The Auswine Forum

Read what Jo thought of the new Penfolds releases:
http://www.onwine.com.au/news/insider/d ... le_id=6419

Torb,

Can't see it unless registered

Any chance of para-phrasing?

Popov

Popov wrote:Torb,

Can't see it unless registered

Any chance of para-phrasing?

Popov

Second that if possible please.

Also What was the length {finish} like on the 96 and 98 when released? I was dissapointed with the 2002 389 in this respect is it something that comes with age?

I tasted all bar the 128 at the local VC a week ago - not particularly impressed. The 28 and 407 are 14.5% alcohol, which I really think is too high - yet 407 still has green flavours.

I'm sorry, I think Southcorp are stretching quantities of these wines beyond all reason. I dare someone from Southcorp to come on here and give us production figures in cases for 1996 to 2002. Has anything increased by les than double? (you know what I mean)? I'll bet it hasn't.

I hope St Henri defies the trend. Might be getting close to the only Penfolds red I'll consider buying these days - unless they'd like to reconsider their pricing.

cheers,
Graeme

GraemeG wrote: Has anything increased by les than double? (you know what I mean)? I'll bet it hasn't.

Doesn't mean they aren't stretching it, but local (initial?) allocations seem to be less than last year and stocks are selling out already in some places. I don't know if more has gone overseas or there will be a second allocation "found" at a later stage. I noticed one on-line retailer briefly listed the 407 as sold out, it seems to be on offer again.

Red Bigot wrote:

Popov wrote:Torb,
Can't see it unless registered
Any chance of para-phrasing?
Popov

Sorry, thought I checked after I logged off, thought it was in the open area.

BTW TORB is the bald guy with the beard, I'm the bald guy with the moustache. A lot of people get us confused, I don't know why, I'm much more handsome than he is.

Thanks and sorry for that Brian

I realised later but didn't bother fixing it because I know how much you like being called TORB

Cheers
Popov

Hello

Sorry all, the post was removed by me as it had information taken from JO's web site, and was a copyright infringement.

Fair call Gavin.

For those interested, Winefront has released its notes publicly at:

http://www.winefrontmonthly.com.au/events.htm

no copyright infringement. just thought the odd folk might be interested while healthy stocks are still around.

Campbell.
(though if you want to subscribe, please, please, please feel free).

Anonymous wrote:
Campbell.
(though if you want to subscribe, please, please, please feel free).

I agree, please do!

Campbell,

I agree with you on both the bin 28 and 389 but the 128 MAY be a batching problem as there was a huge difference between 2 bottles I tasted about 4-6 weeks apart. My first tasting matched yours almost down to the last dot - except that I would have awarded an even lower score - but the tasting on the weekend (without being earthshattering) presented a competent wine. Now there was no corking/TCA or heat problem - so I am at a loss to explain the enromous difference...

Second time round tasting the Penfolds 02 releases (ok 03 for bin 138 - but that was never in the hunt):_

"Confirmed most of my first time round tasting notes

a) bin 389 head and shoulders above the rest - but so it should be for price; clearly best 389 since 98 - but not as good as 96, very different within style parameters from 98 but probably on or just short of par for quality. Obviously cellaring quality but approachable now (which they have been since 96 vintage).

b) bin 28: thank goodness a retrun to form but needs time. Probably not quite as good as 98 but very close in quality and again not as up-front fruit. I was slightly surprised to find that (according to the bottle) the time in oak had been reduced from 15 months to 12 months, and there was some alcoholheat with a sense of volatility which should integrate with time . I know a lot of people drink them early but from about a decade the Penfolds style shiraz becomes so much better. On this showing - not before 2010 - and preferably round 2012;

c) bin 128 which I had been very disappointed with on first tasting, showed much better this time round but was still not a "buy", although there was much less in it. Just finished a little bit shorter and fruit seemed a little pungent compared with great vintages of 128 (eg 1991) on release.

d) bin 407: stylistically it does not commend itself (just not CS to me) but far better made than last 3 vintages

e) bin 138 : not up to last year's 02, but not a preferred style anyway;

f) TH range: may consider PIM if desperate.... "

When you consider pricing on bin 28 it is a pretty good buy - albeit we will never see another 1986 quality kalimna, or probably even 1990!

fred

The mix of notes on the Bin 389 are interesting. Campbell's TNs on Wine Front Monthly are the first I've seen to actually mention the Cabernet in the wine! Good onya Campbell!; might just subscribe afterall.

