International Cabernet Play Off - Best '95/'96 from Oz?

[Maximus]

Okay, I need some suggestions.

A small group of us are entertaining the thought of an international cabernet 'play off' when we meet up in November given that I can source a '97 Gaja Darmagi at an outrageous price. We would look for a representative from each of the major countries; Australia, NZ, Italy, France and the States. Except for France, price isn't an issue. We also want to compare apples with apples vintage wise, so a '97 or a '96 would be ideal.

So, at this stage:

Italy: 1997 Gaja Darmagi
France: 1996 Cabernet dominant Bordeaux...
U.S.: ???
NZ: Stonyridge Larose (unsure of vintage)?
Oz: 1996 Penfolds Block 42 Cabernet?

I'd love some assistance on the French (Danny..) and American (Mike...) wines, and some other suggestions for the best decade old Cab Sauv from Australia (bigots...) to compete with the likes of Gaja from Italy would be appreciated. I've considered '96 Bin 707, '95 Moss Wood, '96 Mt Mary Quintet, '96 Cyril, but I still think the Block 42 is a winner. Open to alternatives on the kiwi wine too (Craig and Sue...).

Cheers and thanks in advance,

[707]

Only one wine from Aust? 95 of course was great in MR, 96 great in Coonawarra.

95 Vasse Felix Heytesbury has always been tops, it is a blend though. 96 John Riddoch or 96 Parker First Growth from Coona.

[Guest]

95 Moss Wood or 96 Block 42. They are the best of the best.

[KMP]

If you pose the question about '95-97 Cabs from the USA up on eBob I bet you get a whole bunch of very biased answers. Well at least that is what you are going to get from me!

A lot of folks will say Screaming Eagle . Although I know folks who have this wine I've never been fortunate enough to try it. And I seriously doubt that its available in Oz, plus on the secondary market it is outrageously priced. The wines I would go to would be wines from 1995 or 1997 by

Shafer Vineyards Cabernet Sauvignon Hillside Select (a favorite)
Dunn Cabernet Sauvignon Howell Mountain (loved by a lot of folks, I prefer the Etude or the Shafer)
Etude Cabernet Sauvignon (a big personal fav)
Spottswoode Cabernet Sauvignon (another fav)
Whitehall Lane Cabernet Sauvignon Reserve (I like it, many don't)

I think your real problem will be sourcing any of these wines, unless you know of a cellar that has been collecting California Cabs.

Mike

[Baby Chickpea]

Max, for Aussie I would go Block 42. Ripper wine, especially in 10. For France, the Pichon-Lalande is stunning and approachable (and about same price as Block 42). The Leoville Las cases is its equal (and Ducru) but far more tannic and backward but a potnetially magnificent wine in time..the ultimate would be 96 Lafite or Margaux! Therefore, Pichon it should be! Sounds like a good idea.

Might also suggest Lebanon's Chateaau Musar 1996 - elegant vintage (compared to powerhouse 1991 and 1995) and made with Cinsault, Carignan, and Cabernet Sauvignon (predominantly). Very different and unique wine. Only about $60 a bottle.

[Nayan]

Might also suggest Lebanon's Chateaau Musar 1996 - elegant vintage (compared to powerhouse 1991 and 1995) and made with Cinsault, Carignan, and Cabernet Sauvignon (predominantly). Very different and unique wine. Only about $60 a bottle.

Danny,

Where do you get the '96 for $60? Can't see it on winesearcher.

Regards

Nayan

[JamieBahrain]

Musar $25 Aussie at Beirut International Airport.

[Nayan]

Musar $25 Aussie at Beirut International Airport.

Thanks for the heads-up, but quite frankly as useful to me as a chocolate fireguard.

(Though seriously thinking about trying to do vintage there next year)

[Baby Chickpea]

Well, the 97 is out now but you might try a certain retailer in Bondi (can I say this) or give Gavin Trott (AusWine) a call and maybe he can source it for you. Soemone in Oz must have supplies and it does come up at Langtons too. Oh, its US$9 in Bahrain.

[Guest]

Oh, its US$9 in Bahrain.

ABout what its worth!!

[Craig(NZ).]

Max

For the US try 95 ridge Montebello - you can get it from scenic cellars.

bigger than big. very impressive

[Craig(NZ).]

96 Stonyridge is a good choice. id stick with that

[Maximus]

Only one wine from Aust? 95 of course was great in MR, 96 great in Coonawarra.

95 Vasse Felix Heytesbury has always been tops, it is a blend though. 96 John Riddoch or 96 Parker First Growth from Coona.

Yeh, but are these really going to compete like a Block 42 would against '97 Gaja???

