The Auswine Forum

Although my investment profile errs on the "risky" side, I have made many mistakes and one of them is with Fine Wine Heritage. As everyone in the community all know, the company is under administration.

I feel "jibbed" having invested with FWH, and now the Administrator is asking the investors to cough up more cash and my gut feel is that, this isn't going to be the end if I was to get my wines back.

Being a newbie and puppy to wine, is there something out there I can do to claim the asset that I have fully paid for and rightly own ?

kimbapuppy wrote:Although my investment profile errs on the "risky" side, I have made many mistakes and one of them is with Fine Wine Heritage. As everyone in the community all know, the company is under administration.

I feel "jibbed" having invested with FWH, and now the Administrator is asking the investors to cough up more cash and my gut feel is that, this isn't going to be the end if I was to get my wines back.

Being a newbie and puppy to wine, is there something out there I can do to claim the asset that I have fully paid for and rightly own ?

I think this is a legal issue rather than a specific wine issue. I imagine creditors line up to get their assets back from bankrupt companies all the time.
I apologise for sounding so unsympathetic, but I dont believe there is anything that makes this case unique, just because wine is the asset involved,

regards

Andrew

Andrew is right, this is a legal issue but I can tell you that some significantly high profile investors, legal eagles included, are locked into the same process as yourself.

I know it seems like throwing goodc money after bad when you're asked for a further $1 per bottle to proceed with the matter without further assurances they'll ask for more money again in the future.

In reality, you're unlikely to get 100% of the wine you believe you owe, more like 85% across the range is my understanding and that will depend on exactly which wines you own. Some wines may be lesser or higher % than the average.

So the equation is that you think you own 100 bottles, you pay another $100 now, maybe more in the future, then end up with 85 bottles of wine that because there's a flood of them released won't be worth true value on the market.

Tough as it may sound, I don't think you've got any choice but to pay up the money asked and hope you like to drink the wine you eventually receive.

Sorry.

I haven't heard of any anformation regarding a fee to follow up wine invested in Heritage.
Is there somewhere I can access this information?

Rory

The liquidators have written to people who have a claim against Heritage for wine asking for $1 a bottle is my understanding from a burnt friend.

Suggest you contact the liquidators in the first instance.

Hi Kimbapuppy

I feel for you as Ive had the same happen with shares, albeit maybe to a lesser extent. It seems a joke that every time they ask for more money when they have intentionally or unintentionally just Gibed you so to speak.

The only money I would hand over in your situation would be a couple of lousy hundred dollars for a talk with Slater & Gordon to see if they think you have a good chance or not. If you do they will fight no win no fee and there is no one better then them.

Hmmm, not sure about going that way. At least with this, they do actually hold most of the stock and you hold certificates saying you've bought it. If you don't pay up the extra, you may just get less wine than what you've purchased to cover costs, which you probably will anyway.

It really depends on what you've bought and how much. I heard a lot of Grange went missing from Millers but then I don't know how much of that was HFW and how much was owned by normal storage folk.

You probably should have a chat with them but I think handing over $1 per bottle may not be such a bad deal to actually get the wine eventually. Much better than losing the lot, that's for sure. If you think of it this way, you would have paid $1 a bottle per year for storage anyway, it's not so hard to take, and at least it has been sotred properly.

Yeah but how does he/she know that they have to hand all the wine over if you pay the extra? With them into adminastration Id say there would be plenty of ways for them to avoid coughing up as much as they should.

Anonymous wrote:Yeah but how does he/she know that they have to hand all the wine over if you pay the extra? With them into adminastration Id say there would be plenty of ways for them to avoid coughing up as much as they should.

When in invest in anything there is a risk associated with the investment.

It is the administrators job to try and distribute the assetts according to strict laws and proceedures.

Why would the administrator "avoid coughing up as much as possible?" Their fees are set.

Rory wrote:I haven't heard of any anformation regarding a fee to follow up wine invested in Heritage.
Is there somewhere I can access this information?

Rory

First of all, thanks to all who have responded to my query.

Payment of the levy are as follows (for the 2nd administrator):
1st levy: $1.10 per bottle that you actually own (administrator will refund you the amount they think you own)
2nd levy: another $1.10 per bottle to actually get your goods back

Hidden costs not yet disclosed:
+ Bottles that have disappeared
+ Fees for the 1st adminstrator (you should see both the administrator's charge out rate - I am in the wrong business so to speak)
+ Additional fees for storage of the wine and transportation (the lease expired for a few warehouse and have them move to another location)
+ Possibly the discharging of the wine (ie, how the investor will get their hands on their wines)

The levy imposed by the administrator have just focussed on "their time" spent in administering, they haven't factored in how the investors are going to get back the wines.

The hidden costs yet to be disclosed to the investor, and their faces when they see it: PRICELESS....

Anyway, there is this "investor meeting with the administrator":

In Melbourne: Melb Exhibition & Convention Centre (Corryong Rm), corner of Spencer and Flinders St, 27th July 2005, 2pm

In Sydmey: Sydney Masonic Centre (Ionic Rm), 66 Goulburn St, 28th July 2005, 11.30am.

This little puppy is going to attend the Melbourne meeting and perhaps, do a little barking.

opps, forgot to login for the above comment.

Good luck with it all.

Has the third wine investment company gone into receivership yet or is it just Heritage and Wine Ark/Orb so far?

(you should see both the administrator's charge out rate - I am in the wrong business so to speak)

Pup,

My peridontist charges $365 for 20 minutes work and for that money, he gets to inflict pain too.

TORB wrote:

(you should see both the administrator's charge out rate - I am in the wrong business so to speak)

Pup,

My peridontist charges $365 for 20 minutes work and for that money, he gets to inflict pain too.