When I tasted the wine the Cabernet aromas took a little while but did come up and do play a big (and attractive) role in the flavor profile of the wine. I'm not sure that its as structurally complete as others have suggested but I've only tasted it once. As a Cab/Shiraz mix its worth adding to the cellar, I'm just not sure I need any more 2002s right now.

Mike

Gavin Trott wrote:Hello

Sorry all, the post was removed by me as it had information taken from JO's web site, and was a copyright infringement.

There is no general provision in our Copyright Act allowing people to make “fair use” of copyright material
without permission. Rather, the law states that “fair dealing” with copyright material will not infringe copyright
if it is done for any of the following purposes:
• research or study;
• criticism or review;
• reporting news; or
• professional advice by a lawyer, patent attorney or trade marks attorney.

I've now tasted the 2002 penfolds at 3 different tastings and if anything I am less enamoured of them the more I tasted and reflected on what has gone before under their Bin banner.

I wrote this under TORBs weekly wine TNs last Sunday

"Agree Attila about the Bin 389 , actually think it is the only 2002 Penfolds other than the (2002) Bin 138 which is a must buy - the Bin 28 was ok but nothing earth shathering - there are other shiraz around the same price that have more complexity and interest."


On reflection I may have been even a bit too easy on the Bin 389 relative to its price. What I miss in all these Bin numbers is the plushness and depth of flavour and even old vine "sweetness" that one used to find in great years of Penfolds - such as 1990, 1991 and 1996. I remember tasting all these wines around the same time on release and I recall I was far more impressed with their depth of fruit and richness than these wines.

Last night I popped up to the local bottleshop and bought a 2002 Yalumba Barossa Shiraz for a tenner. This is made off 23-35 year old barossa shiraz vines with a touch of viognier. Now this had far more fruit depth than the bin 28 and much longer length and yet it is half the cost of the Bin 28. Go figure.

Originally I was going to buy a 6 bottle case of the Bin 389, now I'm not sure.

By the way checked the lot numbers on all the 2002 and all were bottled in 2003 around the 235 th day - approximately August which works out about 12 months maturation in american oak after fermentation etc.

Cheers

Paul

Regardless of what they claim Penfolds wines are designed to get alot better with some time under their belt.I couldnt count the number of times ive walked into wineries and their basic wines are much more approachable and fruity than their top of the range classics.Sit on the top wines for a while and most of the time they change for the better by a long shot and you cant compare.

I can't wait to get some 2002 RWT's to add to my 98's.I am expecting good things.

deleted

I tried the 407 tonight and whilst theres slight herbs and acidity there i think it will be the goods in about 5 years.

Interesting comments Sean. Here in San Diego the shop I buy a lot of Aussie wine from has the 2002 Bin 389 and the 2001 Bin 28; no other Bin numbered wines so far. I asked where the 2002 Bin 28 was and was told that the 2001 was what they had been given.

A place I buy on-line from has the 2002 Bin 389 and the Bin 138. But the Bin 28 is again 2001.

Wine Searcher pulled up one shop (on the East Coast of the USA) that has the 2002 Bin 28. But its the only 2002 Bin numbered wine they have! Their Bin 389 is 2001.

Mike

KMP wrote:Interesting comments Sean. Here in San Diego the shop I buy a lot of Aussie wine from has the 2002 Bin 389 and the 2001 Bin 28; no other Bin numbered wines so far. I asked where the 2002 Bin 28 was and was told that the 2001 was what they had been given.

