The Auswine Forum

12 Wynns 2022 BL Cabernet
12 Wynns 2022 BL Shiraz

Cheers Craig

6 x 2023 Ch. Pichon Lalande.
Force of habit I guess - I hope to be around when it's drinkable!

Would certainly like to get into Bordeaux...but don't really know where to begin.
Cheers Craig

phillisc wrote: ↑Tue Jul 02, 2024 12:49 pm Would certainly like to get into Bordeaux...but don't really know where to begin.
Cheers Craig

Twenty years ago

Cheers Con.

Yes heard that analogy Con...a bit like being in the garden and thinking should I have planted that tree.
Still one day maybe
Cheers Craig

phillisc wrote: ↑Tue Jul 02, 2024 12:49 pm Would certainly like to get into Bordeaux...but don't really know where to begin.
Cheers Craig

It's certainly not too late.
Couple of steps to begin will give you a great leg-up;

1) Get to know Bordeaux vintages ( repeat their ratings in your sleep!). I cross reference Berry Bros & Rudd vintage ratings with Wine Spectator's - don't need subscriptions to either. Get a feel for the last 15 years - any older and you really need to know provenance. Play with older vintages later! ( Please tell me when you jag some '61 Latour or Lafite in good nick.)

2) Become familiar with the 'Growths' malarkey, and regions within Bordeaux.

Then get a feel for values of lesser growths in good to great years and better growths in average/middling years.
Then dip your feet in the water and check out what's available on Langtons and MW auction sites. I've found them to have the best range and starting prices.
Google potential wines - there's a host of sites that will give you recent tasting notes.
There's some good value from the right bank (merlot and blends) - and read up on vintage reports/tasting notes for various makers years after, especially if they've changed hands recently and the market is yet to catch up.

3) Develop your quarterly Bordeaux tasting group and amortise the costs.

I hope this helps.
I feel the same about NW Italian reds!

phillisc wrote: ↑Tue Jul 02, 2024 12:49 pm Would certainly like to get into Bordeaux...but don't really know where to begin.
Cheers Craig

as ever, a tasting event would be the best answer, especially one that covers left bank (typically more cab sauv & more structure) and right bank (typically more merlot, and sadly in the case of many St. Emilion, more alc%)

Con J wrote: ↑Tue Jul 02, 2024 9:31 pm

phillisc wrote: ↑Tue Jul 02, 2024 12:49 pm Would certainly like to get into Bordeaux...but don't really know where to begin.
Cheers Craig

Twenty years ago

Cheers Con.

^^

It’s interesting with all of the ‘growths’ of Bordeaux, but also a little bit annoying how they don’t list the grapes and more so just have to know the region and what it’s known for. It seems like pauillac is the biggest and boldest style with most of the first growths within the region.

I’ve got my eyes on Pichon longueville, pontet canet, cos d’estournel for some day.

I’m not sure about the best method to purchase Bordeaux, or where to access en primeur/futures offers in Australia.

Then I also think that going indirectly via retailers or importers and distributors with too many steps between producer and purchaser will wash too many hands anling the way and incur too many additional tariffs and inflate the price paid.

Same with Italian wines which I’d like to explore too.

That’s why I’m gravitating towards purchasing directly from quality Australian producers that seem to represent a lot better value

phillisc wrote: ↑Tue Jul 02, 2024 12:49 pm Would certainly like to get into Bordeaux...but don't really know where to begin.
Cheers Craig

Given what you like in Oz, I think Pontet Canet would be in your wheelhouse. Some vintages are absolutely superb

Thanks Mike, seems the new release 2023 is well regarded, at $199 a bottle
Drinking window of 30 years...might just be still alive.

I might entertain the idea of a couple...would have to open one now for an insight into old world.
Cheers Craig

I forgot to add that a subscription to 'Decanter' would be very beneficial, as they have many articles on Bordeaux regions, and Jane Anson seem to know her stuff with her many tasting notes on various vintages.

Also, there is a wealth of stuff on the web. When I started with Bordeaux, I relied on Decanter, Spectator and Wine Advocate and cross referenced the notes and ratings.

For up to 12 - 15 y.o. Bordeaux I would rely on either Langtons and/or MW as auctions can provide some bargains if you know your vintages.

