The Auswine Forum

Tasted the Southcorp roadshow Wed night.

The wines were
01 Devils Lair Cab/Merlot....spoilt with Brett IMO
01 Coldstream Reserve Cab
01 St George cab
99 Dorrien (Barossa) and Yummy
02 Penfolds 707 Whoah baby!
00 Grange...Yawn

Are we getting sick and tired of green herbaceous green/bean weedy Cabs and finally getting into ripe blackcurrant wines with soft tannins and mouthfeel and structure.

ie..have cool climate cabs had there day?

Cheers
Smithy

Hello Smithy,

My simple answer is no.

While warm climates produce more consistent Cabernet, cooler climates produce more Cabernet highs and lows. I am willing to forgive the lows due to vintage variations as I believe the highs are worth the wait.

Adair

The most profound (best) Cabernet I have had this year was the 2002 Yarra Yarra The Yarra Yarra.

Even TORB went nuts about the 2001 Cullen, and was quite find of the above mentioned Yarra Valley Cabernet.

I am also now very keen on trying the 2000 Domaine A Cabernet as it sounds as if there is gretness in that wine too, at least for my palate.

I had the 1994 Seppelt Drumborg Cab (13%) last week, a wine criticised heaps for its weediness. Well, it is now only starting to hits its drinking window and it is quite wonderful. The 1998 St Hugo (13%), also tasted in the same session, has another 5 years before its best and it will be great.

I guess I am saying that I like them - I believe there is more chance for complexity in flavour and structure.

Adair

Smithy,

What's your opinion on the Quintets and Lake Folly?

smithy wrote:8)

ie..have cool climate cabs had there day?

Cheers
Smithy

Well the two wines I would go for head and shoulders above the rest are the Devils and Coldstream. No brett in the Devils that I have noticed. If I want to drink soup I will use a spoon

GW

Andrew,

FWIW, I didn't see Brett in the 01 Devils Lair either.

I also had a look at JO's TN and there is no mention of Brett in his note either; however in part he said "Rather green-edged and sappy cabernet with clearly shaded dark berry fruit contributing to its herbal, vegetative character."

I didn't mind it.

JO needs to retaste the Devils.

96 Mattinson
94 Halliday
Top 3 in AGT wine cabernet tasting - 96 points (Hooke, Robinson, Caillard, Bullied et al)
Hooke - Profound wine - sweet succulent fruit etc etc

96 points from me.

Top wine.

GW

Gary W wrote:JO needs to retaste the Devils.

96 Mattinson
94 Halliday
Top 3 in AGT wine cabernet tasting - 96 points (Hooke, Robinson, Caillard, Bullied et al)
Hooke - Profound wine - sweet succulent fruit etc etc

96 points from me.

Top wine.

GW

And here is the TN from that guy TORB.

Devils Lair 2001 Cabernet Sauvignon PlonkOz04

If you are looking for a wine that is showing well or that will be drinking well anytime soon, forget about this one as its not showing well now but I have faith in its ability to emerge from its cacoon. It is a seriously structured wine with fantastic long mouth numbing tannins to match the massive fruit that is currently dominated by the tannins. A veritable baby showing coffee/chocolate oak, eucalyptus, green bean and olive. Currently rated as a Highly Recommended (with ** for value) brooding baby that seems to be having a dummy spit, the rating should improve around 2011+ when it sheds its diapers.

Mount Mary Quintet 01 is as good as any 707 Ive had and when 707 is good its bloody good. Havnt tried other vintages though

Anonymous wrote:Mount Mary Quintet 01 is as good as any 707 Ive had and when 707 is good its bloody good. Havnt tried other vintages though

Come on Gary, log in.

Attended same S/Corp tasting as Andrew and have to agree that the cool climate Cabs on offer were pretty charmless to put it politely, and yes the Devils Lair was a bit on the mousy side of funky. The Dorrien looked in reasonably good shape, and the '02 707 was phenomenal (no Coonawarra fruit).