A place I buy on-line from has the 2002 Bin 389 and the Bin 138. But the Bin 28 is again 2001.

Wine Searcher pulled up one shop (on the East Coast of the USA) that has the 2002 Bin 28. But its the only 2002 Bin numbered wine they have! Their Bin 389 is 2001.

Mike

There is a lot of the 2001 around, maybe they will try to move it a bit longer by dribbling out the 2002 as a kind of reward for moving the 2001?

platinum wrote:I can't wait to get some 2002 RWT's to add to my 98's.I am expecting good things.

Platinum,

I haven't tried the '98 RWT but tasted and purchased some of the '99 RWT which I think is fantastic. I thought it was a 'no brainer' to buy some '98 RWT, given the vintage conditions in the Barossa, but strangely enough, haven't heard a good thing about it. Have you tried it or did you purchase based on vintage? Would be interested to hear your thoughts, on the '99 and any follow up vintages too if you've tried them. Like you, I'm also drooling at the prospect of '02 RWT. If they make it right, will be hard to drink a better wine in 10-15 years.

Cheers,

Maximus..I have tried the 98 and for my palate its a super wine but wont even look at mine for another 8-10 years minimum. There are some good reviews on this wine around too Jeremy Olivers 97 points is one that comes to mind.

I have a 97 which i will dring in the next 12-24 months. Not in the same league as the 98 its good for the vintage though i will be interested to see how far its come since then.

Havnt tried the 99 as i was out of the country most of that year and missed its release though i always hear good things.If i come across one at the right price at auction i might get one to see what the hypes about.

2000 was pretty good for the vintage but not worth the price.

Havnt tried the 2001 but have no interest to the way its getting bad reports and hanging around in every outlet like yesterdays sandwiches. Havnt heard a good thing about it.

2002??? Expecting good things.

platinum wrote: Havnt tried the 2001 but have no interest to the way its getting bad reports and hanging around in every outlet like yesterdays sandwiches. Havnt heard a good thing about it.

2002??? Expecting good things.

Penfolds 2001 RWT SA2004 sells for about $130-150. Almost black in colour, this is a glass stainer. The bouquet screams “I am serious but I am going to keep you in suspense” but it is youthful, complex and shows perfumed fruit, liquorice and spice. The first sip indicates fantastic fruit. None of your overripe 2001 fermented prune juice here; it is beautiful, fresh, vibrant deeply seated and shows black plums, lots of liquorice and chocolate that finishes with great length. Complexity is well developed and the abundant, dusty, drying tannins back the fruit with an excellent rock-solid structure. It is a well-balanced, full-bodied, serious, long-term wine that is worthy of long-term cellaring and should not be approached till 2014+. Rated as Excellent with *** for value, the rating will improve as the wine matures, it is just a matter of by how much.

(The biggest problem is the price!)

Penfold's 2002 RWT has loads of everything in the right proportions but needs a long time to settle down. Whilst it's an excellent wine, I preferred the previous vintage, however given time in the bottle, the dominant, grippy tannins should integrate and the fruit should surface which should make it a whole lot more enjoyable.

Thanks for the notes Ric - much appreciated.

Based on that evaluation, I may purchase a bottle of the 2001 and the 2002. When was/is the '02 realised? Was your tasting barrel sample?

Maximus,

The 02 will be released in May. It was an impression of the finished wine, I have a full tastting note written amonst 200+ others that will form part of the Tour Diary. See http://www.torbwine.com.au Drops 'n Dregs Section for lots more detail.

Thanks for you notes Torb.

Would you rate the 2002 Magill ahead of the RWT? How long do you think each should live for?

Will be eager to give 707 a go too after your positive review. Havnt been a fan of this for a few years.

Plati,

The Magill was a favourite in the line-up and was far more enjoyable than the RWT. Not sure how long the Magill will live for, possibly 10 years but the RWT will not be approacable for almost that long.