The Auswine Forum

Thought I'd start this as a seperate post, it originally started under the 2002 St.Peters post.

There's been a few rumblings recently about the greatness of the 1998 vintage. As always, people have their own opinions and there's bound to be heated debate.

I've found a few amongst the lesser wines that haven't progressed but all the big guns I've tried recently are looking good. A problem is of course the dreaded cork which can stuff up opinions if you only try one bottle.

TORB thought the following wines weren't going anywhere

Nine Popes
Fox Creek Reserve Shiraz
Gartner Cab
Tintara Shiraz
Mitchelton Print (possibly)
Lehmann Eight Songs
Mountain Blue
Saltram No 1
Shottesbrooke Eliza
Tollana 222
Veritas Hanisch

What opinion do others have?

707

Recent 98's for me have included Lindeman's Limestone Ridge and Yalumba's Octavius.

I don't understand wines with so much oak, where they are going or if the fruit ever reappears or is drowned in oak nuances.

Halliday rated both highly; he understands oak and the style I am sure. But I can not see how these wines with so much oak dominance ( in both cases char comes through on day two ) can come together in the cellar over time.

On release ( both wines ) there was more rich and ripe primary fruit in evidence. The oak is well and truly on top at the moment. Perhaps the fruit will make a magical reappearance, nicely integrated and in harmonious balance.

There's been a few rumblings recently about the greatness of the 1998 vintage. As always, people have their own opinions and there's bound to be heated debate.

TORB thought the following wines weren't going anywhere

Nine Popes
Fox Creek Reserve Shiraz
Gartner Cab
Tintara Shiraz
Mitchelton Print (possibly)
Lehmann Eight Songs
Mountain Blue
Saltram No 1
Shottesbrooke Eliza
Tollana 222
Veritas Hanisch

I disagree with TORB on the Tintara. As much as I hate using the term "Grange-like", that's exactly what I thought of a bottle I tried last year - absolutely brilliant and yet still so infantile and huge.

Recent 98's for me have included Lindeman's Limestone Ridge and Yalumba's Octavius.

I don't understand wines with so much oak, where they are going or if the fruit ever reappears or is drowned in oak nuances.

I haven't tried the 1998 Limestone Ridge since release, and then it was probably the least obviously oaked vintage I've struck - it's surprising to see it's turned so quickly from Jamie's note.

Overall I always thought 1998 was a bit of a mixed bag, but I haven't struck too many genuine duds. I have noticed like Steve there's been a rather diverse range of development over the last 5 years, especially as some of the Coonawarras are just beginning to wake up now.

Cheers
Ian

The last Saltram No.1 I had was still youthful and looked to have plenty of time ahead of it. I did however buy the first release with the original label and not the later release that introduced the new label. Not sure if that has anything to do with the varied impressions.

Ric, I haven't had an Eliza for a long time so I hope you're not right, it was such a reat wine young.

I always thought the 1999 Gartner was better than the 1998 anyway.

You've got me worried about Eight Songs, Mountain Blue and Nine Popes. Got some analysis to do this winter I fear.

You're right about the oak Jamie, some of our 90s efforts are starting to look clumsy now. I'm glad almost everyone has backed off the oak.

Ian,

Re the Tintara, here is my last TN.

Hardys 1998 Tintara Shiraz July 04

Chocolate, aniseed, sweet vanilla, and plums flow through to a savory palate of blackberry, plum, chocolate, and eucalyptus/mint. There is a subtle underlying sweetness to the palate too. I hope the wine is in a hole, there is a big, solid wall of fine, drying tannin covering the fruit and provided the tannins resolve it will be fine. If the fruit fades, the wine will be kaput. It is hard to drink at the moment and certainly not very enjoyable.

Steve,

With the Eliza, the wine has been over-oaked with French oak and the palate profile is a mouth full of cloves. I think I prefer a mouth full of dill.


The Eight Songs is in its peak drinking window and is dominated by almost over-ripe blackberry fruit and it won't get any better.

According to Charles Melton, the Nine Popes should be drunk over the next couple of years and he wasn't all that happy with its development.

In regruard to the Oaktavious, IMO the wine is probaly in a hole and given another few years, the fruit should reemerge.

I concured with Ric on the Tintara. Weary and losing most of the primary fruits.

Regarding the Mountain Blue, I'm fully convinced Shiraz fr Mudgee is a poor cellaring proposition after been thru several vintages of this & Andrew Harris "Vision".

