The Auswine Forum

It is interesting to see the prices Grange is pushed to at time of release and where they sit one to two years down the track.
At a wine auction this week the newly released 2000 was offered and went for $575. At the same auction the 1999 for $242 and 1998 $391.

Regards,
Ron

Yeah you might say suckers, and dont get me wrong, you wouldnt catch me dishing out that sorta money for an avg wine, and I havent had the urge to buy Grange since the 96 but...

In the end if you are collecting a grange vertical the value of one bottle in a vertical is more than the value of an individual bottle stand alone. this is what must drive this 'hysteria' and this is accentuated with rare vintages even if they are crap. I would say most of the customers for an 'on release' 00 grange are vertical collectors.

The only aussie wine i 'collect' is eileen hardy shiraz which now is priced above its quality. it hurts me to buy it, i disagree with its price, but i will buy 2 more to reach 10 vintages even though i know it isnt the best use of the money in pure qpr terms. i am hoping that the insight and enjoyment gained from a vertical tasting will exceed the sum of the individual bottles. if i collected a number of wines i may be tempted to drop the game for EH, but as this is the case for me - it is one of only 3 wines i always buy - why drop the ball on 8 years of disciplined buying for the sake of a few bucks?

Look at 93 Henschke HOG, which in my opinion was a shocking wine but attracted prices that were in no way corrolated to the quality of the vintage. No doubt others with deeper pockets than me are drawn in the same way I am with EH.

I have seen the same in NZ when at an auction I saw 93 Te Mata Awatea (a shocking vintage) reach more than the sublime 98 vintage of the same wine. I shock my head in disbelief, but perhaps someone needed a 93 to complete a vertical for a wine club or special event?? who knows.

lets face it occassionally in our wine buying lifetime we all make decisions that arent based on raw QPR only.

C

Good points, Craig - you're right about the vertical collectors driving the price of certain vintages - the most extreme example, of course, is the first (not commercially released) vintage of Grange, the 1951. According to the few well known critics who've tried this in the past 10 years, it's utterly past it - undrinkable. But because there are so few bottles left, and you've got to have one to possess "the full set", avid collectors have driven the price to 50K+
What I find truly puzzling, though, is the auction prices sometimes paid for desirable wines (often current release) when these very wines can still be found retail for substantially less; perfect example being the Seppelt St Peters 2002 - very highly regarded wine, achieved $90 bid price at the last Langtons auction. That means someone paid over $100 (inc. commission) for wine that can still be found without much trouble for $55 - $65 per bottle.

Mark S wrote:What I find truly puzzling, though, is the auction prices sometimes paid for desirable wines (often current release) when these very wines can still be found retail for substantially less; perfect example being the Seppelt St Peters 2002 - very highly regarded wine, achieved $90 bid price at the last Langtons auction. That means someone paid over $100 (inc. commission) for wine that can still be found without much trouble for $55 - $65 per bottle.

Something just as funny is that people bought the 2000 Gartner Shiraz for $14 and $15 per bottle at the last Langton's auction, when the same wine was available on the Langton's exchange at $9 per bottle. I could not resist a case at $9!

With regard to Grange, I too find it very amusing how the prices rise and drop so quickly. However, I suspect the 2004 Special bins, that are $450 on release, will not ever sell for any cheaper.

Adair

Mark S wrote: perfect example being the Seppelt St Peters 2002 - very highly regarded wine, achieved $90 bid price at the last Langtons auction. That means someone paid over $100 (inc. commission) for wine that can still be found without much trouble for $55 - $65 per bottle.

Let us in on the secret, where can the 2002 St Peters still be found without much trouble?

Adair wrote:With regard to Grange, I too find it very amusing how the prices rise and drop so quickly. However, I suspect the 2004 Special bins, that are $450 on release, will not ever sell for any cheaper.

Adair

Sadly, I think you're probably right about the new Bin 60A - Decanter listing the 1962 as the number 7 "wine to try before you die" has had a meteoric effect on it's auction price, and it's a great commercial move by Penfolds to cash in on this international fame.

The 2004 Block 42 could be a different matter. Straight Australian Cabernet still lacks general international demand (credibility?) to justify the price, no matter how good the wine actually is. Trying to "piggy-back" this with the Bin 60A is again a smart move, but unless the image of Aussie Cabernet really changes overseas it could be in vain.

Cheers
Ian

Anonymous wrote:

Mark S wrote: perfect example being the Seppelt St Peters 2002 - very highly regarded wine, achieved $90 bid price at the last Langtons auction. That means someone paid over $100 (inc. commission) for wine that can still be found without much trouble for $55 - $65 per bottle.

Let us in on the secret, where can the 2002 St Peters still be found without much trouble?

use wine searcher pro

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Mark S wrote: perfect example being the Seppelt St Peters 2002 - very highly regarded wine, achieved $90 bid price at the last Langtons auction. That means someone paid over $100 (inc. commission) for wine that can still be found without much trouble for $55 - $65 per bottle.

Let us in on the secret, where can the 2002 St Peters still be found without much trouble?

use wine searcher pro

or try vintage cellars
c

Hi all,

Auction prices like any market are governed by supply and demand. Prior to about 1990 Grange and other great wines were, believe it or not, actually drunk. There was no huge secondary market and prices were relatively stable. When the world discovered Australian wines the remaining supply was limited so prices went up. In recent times Grange and the like were bought not to drink but as an investment. So with supply still high, prices have difficulty rising particularly when so many are dumping stock on the maket to retrieve their investment.

Chuck

n4sir wrote:

Adair wrote:With regard to Grange, I too find it very amusing how the prices rise and drop so quickly. However, I suspect the 2004 Special bins, that are $450 on release, will not ever sell for any cheaper.

Adair

Sadly, I think you're probably right about the new Bin 60A - Decanter listing the 1962 as the number 7 "wine to try before you die" has had a meteoric effect on it's auction price, and it's a great commercial move by Penfolds to cash in on this international fame.

The 2004 Block 42 could be a different matter. Straight Australian Cabernet still lacks general international demand (credibility?) to justify the price, no matter how good the wine actually is. Trying to "piggy-back" this with the Bin 60A is again a smart move, but unless the image of Aussie Cabernet really changes overseas it could be in vain.

Cheers
Ian

Given that Jancis, apparently, has rated the 2004 Block 42 19/20, and the 2004 Bin 60A (only) 18/20, I was actually thinking vice-versa. 19/20 for Jancis is serious 1st Growth territory, so $450 looks like value for money. I obviously respect Jancis highly!

Adair

Not sure about investments because I dont invest in wine but I have tried many Grange and they are no longer the value for money they once were. The most recent Grange ive tried is the 99 and Id take the 2001 Wolf Blass Platinum Shiraz at half the price even though it has two less years under its belt. One of the best wines ive tasted and when i look at Olivers site ratings seems im not alone. Must get around to the 02 soon. Woops got slightly off topic there.