The Auswine Forum

Why is shiraz so popular?
I am mainly a red drinker, and I buy the least shiraz out of all the major varietals. Don't get me wrong - there are bloody fantastic shriaz wines out there, it's just that there is a dissapointing sameness about them all. Climatic variation aside, most shirazes taste very, very similar. I don't think they reflect regionality or vineyard of origin very well at all - at least compared to cabernet and pinot noir.
Thus I stopped buying shiraz because I know that if I get a bottle of cool- climate shiraz for instance, it will taste like that last bottle of cool-climate shiraz I brought from a different vineyard.
Basically shiraz makes very good wine but it is boring.
Now I mostly buy pinot, because of all the varietals I think that it reflects terroir more than any other and I know I will get something different in each bottle - even if quailty is patchy.
Or maybe I am missing something...

Alex wrote:Thus I stopped buying shiraz because I know that if I get a bottle of cool- climate shiraz for instance, it will taste like that last bottle of cool-climate shiraz I brought from a different vineyard.
Basically shiraz makes very good wine but it is boring.
Now I mostly buy pinot, because of all the varietals I think that it reflects terroir more than any other and I know I will get something different in each bottle - even if quailty is patchy.
Or maybe I am missing something...

Alex, you are obviously a masochist! Are you talking about Australian pinot "reflecting terroir"?

Sorry, I can't agree with you, I'm constantly amazed at the nuances of vintage and region and maker within region for shiraz (and cabernet), these wines have kept may interest for 30 years or more and I'm still impressed with the variety of styles from one grape. And thats just Australian wines, I'd drink a lot more French Shiraz if I could afford the good ones.

What price-range of shiraz are you talking about? At the cheaper levels (under $20 these days, its mostly over $20 for decent shiraz, although there are exceptions) there is certainly a degree of sameness, with some standout exceptions, but in the $20-$40 range where I mostly buy, with excursions above that, there are endless choices of distinctive wines. You just have to try a lot, read a lot and buy carefully to find the ones that are not "all the same".

Just one example, along Krondorf Rd in the Barossa, from St Hallets to Rockford to Charles Melton, you have at least three distinctive shiraz that both reflect Barossa and the individual styles of the winery/maker, more if you count the Blackwell and Old Block and the Rockford SVS series, plus the sparkling shiraz from each of these makers are distinctly different, but recognisably Barossa.

If you can't see the manifold differences between Mt Langi Ghiran, Seppelts Gt Western and Craiglee or Bannockburn or Plantagenet Mt Barker, Rutherglen (eg Warrabilla), MclarenVale, Clare and Langhorne Ck etc (even the Hunter, Mudgee or Orange), then you have my heartfelt commiserations and best wishes with the Pinot. I would suggest though after an (inevitable) particularly tough run with Pinots you may want to have a "good wine" made from reliable old Shiraz, the boredom may have worn off a bit by then.

RedBigot,
Thanks for your honest and witty reply.
I think many of the nuances between the wines you mention could still be climate related - like I mentioned.
However, many of those more expensive wines you mentioned I found very similar. Mt Langi Ghiran and Seppelts St Peters - very similar. Bannockburn - at least the 2001 very similar to other cool-cliamte particularly Mornington Penninsula shiraz like Paringa Estate. I also recently tasted 1998 Baileys Block 1904 side by side with St Henri 1999 no one at my table could pick the difference blind.
These are all great wines mind you.
Perhaps my palate needs more training in the nuances of shiraz. I definately can not boast 30 years of wine drinking experience!
Thanks,
Alex.

Because Shiraz is Australia's red, and we're all patriots!

Alex,

I think an excellent example of differences in shiraz in a fairly small radius would be those of the so called "golden mile" in the Barossa. Greenock Creek, Schubert, Kalleske and Torbreck are all virtually neighbours, yet their wines are completely different from one another. Granted they are sometimes hard to find (though get on their mailing lists and you should be OK), but these differences are well worth exploring. If you do happen to try them, I would be interested to read your thoughts.

Cheers

Mike

Alex wrote:Thanks for your honest and witty reply.
I think many of the nuances between the wines you mention could still be climate related - like I mentioned.

True, that's one great aspect of shiraz, there are climate-induced differences between regions. But you can't say the climate is all that different along a few kilometres of Krondorf Rd. or the core of the Barossa as Mike said.

Alex wrote:However, many of those more expensive wines you mentioned I found very similar. Mt Langi Ghiran and Seppelts St Peters - very similar. Bannockburn - at least the 2001 very similar to other cool-cliamte particularly Mornington Penninsula shiraz like Paringa Estate. I also recently tasted 1998 Baileys Block 1904 side by side with St Henri 1999 no one at my table could pick the difference blind.

