The Auswine Forum

I have a chance to grab a bottle of bottle of Penfolds Grange 2018 (offload from a friend, at his cost price) at $500. I never have a chance to taste a Grange and I already have a 2017 Grange in the cellar. Do you think $500 justify the price? Or should I use the same amount of money for a better highly rated alternatives (eg. Runrig, Astralis, Rockford, Wendouree or Standish etc)? Thanks.

Personally no. Especially if you've not tasted a Grange yet, as how would you know it suits you (rather than those that sell their opinions)?

You've got that bottle of the 2017 to look forward to, so you'll be able to say you've had a Grange. For some, that's the main reason for buying it, and one reason they've been able to push the price ever upwards.

I'd say instead invest the $500 in pursuing wines that align to your own tastes (and likewise not spending it on other 'highly rated wines' you've never tasted).

$500 invested in learning more about what you like, will *repay you handsomely in the long run, so I'd say spend it on tastings / offlines, or at least a case of wines to explore different grapes / styles.

... and I reckon that holds true 10, 20, 30+ years into the hobby.

* Unless that exploration hits red burgundy, as that will drain the wallet even faster

Thanks for your comment. I understand and even 50% from the RRP is still a very expensive wine for me and I can find a lot of alternative. I agree with you that I should purse the wines that I enjoy rather than obsessed by the so called iconic or collectable wines.

Sometimes its hard to neglect the rating from the wine critic when buying wines. All the 'highly rated' wines that I mentioned are not cheap as well but they have similar rating (just one or two points lower) to the Grange. Unfortunately without spending I don't know why these wines are so highly sought-after.

Maybe I should think carefully about my wine joinery again. Life is too short. At the end of day maybe it happened like my friend who need to offload his collection from time to time.

Depends on your individual circumstance. If dropping $500 on a bottle is a drop in the ocean, go for it. If not, $500 worth of wine over numerous producers opens up heaps of opportunities. Buy from 2021 or 2022 vintages over 2018. 2017 was wet, cold and a flood year - avoid.

AUew wrote: ↑Sun Oct 13, 2024 11:34 am
Sometimes its hard to neglect the rating from the wine critic when buying wines. All the 'highly rated' wines that I mentioned are not cheap as well but they have similar rating (just one or two points lower) to the Grange. Unfortunately without spending I don't know why these wines are so highly sought-after.

Yes, it's not easy to ignore the critics, with their easy to understand 100 point ratings of wine, that make finding the 'best' wines appear so simple.

I was lucky with Grange to find a tasting of it in 1990 or 1991 (Probably 1986 or 1985 vintage). That was near the start of my wine journey, and a real shock to me that I could justify a £25 wine as offering value for money There was no doubt to me that Grange had intensity and complexity of the sort I'd never encountered before. I didn't buy a bottle then, as I had no cellar / storage options, but did end up buying a bottle of the 1991 vintage, which I still have. It was a lot more money than £25, and even at the time I felt the value in the price was probably already gone, but I could afford it, so was persuaded by my partner to buy a bottle.

I've bought plenty of wine I've never tasted before, and I'm sure most here do. It's ok . However it's advisable to avoid going deep on a wine, building a theoretically 'fine cellar', until you're sure it's a style you like, but I'm very much a believer in buying single bottles as a way to explore outside of current interests. Tasting events, be they big walkround tastings, winery visits, tutored tastings, gathering with friends / wine friends to taste wines, or merely having a tasting glass when in a wine shop, are all brilliant to open new paths up, or get a better feel for wines. The big walkround events possibly the worst way to taste wine (palate fatigue is certainly a challenge), but they've been a great way for me to explore new areas, sometimes starting a whole new path, other times giving me the confidence to walk away from a wine region / style / grape.