Chow Chow wrote:I concured with Ric on the Tintara. Weary and losing most of the primary fruits.

Regarding the Mountain Blue, I'm fully convinced Shiraz fr Mudgee is a poor cellaring proposition after been thru several vintages of this & Andrew Harris "Vision".

I've never found any Andrew harris wine that cellars more than a few years. On the other hand, although probably not your style, I have a number of 95 Huntington Estate Reds, including shiraz, that are still going strong.

Hi Torb,

The Veritas Hanisch is still on 'sale' with one leading Hong Kong wine retailer for $650, reduce to clear from $950.

Would you say that this wine has reached a plateau where improvement is unlikely or is it pasted its best.

Cheers,
Andrew

Aussie $$$

Having drank 2 '98 Hanisch, I tot the $$$$$ was absurb. The 1st bt. was marred by a porous cork. The 2nd fared better, a beautifully crafted wine which combined elegance with intensty and it's exceptionally well balance. I sold my last 2 btls. to a OZ retailer last yr for $200 ea. and I'm happy with my proceed which was a tidy 100% R.O.I.
btw. I didnt buy mine fr the mailer.

Parkers pts aside. Fr the Binder's stable, I much prefered his his Branson Coach House '98 and the Magpie Election '01 & 02.

Festival wrote:Hi Torb,

The Veritas Hanisch - would you say that this wine has reached a plateau where improvement is unlikely or is it pasted its best.
Andrew

Andrew,

It has peaked but it won't get any better. The rich fruit has faded (to be expected as a wine ages) but the wine has developed a bit of harshness. It was best on release. The price went insane due to Arpys points.

Thanks for the note. I wasn't the least bit interested in purchasing the wine. Just thought that I should share one example of the 1998 pricing hike in experienced in Hong Kong.

I'll look forward to my Election 01's. I haven't been posting any tasting notes, as 99% of my wine is in Aus and I am in HK.

Andrew

Thanks for the note. I wasn't the least bit interested in purchasing the wine. Just thought that I should share one example of the 1998 pricing hike in experienced in Hong Kong.

I'll look forward to my Election 01's. I haven't been posting any tasting notes, as 99% of my wine is in Aus and I am in HK.

Andrew

Andrew, do get some '02 Election. Better depth and a step up fr the '01.

"...builds like a runaway train in the mouth. It exhibits abundant amounts of blackberry and cassis flavors, considerable body, well-integrated acidity, wood, and tannin, and a long finish"
Wine Advocate #155 (Oct 2004)

TORB wrote:Ian,

Re the Tintara, here is my last TN.

Hardys 1998 Tintara Shiraz July 04

Chocolate, aniseed, sweet vanilla, and plums flow through to a savory palate of blackberry, plum, chocolate, and eucalyptus/mint. There is a subtle underlying sweetness to the palate too. I hope the wine is in a hole, there is a big, solid wall of fine, drying tannin covering the fruit and provided the tannins resolve it will be fine. If the fruit fades, the wine will be kaput. It is hard to drink at the moment and certainly not very enjoyable.

In comparison here's my tasting note that I posted 5/12/2004 Ric:

1998 Hardys Tintara McLaren Vale Reserve Shiraz: Massive amount of crusting over the whole bottle surface from the capsule to the base – as usual this was decanted through a breatheasy to give it a 2 hour kick-start and filter out the chunkiest bits. Incredible, glass-hugging, inky purple/red (almost black) with an intimidating glowing purple hue – more like a current premium release, not a 1998! A huge, complex mixture of ripe Shiraz and American oak on the nose that borders Grange-like intensity; coconut, cinnamon, plums, milk chocolate, blood and formic acid, with hints of beetroot, fireplace/charred bricks, espresso and perfumed violets. The palate is just as brawny and intimidating, with an attack of sweet fruit, huge gum-sucking tannins and VA on entry, lingering coconut and mud-chocolate on the finish, with hints of licorice, black olives, mocha and espresso. In a word – WOW.

Andrew, do get some '02 Election. Better depth and a step up fr the '01.

"...builds like a runaway train in the mouth. It exhibits abundant amounts of blackberry and cassis flavors, considerable body, well-integrated acidity, wood, and tannin, and a long finish"
Wine Advocate #155 (Oct 2004)
_________________
PURPLE TONGUE

Agree with you on the '02 Election - it topped my scores in last year's Blacktongues Super Shiraz II tasting in a top field.