There are several forums with extensive Bordeaux content, including VFM recommendations and such. My approach when I first started trying Bordeaux was to start with the left bank, and to try bottles from each sub-region to try to get a feel for how each represent. You'll find quality and some value buys in all of them, however your preferences may guide you deeper in some rather than others.

Bought 1x 22 and 16 wynns black label Cabernet and 1x Shiraz. Thought I might try them out and see before I stock up on more.

6 x 2020 Ch de Pitray Les Praires

SipAndANibble wrote: ↑Thu Jul 04, 2024 2:33 am I’m not sure about the best method to purchase Bordeaux, or where to access en primeur/futures offers in Australia.

Then I also think that going indirectly via retailers or importers and distributors with too many steps between producer and purchaser will wash too many hands anling the way and incur too many additional tariffs and inflate the price paid.

Same with Italian wines which I’d like to explore too.

That’s why I’m gravitating towards purchasing directly from quality Australian producers that seem to represent a lot better value

Better value in Australia? Whilst value is always a palate preference thing, sheer logistics say that there are fewer opportunities for value to leak out when buying direct from a producer (or via a single link retail 'chain') vs. the task of getting European wines.

That said, if you get a taste for Bdx, Burg, Barolo/Barbaresco, Rioja, or indeed any of the lesser known regions of Europe, then there's a high chance that Aussie attempts at similar won't scratch the same itch.

What I'd suggest, is to keep buying what you know and enjoy, leveraging your acquired expertise in local wines. In addition, make a conscious effort to dabble, be that in jumping at a chance to attend a tasting/offline, or grabbing a bottle here & there when the chance arises. In this, I found it easier (or more reassuring) to be somewhat targeted in my exploration, e.g. if I tasted a Portuguese wine I liked, I might do a bit of reading and radiate out from there e.g. different producers with same/similar grapes, similar region. In this way it felt like I was getting a broad feel for the wines.

From a recent post, I saw some super retailers in Aus, specialising in Italian wines. Browsing their lists, it was clear there was a genuine passion and hence it felt well chosen. That is one advantage of those 'extra hands', if those hands actually add some value via their insight and experience. In both of them I'd feel confident that an email or phone call to discuss creating a tasting case, would result in a suitably tailored selection. That might not be a bad way to approach it. Only once you've focused in on what you love, is it worth trying to look at how to save $s on future purchases.

Yep great guidance Ian ! And that’s what I was getting at that being direct from producer I.e. agricola, sorrenberg, Wendouree, standish, Sami odi locally is going to be a lot more efficient of a purchasing model as opposed to overseas wines that have a lot more peoples margins built in.

But you’re right, for now I’m working my way through my own backyard (I.e. wynns Coonawarra) and getting across that first, and will keep an eye on international varieties.

I haven’t done a whole lot of tasting but will keep my eye on them when the opportunity presents itself.

I guess the other daunting thing with Bordeaux for instance is they are intended to be cellared, so might be a bit of a steep learning curve. I saw dans had some aged chateau Palmer and cos d’estournel around 2011ish for some pretty steep prices. Maybe some day will take the plunge and see what the fuss is about. And then maybe target good vintages en primeur for a bit of a discount.

And yes I’m generally weary of independent wine shops due to margins, but might be worthwhile if they can help illuminate the way with a mixed case. Good tip there too !

It’s deff a long haul hobby !

FWIW I love Wynns Black label, regularly wondering if TWE can find a way to f*ck it up, but seemingly they lack their usual flair for destruction.

Yes, it is a long haul hobby, and whilst we'll make mistakes, we'll also stumble across some wines that light up our lives. As long as we listen to our own palates along the way, the odds will be in our favour, and the journey a lot of fun.

One of the French posters on online forums (Alex R) has for many years berated the English and American fixation with the classed growths. Whilst it's difficult to argue against the top wines of Bdx being within their number, he argued the value was often poor, whereas exploring outside of that could give superb value. Not something I've personally pursued with much vigour, but some small highlights picked out of my Cellartracker notes: Deyrem-Valentin (from Margaux region) has been the most common one I've bought; 2011 Château l'Ancestral was charming at 7 years old; 1999 Château La Rose Figeac was lovely at 15 years old; 2005 Château Tour St Bonnet was light, bright and balanced at 7 years old; 1990 Château Martineau was in nice shape for a minor wine from a reputed vintage. Experiences overall mixed, but IMO there is value in exploring outside the classed growths.