I could possibly agree with th Bannockburn/Paringa Estate similarity, but there are differences between those tow as well as similarities. The others I can't understand, the MLG Shiraz with it's characteristic white pepper in most vintages is mostly a quite a different wine to the St Peters. The old-oaked St Henri is also quite a different wine to the quite oaky Baileys (I have some 91 Baileys that is still a monster and completely different to the 91 St Henri). If you and your tasting group can't tell the difference (as opposed to picking the wines, that takes experience or preferring one over the other, that is personal) then perhaps it might be time for some formal training.

I can only suggest you start looking for the differences in the wines, rather than the similarities, it's the same for any variety of wine, including Pinot, it's the the attractive differences and complexities that make the good wines stand out from the crowd and from each other.

Alex, in the end it's all about personal preferences, you have every right to drink what you like. I hope you have the patience to cope with your focus on pinots, I'm afraid I don't.

I am a reasonably frequest visitor to Australia and have only recently been taking the time to become more acquainted with the wonderful range of wines and styles available there. Sorry 707, but I have even been known to enjoy some of the see-thru stuff! Anyway, during my last visit in November, I made my 3rd visit to the Barossa and had the good fortune to be shown some of the premium, small producer wineries mentioned by Mike Hawkins. Rockford, Greenock Creek, Kaesler, and Torbreck were all stops I made. I've got others on the radar screen for another visit. These wineries all produce wonderful wines across their range of offerings, and all are distinctly different in the Shiraz they make, especially some magnificent ones at the top end with old vines.

The commercial stuff we get in America is OK, and I do enjoy most Aussie shiraz, but there can be some sameness at the lower end. But I had my eyes opened this last trip and must say there was a WOW factor on some I had the pleasure to taste. The challenge is to find those special drops, and in my developing appreciation of the Barossa, the search is worth the reward. I can't for a minute say they are all the same.

I too like Pinot, but for my personal preferece, I find myself going more toward bigger wines like the better shiraz I have been discovering.

"Shiraz not expresseive of soils! "

Whoah baby, where do I start!
Many bottles ago I made wine for a winery which had 7 different Shiraz soils. Gravels, sands, Heavy clay, shirty grey clay, sand over clay etc.

Lwt me state emphatically they were all widely different, even when picked over a narrow ripeness range. If you start getting into Shaded canopy, immature fruit, uneven fruit, (cool climate stuff) the styles of Shiraz are very varied! Light soils perfumed clays for colour tannin etc and combinations thereof.

Shiraz is so popular because 100 days approx after flowering the berry stem fails.... causing flaccid fruit or shrivelling of the berries, concentrating up colour, sugar tannin etc.

No other variety does this like Shiraz. Hence no other variety responds to water stress in the same way. Water stress is easily manipulated in warm dry clmates, perhaps not every year, but most.

Therefore Shiraz is the most expressive variety, not the least!

Cheers

Smithy

If you want every bottle to taste different, just make sure that you insist on bottles sealed with cork.

Kieran

smithy wrote:8)

"Shiraz not expresseive of soils! "


Therefore Shiraz is the most expressive variety, not the least!

Cheers

Smithy

Smithy did not even mention the use of oak, another differential.
MM.

PS - Just to get Smithy's blood boiling who's going to say " all Durifs taste the same because.........".

Alex
I don't profess to have access to the best wines but I think part of what you say might be related to the market saturation of Shiraz. Perhaps it is a case of familiarity breeds contempt. I drink Shiraz from different regions and I find something different in each, some have minor variations and some vastly contrasting.

Pinot on the other hand is still a bit of a mystery for Aust and is evolving gradually which accounts for the variation in styles. Tassie is probably the only place in Aust to make really really good Pinot, and even then it is hit and miss with the climate thing. I think Pinot is a fascinating and intriguing wine but if I could drink the best France has to offer I might say they are very similar too.

Colin

Alex there is a world of difference between one shiraz and another. Just ask all the experts!

But if you really want something different get into the new varietals. There are about 100 produvcers of Sangiovese in Australia, and probably about half taht many of Tempranillo. And then we have Petit verdot. Forget what the experts say and try some PV from the irrigation districts, thay are great wines.

Back to shiraz, I think we are at the stage where we were with cabernet 10-15 years ago when the realisation dawned that straight cab sav could be a pretty boring stuff. The Cab merlot blends helped, but much cabernet is now destined to be made into vinegar.

The saviour for shiraz may be co-pigmentation with viognier, or the Blends with grenache and mourvedre. I recall a time in the dim past when men were men and we drank claret, preferably from the Barossa. Revisionist history has it that the main ingredient was shiraz (called hermitage in those days) but I suspect that there was a good dollop of grenache in more than a few of them. The label would never reveal such secrets though.

So Alex, release yourself from the shiraz shackles and take a trip into Vinodiversity.