A lot of folks will say Screaming Eagle . Although I know folks who have this wine I've never been fortunate enough to try it. And I seriously doubt that its available in Oz, plus on the secondary market it is outrageously priced. The wines I would go to would be wines from 1995 or 1997 by

Shafer Vineyards Cabernet Sauvignon Hillside Select (a favorite)
Dunn Cabernet Sauvignon Howell Mountain (loved by a lot of folks, I prefer the Etude or the Shafer)
Etude Cabernet Sauvignon (a big personal fav)
Spottswoode Cabernet Sauvignon (another fav)
Whitehall Lane Cabernet Sauvignon Reserve (I like it, many don't)

I think your real problem will be sourcing any of these wines, unless you know of a cellar that has been collecting California Cabs.

Mike

Mike, are you able to source these wines at all? I would have no idea where to start looking here in NZ, nor in Oz. If you could find any at all, it could be an idea for me to transfer funds to you and have it shipped over if it wasn't too much trouble...

Max, for Aussie I would go Block 42. Ripper wine, especially in 10. For France, the Pichon-Lalande is stunning and approachable (and about same price as Block 42). The Leoville Las cases is its equal (and Ducru) but far more tannic and backward but a potnetially magnificent wine in time..the ultimate would be 96 Lafite or Margaux! Therefore, Pichon it should be! Sounds like a good idea.

Danny,

Thanks heaps for the recommendations. Your suggestion of '96 Pichon Lalande sounds like the way to go. Any idea where I'd source a '96 Pichon in Oz? I may have avenues in NZ but I would imagine any decent '96 Bordeaux would be hard to source, let alone at reasonable prices...

Max

For the US try 95 ridge Montebello - you can get it from scenic cellars.

bigger than big. very impressive

Craig,

Where abouts are scenic cellars? Any idea of price range? Any idea where I'd source a '96 Stonyridge from???

Thanks everyone for the help. I'll also throw the Vega Sicilia Unico on the table here as a Spanish Cabernet blend (granted it's Tempranillo dominant) and see what people think...

[Guest]

Chateau Margaux wins, fatality. If your budget is a bit sore, look at Poyferre (though it's not as solidly a Cabernet blend).

[KMP]

A lot of folks will say Screaming Eagle . Although I know folks who have this wine I've never been fortunate enough to try it. And I seriously doubt that its available in Oz, plus on the secondary market it is outrageously priced. The wines I would go to would be wines from 1995 or 1997 by

Shafer Vineyards Cabernet Sauvignon Hillside Select (a favorite)
Dunn Cabernet Sauvignon Howell Mountain (loved by a lot of folks, I prefer the Etude or the Shafer)
Etude Cabernet Sauvignon (a big personal fav)
Spottswoode Cabernet Sauvignon (another fav)
Whitehall Lane Cabernet Sauvignon Reserve (I like it, many don't)

I think your real problem will be sourcing any of these wines, unless you know of a cellar that has been collecting California Cabs.

Mike

Mike, are you able to source these wines at all? I would have no idea where to start looking here in NZ, nor in Oz. If you could find any at all, it could be an idea for me to transfer funds to you and have it shipped over if it wasn't too much trouble...

Max, It looks like a number of these wines are available but would be $100USD+. Check out Wine Searcher for the prices. I never shipped wine before but if anything on Wine Searcher interests you let me know and I'll look into the shipping requirements.

Max

For the US try 95 ridge Montebello - you can get it from scenic cellars.

bigger than big. very impressive

The Ridge might be an alternative. Can't remember having tasted the wine but if its anything like some of their Zinfandels then it will be excellent. I looked up Parker's opinion and he agrees that they are big wines. He gave the 1995 a 91 in 1998 (the 1996 rated much better, the 1997 slightly better than the '95). The 1995 is 69% Cabernet Sauvignon, 18% Merlot, 10% Petit Verdot, and 3% Cabernet Franc. Parker gives these wines 2-3 decades of life.

Mike

[KMP]

FYI on the California Cabs. there is a post up on eBob asking "What are your top three California Cabs ever?"

A few names keep cropping up but the more posts there are the longer the list becomes.

Mike

[JamieBahrain]

Musar $25 Aussie at Beirut International Airport.

Thanks for the heads-up, but quite frankly as useful to me as a chocolate fireguard.

(Though seriously thinking about trying to do vintage there next year)

Nayan

With due diligence regarding your security I hope. But Hezbollah in that part of the Bekaa not too bad.

Max

Personally, I reckon it's a good idea to be aware of relative pricing in the wine's respective country in " Play Off " scenarios. Too often, Aussie wines are perceived falsely to be great QPR when compared against foreigners acquired locally.

Guest

Musar can be quite good with time in the bottle and decanting.

[Nayan]

Nayan

With due diligence regarding your security I hope.