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Ian S wrote: ↑Sun Jul 07, 2024 5:38 am FWIW I love Wynns Black label, regularly wondering if TWE can find a way to f*ck it up, but seemingly they lack their usual flair for destruction.

Yes, it is a long haul hobby, and whilst we'll make mistakes, we'll also stumble across some wines that light up our lives. As long as we listen to our own palates along the way, the odds will be in our favour, and the journey a lot of fun.

One of the French posters on online forums (Alex R) has for many years berated the English and American fixation with the classed growths. Whilst it's difficult to argue against the top wines of Bdx being within their number, he argued the value was often poor, whereas exploring outside of that could give superb value. Not something I've personally pursued with much vigour, but some small highlights picked out of my Cellartracker notes: Deyrem-Valentin (from Margaux region) has been the most common one I've bought; 2011 Château l'Ancestral was charming at 7 years old; 1999 Château La Rose Figeac was lovely at 15 years old; 2005 Château Tour St Bonnet was light, bright and balanced at 7 years old; 1990 Château Martineau was in nice shape for a minor wine from a reputed vintage. Experiences overall mixed, but IMO there is value in exploring outside the classed growths.

Yeah I think that is key - being guided by one’s palate. I guess I just need to get out and do more tastings and then follow along the trails of varietal/region/producers

Yes and I’ve seen some commentary about reclassification where some of the growth categories would likely fluctuate if re-done.

Appreciate your cellar tracker notes ! I think I’d like to sink my teeth into some pauillac wines when I get a chance.

Cheers

3 2019 Yalumba Signature...good price from a local bottle shop.
3 2021 Rudderless Shiraz, Doug Govan's vineyard set up adjacent to the Victory Hotel at Sellick's in SA.
Will have a look at one soon.
Cheers Craig

12 more 2015 Reschke Bos Cabernet

A half-dozen of 2015 Rivera Castel del Monte reserva Il Falcone (a wine I've enjoyed a few times before, from Northern Puglia). The wine is the big name in the DOC (albeit not the most expensive), and a fine example of top examples in lesser known appellations, often still being quite modestly priced.

Alongside the order, a cheaper nero di troia 'il violente', an Aglianico 'Cappellaccio' and fiano 'Scariazzo' from the same producer. Closing it out, something different: Château Oumsiyat Obeidy (Obeidy a different spelling of one of the white grapes of Chateau Musar).

6 2021 Katnook Prodigy
6 2022 Seppelts Chalambar

Cheers Craig

12 x 2019 Eight at the Gate Wrattonbully Cabernet Shiraz

12 x 2021 Majella Cabernet

A mixed case of Majella
6 2021 Cabernet
3 2021 Composer
3 2016 GPL

Cheers Craig

x6 2024 Seppelt Riesling Drumborg Vineyard
x6 2022 Seppelt Shiraz St Peters
x12 2002 Saltram Cabernet Sauvignon Mamre Brook
x3 2023 Agricola Vintners Ebenezer
x3 2023 Agricola Vintners Flaxman
x2 2021 Lindeman's Cabernet Sauvignon Trio St. George
x6 2023 Mount Pleasant Wines Mount Henry Shiraz Pinot Noir
x3 2023 Mount Pleasant Wines Shiraz 1946 Vines Rosehill

Nice haul there AJ
Received the Seppelts email yesterday, will look at the 24 Drumborg Riesling and 22 St Peters. I was fortunate to pick up a few bottles of 2022 Mount Ida in a couple of TWE mystery packs.

Cheers Craig

phillisc wrote: ↑Thu Jul 25, 2024 3:32 pm Nice haul there AJ
Received the Seppelts email yesterday, will look at the 24 Drumborg Riesling and 22 St Peters. I was fortunate to pick up a few bottles of 2022 Mount Ida in a couple of TWE mystery packs.

Cheers Craig

Thanks Craig ... I missed the 2021 St Pete's so got in early on the 2022 as it received another fantastic review on WineFront.