What is a peridontist? Sounds like someone who treats dinosaurs?

GW

Tha Administrator partner's (top charge out rate) is $320 + GST per hour. Pales in comparison to your peridontist but still, it's "CHAH CING"!!!

707 wrote:Good luck with it all.
Has the third wine investment company gone into receivership yet or is it just
Heritage and Wine Ark/Orb so far?

I am assuming you are talking about Australian Portfolio Wine.
They refuted claims by "The Australian" newspaper that it is in trouble.
If anyone has any inside information, I am all ears....

Anonymous wrote:

Rory wrote:
Hidden costs not yet disclosed:
+ Bottles that have disappeared
+ Fees for the 1st adminstrator (you should see both the administrator's charge out rate - I am in the wrong business so to speak)
+ Additional fees for storage of the wine and transportation (the lease expired for a few warehouse and have them move to another location)
+ Possibly the discharging of the wine (ie, how the investor will get their hands on their wines)

The levy imposed by the administrator have just focussed on "their time" spent in administering, they haven't factored in how the investors are going to get back the wines.

The hidden costs yet to be disclosed to the investor, and their faces when they see it: PRICELESS....

Anyway, there is this "investor meeting with the administrator":

In Melbourne: Melb Exhibition & Convention Centre (Corryong Rm), corner of Spencer and Flinders St, 27th July 2005, 2pm

In Sydmey: Sydney Masonic Centre (Ionic Rm), 66 Goulburn St, 28th July 2005, 11.30am.

This little puppy is going to attend the Melbourne meeting and perhaps, do a little barking.

Thats what I was talking about Torb. Strict laws are one thing but only strict on whats there Them avoiding coughing up was a silly way for me to explain what I meant.

TORB wrote:

(you should see both the administrator's charge out rate - I am in the wrong business so to speak)

Pup,

My peridontist charges $365 for 20 minutes work and for that money, he gets to inflict pain too.

there must be a lack of competition where you are you must earn a squilion writing those reviews

You are right, there is only one in the area and he comes up once a week from Wollongong.

It's better to pay the extortionist prices than have no teeth. And yep, those reviews earn me loads. Just as well I can sell a goldfish or two as well.

For more information regarding this joke, paw your way to:
http://www.bankruptcy.net.au/heritage.htm

TORB wrote: And yep, those reviews earn me loads. Just as well I can sell a goldfish or two as well.

Fibber, YOU don't sell them, the girls do. I've heard they prefer you to keep away from the shop! Very happy when you go touring I believe.

This puppy did bark a little bit at the investor seminar.

If anyone is interested, all resolutions were passed in favour except for one with regards to paying the first administrator, Ngan & Co. Apparently, there were a lot of dodgy dealings between Peter and the Heritage directors. Interestingly, I couldn't find any reference of Heritage Fine Wine in the ASIC website.

I don't think there is a class action now, but now that the investors have combined forces, there may soon be one.

More information can be found in:
http://heritageswines.blogspot.com/

Go to investdrinks.org and follow the link to:
heritageinvestors.com.au

Sorry it should be:
heritageinvestors.info

Well I see investors are getting their wines now or part therof. Time for a flood of Kalleske wines onto the market??

I have noticed that Crouch have an advisory comittee together to develop a plan for the sale of the wine.

The panel is made up of

Nick Geiner - didn't he invest ???
Brian McGuigan
Theo
Nick Bullied
Adrian Read &
Mark Noble

They should have included some of the winemakers whose wine is involved!

Apparently they were to have recommendations in 6 weeks. This was put together in Feb 06 - Has any one seen the recommendations??

On this brief, they mention selling the wine overseas. This will sure screw up the market as much as selling in domestically.

They also say the wine should be sold through wholesale channels. That's mad - if anyone is to get their money back, they'd have to wholesale the wine at retail cost. If you then add margins etc, the wine will be priced way out of any realistic salable position. Theo & Uncle Brian should have told them that!

Anyway, that's just a bit of a rant.

Cheers
Dave C

Davidc wrote:I have noticed that Crouch have an advisory comittee together to develop a plan for the sale of the wine.

The panel is made up of

Nick Geiner - didn't he invest ???
Brian McGuigan
Theo
Nick Bullied
Adrian Read &
Mark Noble

They should have included some of the winemakers whose wine is involved!

Apparently they were to have recommendations in 6 weeks. This was put together in Feb 06 - Has any one seen the recommendations??

On this brief, they mention selling the wine overseas. This will sure screw up the market as much as selling in domestically.

They also say the wine should be sold through wholesale channels. That's mad - if anyone is to get their money back, they'd have to wholesale the wine at retail cost. If you then add margins etc, the wine will be priced way out of any realistic salable position. Theo & Uncle Brian should have told them that!

Anyway, that's just a bit of a rant.

Cheers
Dave C

They say they are sending me a list to 'tender' for purchase.

They have also talked to wine auctioneers in Australia

so

???

I got my wines - all except 17 bottles, making a total of 433. Cost to liquidator was $5.08 per bottle plus delivery. I'm going to drink them - maybe share some with friends. Swaps anyone?
My main beef with the liquidator is that they spent much of the levy developing the WAMS software - which will deliver zero benefit to investors. Also, I gather the panel of "experts" is mainly interested in not swamping the Aus market, rather than in representing the interests of investors.
Caveat emptor.

swamp away I say

I have a few consignments in my current auction from the personal stocks of a number of Ex-Heritage investors and have also been contacted by Crouch on a number of occassions. On the first occassion to estimate the value of the wine and lately to tender for the sale of it. I have seen the quantities and there are ALOT of bottles to be released, not sure quite what their plans are, almost sounds like the current request for tenders is another fishing expedition by the liquidators.