But I've had some absolutely cracking cool climate Aussie Cabs such as the 99 Devils Lair and Jack Mann, and the 98 Drumborg and Domaine A. I won't be lining up to buy the weedy little buggers we tasted on the night, but I wont be writing off cool climate cab anytime soon either.

Adair,

I like your call on the Yarra Yarra, a terrific wine.


Cheers

Definite fan of cool climate cab sav here (though I am a bit biased being from Melbourne).

The 2000 Domaine A cab sav is a brilliant wine. I opened a single bottle of a six pack a few months ago, and its simply awesome. Yarra Yarra also produced a stunning set of wines in 2000 (particularly the Yarra Yarra and the reserve merlot), and Mount Mary Quintet, though a more delicate style, would have to be one of the most consistent cabernets in the country.

None of these wines is troubled by nasty green characters, though I agree that in a poor vintage, and in the wrong hands, cool climate caberent can produce nasty unripe characteristics.

Q. Can anyone do 707 better than Penfolds?

A. Well probably not, and it is a fantastic style of wine - i love it!

Q. Should everyone try to emulate Penfolds?

A. God save us what a boring world that would be

I agree with Adair

No 91 Bordeaux would mean no 00 Bordeaux

No 93 Hawkes Bay Cab would mean no 98 Hawkes Bay Cab

You can always leave the bad vintages for some other sucker to buy

Gasman wrote:Definite fan of cool climate cab sav here (though I am a bit biased being from Melbourne).

The 2000 Domaine A cab sav is a brilliant wine. I opened a single bottle of a six pack a few months ago, and its simply awesome. Yarra Yarra also produced a stunning set of wines in 2000 (particularly the Yarra Yarra and the reserve merlot), and Mount Mary Quintet, though a more delicate style, would have to be one of the most consistent cabernets in the country.

None of these wines is troubled by nasty green characters, though I agree that in a poor vintage, and in the wrong hands, cool climate caberent can produce nasty unripe characteristics.

Haven't tried any MM or YY but the CH reserve cab is very good, excellent, but don't think it rates exceptional. A bottle of Tahbilk Rsv Cab 91 recently had years ahead of it.

Acronyms are a fact of life.

Best

daz

Hmmm
So the 2001 Devils Lair does have brett but in two bottles I never noticed it as a fault - just part of the complexity of the wine. So there you go. A good example of it not being a fault to my tastes.
GW

Ive never had a 707. Had plenty of other Penfolds Premiums but never 707. How much better than 407 is it both from a good vintage?

Basically the 707 is richer, rounder, more textured and shows a lot more depth of fruit.

No way! Cool climate cabs are here for the long haul.
I couldn;t agree with Adair more, in that there is more highs and lows with cooler climates, but it's worth the wait.
A recent 98 Domain A cab was amazing.

Cheers,

Stuart.

I've always found the better 707s very much to my liking

Tried the 02 yet 707?

No way! Cool climate cabs are here for the long haul.
I couldn;t agree with Adair more, in that there is more highs and lows with cooler climates, but it's worth the wait.
A recent 98 Domain A cab was amazing.

FWIW I have to agree. The likes of Yarra Yarra & Yerringberg convince me that while the warm climates have the consistency, there are some cool climates out there that are worth battling through the inconsistent vintages to discover.

Even the ultra-cool climates can turn out some stunning wines. The 96 & 98 Delatite RJ's for example.

Stuart wrote:No way! Cool climate cabs are here for the long haul.
I couldn;t agree with Adair more, in that there is more highs and lows with cooler climates, but it's worth the wait.
A recent 98 Domain A cab was amazing.

Cheers,

Stuart.

I haven't seriously considered opening a bottle of 707 98 or Dorrien 96 yet. Coldsteam Reserve Cab 00 has drunk very nicely but I suppose it was a warm vintage in the Yarra. Plantagenet 01 has been a favourite, the last, remaining bottle under constant threat of f****t I'm gonna drink ya now coz ya were too cheap!