Cheers
Ian

I still think the '98 Saltram #1 is a monumental wine. Don't agree with Ric on this one. The Mt. Blue, I agree, is dead in the water. Too bad.
The Mitchelton Print is a pleasant surprise. Good from the beginning and developing just fine. The Fox Creek, a great wine at the beginning, went through a tough phase. It is just emerging and still has potential for greatness.

Overall, I'm still very positive on the '98's.

Brian

I opened a '98 Popes a month or so ago because of posts on this Forum commenting that it was 'tired' etc.

My bottle, was a tight, black beast with plenty of oomph in the tank and certainly not tired. As for 'where it's going', the others are going back in the cellar for another 4-5 years when this baby will be drinking beautifully.

-- George Krashos

Brian Corcoran wrote:The Mitchelton Print is a pleasant surprise. Good from the beginning and developing just fine.

Overall, I'm still very positive on the '98's.

Brian

Brian,

I'm with you on the Mitchelton Print. I had this about four months ago and it was fantastic. No tasting note unfortunately but even though I believe the wine will cellar ten years plus (and probably benefit from this), I'm going to find it real hard to leave what I have alone.

Cheers,

Hmm, I dunno about all this.

I have 65 wines from 50 wineries across all wine regions from the 98 vintage and I honestly have yet to have one that I would say was crap, and that includes WA which has a particularly porr year in 98.

I was also at the Peel shiraz challenge last September which had shiraz from the 98 vintage, and apart from the Frogs it was pretty hard to find a disappointing wine.

The 98 Grange, St Peters, Rockies BP, Torbreck RR, Jim Barry Ah Ma, were bloody sensational.

Oh well, the more disappointment there is with 98 the better the buying will be at auction. Lovely I say.

George Krashos wrote:I opened a '98 Popes a month or so ago because of posts on this Forum commenting that it was 'tired' etc.

My bottle, was a tight, black beast with plenty of oomph in the tank and certainly not tired. As for 'where it's going', the others are going back in the cellar for another 4-5 years when this baby will be drinking beautifully.

-- George Krashos

George,

When I tried a bottle of 98 Nine Popes last year, my findings were similar to yours, however I asked the man who made wine what he thought last month. Drink over the next couple of years was the answer. When I told him of my findings, he put it down to "a perfect cork" and said the rest are likely to not last as long.

I tried the nine popes late last year and the owner was disappointed with the wine's evolution and premature development, especially, to use his words, when the wine was looking so attractive as a youngster. Melton's '98 Shiraz (served at the same sitting) looked a little tired as well, also being marred by a bilgy oak character.

As to the general condition of the '98 reds, over the last year I have disliked quite a few - e.g. the Bowen Shiraz and Cabernet, Rosemount Show Reserve Coonawarra, Richmond Grove Coonawarra Cab, Tollana TR222, Wynns Black Label.

Others such as Devil's Lair, Moss Wood, Cullen, Seppelt Dorrien (seemingly a faster developer to the norm bit still an very good/excellent drink), Henschke Keyneton, Seppelt St Peters, Rockford BP and the Mitchelton Print all passed the test with (varying degrees of) flying colours.

A word of warning though - I've found reds can go through a "shut down" phase which manifests itself by the wines seeming tough, losing the opulent "baby fat" fruit often present at release. I've written (and fobbed) off quite a few wines over the years only to have egg on my face when they resurface looking much better some years later. Red Burgundies are renowned for doing this.

David Lole wrote:A word of warning though - I've found reds can go through a "shut down" phase which manifests itself by the wines seeming tough, losing the opulent "baby fat" fruit often present at release. I've written (and fobbed) off quite a few wines over the years only to have egg on my face when they resurface looking much better some years later. Red Burgundies are renowned for doing this.

David,

You are, of course, correct. Given that we have both been drinking plonk for about the same number of years, we should (most of the time) be able to tell the difference between an Aussie wine that has shut down wine and one that's fading or that has developed faster than expected.

I might have to have another go at a Print given all this positive support.

Torb how is the 1998 Virgin Hills going?

I drank the Virgin Hill 1998, 4 yrs ago and I was overly distraught. It'll forever basked in the limelight as the pioneer of "organic wine", nothing more. How will it improve in the bottle is beyond my wildest imagination