and do cellar for 10 years or more and I have many 15%-17% wines in my cellar that prove that to me. If you can't tolerate high-alcohol wines anyway, that's not much use to you though.

I also have a lot of cooler climate shiraz, but probably nothing under 13%, below that level Oz shiraz tend towards green characters and thin palates which I hate as much as the grossly overripe pruny/stewed characters at the other end of the spectrum.

Elegant and complex wines are rewarding, but sometimes a relatively simple wine with lovely rich, fresh juicy fruit flavours, judicious use of good oak and a generous warm finish is just what I want to drink and enjoy without having to think about it all too much.

Red Bigot wrote:My idea of a "fruit bomb" is more like TORB's description, where the fruit is prominent, very ripe to overripe and dominates the wine, usually with high alcohol and soft, unobtrusive tannins.

Interesting -- this IS how I would describe Dead Arm (except, maybe the "unobtrusive tannins" part).

But a debate over what is and isn't a "fruit bomb" is really tangential to my original question -- how do the palates of the antipodean and the yank differ? And I guess I should've offered some qualifications. I didn't mean the average, swill drinking consumer. What I meant was how does the "high end" Aussie's preferences differ from the "high end" American's preference?

The ideal wine for me is a rich, extracted, California Cab -- along the lines of a Bryant Family (when Helen Turley was still there) or perhaps a rich, extracted California Pinot (like the Martinelli Blue Slide Ridge). I like the "in your face" shirazes, but if I had a choice, I'd prefer similar wine-making with the Cab Sauv. grape.

So, does the "average high-end" consumer (to the extent that this is not an oxymoron) prefer cool climate shiraz? Is that what you're telling me?

Golf&PinotNut wrote:

Red Bigot wrote:My idea of a "fruit bomb" is more like TORB's description, where the fruit is prominent, very ripe to overripe and dominates the wine, usually with high alcohol and soft, unobtrusive tannins.

Interesting -- this IS how I would describe Dead Arm (except, maybe the "unobtrusive tannins" part).

So, does the "average high-end" consumer (to the extent that this is not an oxymoron) prefer cool climate shiraz? Is that what you're telling me?

No I don't think that's the case at all. I can't really answer your original question, that's why I just chimed in on my version of "fruit bomb".

From limited observation, the American palate at the high end has two faces - the Old-World fans in all their guises from pinophiles through bordeaux fanatics to lovers of bold Italian reds and then there are those who like the big extracted californian styles (of which I have almost zero experience). I assume some like both.

Maybe to both of these groups the exuberant fruit and often relatively soft tannins of many Oz shiraz in particular come across as fruit bombs, but a quick look at the Oz wines on offer in the US indicates there are a whole range of styles on sale (many not fruit bombs by my definition) and apparently selling reasonably well. I don't know whether there is any correlation between other preferences and the style of Oz wine preferred by US drinkers.

There are quite a few labels that are export-only and probably a few of these are made specifically to try to garner high points from RPjr who is seen by some as the main definer of the high-end US wine palate. For all the attention and publicity he gets, I'm not sure that is actually true, there are enough serious wine-drinkers who can and do think for themselves. Despite that, there is a sufficient market of Parker-followers that will make or break the sales of at least a particular vintage of an Oz wine if not the whole label itself.

The new Wine Advocate Oz issue must be out shortly, I wonder who will be the winners and losers?

The new Wine Advocate Oz issue must be out shortly, I wonder who will be the winners and losers?

Losers ..... The Australian wine buying public!