Hot/warm/cool/cold climate shmiimate. It's contents of the bottle that passes over the palate and pleases that particular palate that counts.

daz

Matt P wrote:

No way! Cool climate cabs are here for the long haul.
I couldn;t agree with Adair more, in that there is more highs and lows with cooler climates, but it's worth the wait.
A recent 98 Domain A cab was amazing.

FWIW I have to agree. The likes of Yarra Yarra & Yerringberg convince me that while the warm climates have the consistency, there are some cool climates out there that are worth battling through the inconsistent vintages to discover.

Even the ultra-cool climates can turn out some stunning wines. The 96 & 98 Delatite RJ's for example.

Yep, you just have to wait for the region to have a hotter than average ripening season and you will turn out a nice drop. Just like the hot years in Bord.

Sort of a self defeating argument really. I like cool climate cabs but only when they come from a warm year. Hmmmm?

Daryl Douglas wrote:Plantagenet 01 has been a favourite, the last, remaining bottle under constant threat of f****t I'm gonna drink ya now coz ya were too cheap!

and commit vinfanticide?

Daz, if you have still have an '01 left (and haven't committed wine crime by now - I could be too late with this post) I would highly recommend you leave that bad boy for a good five years. The wine is still rippling its muscles - I think it'll be drinking best in a decade.

Regarding the thread topic, I must admit I'm a Coonawarra fan over WA at this early stage of my drinking career. However, that is in part due to my limited exposure of cool climate cab - it's so much easier finding a $20-$30 warm climate cab off the shelf than cool climate.

Edited Note: If I can source an '02 707 magnum for AU$170, do I buy buy buy?

Cheers,

Max,

Quick response to your footnote -

In short, yes, yes and bloody well yes!

Tried the 707 at the tasting that kicked this thread off and it was the standout of the night by a long way. I think the "heavily" discounted price for single bottles on the night was $120, so a magnum for $170 makes a pretty strong argument.

Cheers,

Lennie

Plangenet 2002 is not too bad either.

D'Bortoli Yarra Cab is underated. No hype.

D'Bortoli Yarra Cab is underated. No hype.

Maximus wrote:

Daryl Douglas wrote:Plantagenet 01 has been a favourite, the last, remaining bottle under constant threat of f****t I'm gonna drink ya now coz ya were too cheap!

and commit vinfanticide?

Daz, if you have still have an '01 left (and haven't committed wine crime by now - I could be too late with this post) I would highly recommend you leave that bad boy for a good five years. The wine is still rippling its muscles - I think it'll be drinking best in a decade.

Regarding the thread topic, I must admit I'm a Coonawarra fan over WA at this early stage of my drinking career. However, that is in part due to my limited exposure of cool climate cab - it's so much easier finding a $20-$30 warm climate cab off the shelf than cool climate.

Edited Note: If I can source an '02 707 magnum for AU$170, do I buy buy buy?

Cheers,

Fear not big fella, I've resolved to keep the last bottle of Plant CS, and their Shiraz 01 as sacrosanct as my sole bottle of Grange, 96. One of the Dorrien 96s I have will probably go soon though. I'm not a familiar of Wynns BL but chugged through 3 of 6 bottles of 01 recently. Nice wine, more medium than full-bodied, some complexity, so I'll keep the rest for a while, drink'em over the next 6 or so years. A good value ~$20 wine but not at $30.

If you can buy Bin 707 magnums for $170/mag, buy as many as you can afford. Should be an appreciating asset just on vintage and label reputation, though scarcity factor should be considered too.

Presently enjoying a Jacobs Creek Reserve (NOT Limited Release) Shiraz 02 ($12) that I'll finish with antipasto. Good value. I the spirit of this thread, I'll have to try the CS Reserve tomorrow!

Cheers

daz