Especially with the current situation...

Visited Lebanon for a holiday in 1999 and had a fabulous time; great food, great people, amazing archaeology. Only got shot at once , and that was completely my own fault.

[MartinE]

Only got shot at once , and that was completely my own fault.

I'm sure that would be great comfort as you lie bleeding in the gutter!!

[Guest]

Ridge Montebello, 1996 is peach!

[Craig(NZ)]

Max

Montebello Scenic Cellars in Taupo. Its around $250 a bottle I think for montebello. If you want something cheaper maybe try the ridge santa cruz. Not sure what your budget is but at least you can source and perhaps afford a montebello not like a screaming eagle or any of the stupid california cults suggested above that cost hundreds or thousands of $US

96 Stonyridge. try Vinotica albany or La Barrique Mt Eden, they may have some or alternatively its in nearly every monthly auction at webbs or fitzgeralds.

maybe also try to add a super tuscan eg sassacaia or the likes

again budet may restrain you

[Craig(NZ)]

few years ago we did similar - large range of wines and vintages

we had:

86 Lafite
85 Cos Estournel
88 Sassacaia
96 Ponet Canet
93 Henschke Cyril
96 Penfolds Bin 707
95 Ridge Montebello
97 Stonyridge
96 Coleraine
95 Montana Tom

Cyril and Lafite came out top for me, but all were very good wines in their own right

[Maximus]

Max

Montebello Scenic Cellars in Taupo. Its around $250 a bottle I think for montebello. If you want something cheaper maybe try the ridge santa cruz. Not sure what your budget is but at least you can source and perhaps afford a montebello not like a screaming eagle or any of the stupid california cults suggested above that cost hundreds or thousands of $US

96 Stonyridge. try Vinotica albany or La Barrique Mt Eden, they may have some or alternatively its in nearly every monthly auction at webbs or fitzgeralds.

maybe also try to add a super tuscan eg sassacaia or the likes

again budet may restrain you

Craig,

Thanks for all of the useful info. How did you come across those online auction mobs? It would appear Fitzgeralds are holding their debut wine auction in a weeks time, or did I not read that right?

We already have the 'super-piedmontese' in Gaja from Italy, so no bending the rules unfortunately. It's just like saying why limit the Oz showing to the Block 42 when there are amazing cabernets from the infamous Coonawarra region and Margaret River. Perhaps not so valid with the States (is there anything worthwhile from Oregon, at all?) or France though, given their best Cabernets are fairly restricted to a certain region.

I'm starting to have doubts about the vintages though. Will a '97 Gaja and the likes of '96 Block 42 be just too young to appreciate???

Cheers,

[KMP]

Max

Montebello Scenic Cellars in Taupo. Its around $250 a bottle I think for montebello. If you want something cheaper maybe try the ridge santa cruz. Not sure what your budget is but at least you can source and perhaps afford a montebello not like a screaming eagle or any of the stupid california cults suggested above that cost hundreds or thousands of $US

As my dear departed mother would say – “What absolute rubbish!”

The Screagle is definitely a cult and a 1997 would cost somewhere around $2,000USD and the 2002 about $1,000. While it depends on your definition of cult, the wines that I suggested are (from my perspective) far from cult. With the possible exception of the Shafer Hillside Select they are all very reasonably priced for quality California Cabs. They are sought after and that makes them relatively expensive wines that can be difficult to source. LetÂ’s look at some prices (in USD) from Wine Searcher.


Shafer Vineyards Cabernet Sauvignon Hillside Select 1997 $250+, 2001 $125

Dunn Cabernet Sauvignon Howell Mountain 1997 $125, 2001 $80

Etude Cabernet Sauvignon 1997 $160, 2001 $80

Spottswoode Cabernet Sauvignon 1997 $150, 2001 $90

Whitehall Lane Cabernet Sauvignon Reserve 1997 $175, 2002 $80

The Ridge Monte Bello? ItÂ’s a cheap $150 for the 1997 and $120 for the 2002 from the winery (if its still available).

Mike

[SueNZ]

NZ: Stonyridge Larose (unsure of vintage)?
Open to alternatives on the kiwi wine too (Craig and Sue...).

I'd agreed with the 1996 Stonyridge Larose - it's a blend of Cabernet Sauvignon, Cabernet Franc, Merlot and Petit Verdot, but seeing you are putting in a Frenchie - that's OK.

Cheers,
Sue

[SueNZ]

It would appear Fitzgeralds are holding their debut wine auction in a weeks time, or did I not read that right?

I don't know what you read, so you may have read it right - but certainly the information is wrong. Fitzies have been going for years. They kind of took over the wine auctions when Peter Webbs's left a gap in the mid-1990's.

Cheers,
Sue