I have been drinking Grange for decades. When at uni, I purchased the 1976 at release for $12.50 a bottle, my first full dozen purchase. In those days, Wolf Blass Black label was more expensive, as was Leeuwin estate chardy when first released. Drinking a bottle of Grange on weekends in the 70's was not thought a big deal, uncle Dan used to sell the 1970's stuff for around $11 on release.
I have had every vintage of the stuff up until 2012, not since (including the 1953, 1958, and 1955 multiple times)
in the "old days" (I'm talking late 70's early 80's) it was the only recognised super-premium SA red. It had no competition and was very clearly the best red from that State, including Hill of Grace. Over the past 40 years, Australia as begun to produce a myriad of super-premium red wines, and the multi-regional Grange has, IMO, become quite anonymous.
seen Grange in blind line-ups of Aussie shiraz at least 20 times, probably a lot more, and whilst it is almost always on the podium, I cannot ever recall any vintage coming out as the WOTN. Yanks love it because they drink very little Aussie wines in general, and it becomes a show-stopper for them, in a similar way that Napa cab can be an absolute show stopper for us.
my favourite vintage have always been the 55 and the 71, but I can think of a heap of Australian red wines I reckon are better than those.
so, to cut the ramble short, is it worth $500?
yes, if you are a billionaire or a big-breasted influencer, and want to try it or be seen drinking it.
no, if you are the rest of the general population.
it's a good wine, but the quite absurd price rise starting after the 1990 vintage was wholly unjustified, and like so many French wines, youm are paying an awful lot for what is on the outside of the bottle, not what is in the inside.

Thanks. I only started drinking wines and exploring the wine world for around 20 years by the time when I can afford drinking wines regularly. I was highly influenced by the colleagues and friends, obsessed to so called the iconic wines which the price was unaffordable to me. Now the RRP is even higher, and with higher income it seems that I can afford to buy a couple of iconic wines, but not more than 2. Sometimes I really admire people who have tons of aged Grange or Hill of Grace which the price was pretty low 20 - 30 years ago.

Now I am thinking and talking to myself, is it really necessary and justified to pay that money nowadays? The wine industries boomed for many years. Many new vineyards and new winemakers can produce high quality wines, and the price tag is only a fraction of the Grange. They may not classified as iconic maybe just because they are still relatively new in the industry. A good example is Standish I would say.

I'm sure we've all been influenced by others, be they critics, friends, colleagues or drinking associates. I know I have, although the effect is more subtle now.

In terms of value for money, the most prestigious rarely offer anything near value as a pure drink (I'd probably only include Avignonesi's vin santo from personal experience, but others may have examples from their own). It wasn't always like that, as even e.g. 1st growth clarets used to be affordable 3-4 decades ago. In that time, not just those wines have launched into oligarch pricing, but also other big names in well-known regions. For those that bought whilst affordable, such bottles are a reward for foresight (or luck), but it can also oddly be a weight on their mind, that rather than thinking it's the AUD 60 bottle they bought on release, it now has a market value of AUD600, and can they even justify drinking it now?

For me there is strong value once we get beyond supermarket / commodity wines, and value can be superb at ~AUD 25-40, and still good for a while above those prices.

However... wine also has the potential for truly memorable experiences, and sometimes it's absolutely fine to pursue that (in enough moderation that it doesn't exceed a reasonable budget). As you have a Grange already, maybe consider an alternative for an additional 'special treat' wine. Ideally something in a style you expect to like from your own current tastes.

Good luck with whatever you choose!

No...to the question.
I have about half a dozen bottles from the 1986 and 90 vintages, some have been to the red wine clinic, all supposedly in good nick. Unicorns, might drink them one day.
But 2 dozen bottles of Wynns 2021 BL in exchange for a bottle of Grange (your quoted price of $500), 6 bottles of Bests Bin 0 for a bottle of Grange, 10 bottles of Seppelts St Peters for a bottle of Grange, 6 Basket Press for a bottle of Grange...you get the picture
Cheers Craig

$500 is probably as good a price as you’ll pay for Grange including via auction particularly from highly regarded vintages. If you want a bottle for the collection, this is probably the one.

Cheers Ed

Thank you. Eventually I didn't go for it.