The Auswine Forum

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Only the St Hallett Blackwell and Petaluma Hanlin Hill.Will we see the slow demise of once long time producers?
I do worry about the way the Australian wine industry is heading.We already have a grape glut with the SA riverland in trouble.
I know this has happened before but i think there is an ongoing problem with people cutting back on their alcohol intake and
drinking non alcohol wines .Hopefully this is just a fad and will eventually disappear like all the fads previously.

Virgin staff aren’t happy working at Bain. Different industry I know but disaffected staff in the wine game can’t be good? Expecting plenty of discounts as they dump and rebrand.

New owners of Accolade now looking at a merger with Australian Vintage, which includes Nepenthe. Weird stuff happening in the industry - too many vines in the ground, resulting from accelerated depreciation of vineyards introduced in 1993. Within 10 years, vineyard area in Australia trebled! Way too big 'an egg in the snakes neck'.

It's rarely good news in that game of 'pass the parcel'. If there are assets to be stripped, or corners to be cut, they will be. What's in the bottle will be less and less cared about.

The industry will survive, even if I expect most of these brands to be in their death spiral.

Sean wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2024 3:13 pm

Currently they still own Hardy’s, Grant Burge, Banrock Station, St Hallett, Petaluma, Yarra Burn, Reynella, Leasingham, Rolf Binder, Houghton, Brookland Valley, Croser, Katnook Estate, Goundrey and Moondah Brook.

Anyone still drinking the wines?

I still have a couple of bottles each of Houghton's HWB (or whatever it's called now) and Jack Mann (which still was pretty good last time tasted). The rest? None, and nothing drunk in the last decade.

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Been in the cellarone wine club for 10 years now, have never paid anywhere near RRP for Leasingham/Petaluma/Katnook/St Hallett, or indeed anywhere near CD price.

Picked up 2023 Petaluma Riesling yesterday...$72 for a sixer, offered crazy crazy price on 2016 Coonawarra, but already have a dozen, otherwise would get more.
I know that it costs money to make wine, but am convinced that many many out there are having a lend.
They know who they are, and funnily enough so do we...so who is going to blink first!!
Cheers Craig

Is that the Hanlin Hill Craig? Incredible price…

I’ve had the 02,09 and 12 HH in recent weeks, and while a little riper than other makers, they’re nice wines.

Sean wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2024 3:13 pm Currently they still own Hardy’s, Grant Burge, Banrock Station, St Hallett, Petaluma, Yarra Burn, Reynella, Leasingham, Rolf Binder, Houghton, Brookland Valley, Croser, Katnook Estate, Goundrey and Moondah Brook.

Anyone still drinking the wines?

Sad I still drink them but haven’t bought them for 20 years. “Zombie” labels- some sort of weird aberration from what they once were.

Houghton is an interesting member of this group.

Houghton sold its prime (and very historic) property in the Swan Valley a few years ago, and now makes the wines in Nannup. Having said that, many of the top wines were from Southern WA fruit anyway, so Nannup as a processing facility makes sense.

I may be mistaken, but the top wines in the Houghton stable are still made in WA and their manufacture remains somewhat independent of the bean counters. I have fond memories of a 2001 Jack Mann shared with wine industry friends in Margaret River a few year ago.

I also had a soft spot for Houghton White Burgundy (largely Chenin Blanc) which aged like a Hunter Semillon, but I cannot speak for more recent versions of its replacement, the Houghton Classic.

Maybe its a case of being informed and selective about where to spend your cash.

Cheers
Allan

Mike Hawkins wrote: ↑Fri Mar 08, 2024 9:40 pm Is that the Hanlin Hill Craig? Incredible price…

I’ve had the 02,09 and 12 HH in recent weeks, and while a little riper than other makers, they’re nice wines.

Yes Mike, 2023 HH. Will be the last vintage I buy.
Cheers Craig

Still enjoy Grant Burge (Filsell, Meshach), St Hallett (Blackwell, Old Block) & Petaluma (various) but seek them out on auctions & as specials, haven't paid normal retail or CD prices for years.

Waiters Friend wrote: ↑Sat Mar 09, 2024 12:05 am
I may be mistaken, but the top wines in the Houghton stable are still made in WA and their manufacture remains somewhat independent of the bean counters. I have fond memories of a 2001 Jack Mann shared with wine industry friends in Margaret River a few year ago.

I’ve been trying to backfill a bit of Houghtons over the past years. Got some Gladstones and JM at auction- the latter cooked!

I follow the winefront team when shopping. There was a famously dud vintage to avoid.

Still interested. Aussie cab is so cheap compared to Bordeaux and ages magnificently- “bush” notes can be detracting for many I find.

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Thanks Sean,

I think I’m getting old and living in the past on pricing like Craig.

Inflation and marketing has seen prices soar beyond what I’d expect for Aussie wine considering the lake of it!

I can still buy Barolo overseas for $60 AuD -up from $50 pre-COVID. Something is amiss here!

Interesting reading. Thanks for sharing your thoughts Sean.

Of the wines being discussed, I still buy some Katnook, Petaluma and Houghtons.

I managed to get some 2019 Jack Mann last year for around $85 a bottle, and 2019 Katnook Odyssey for a smidge under $70. Hard buys at the RRP, but I’m not sure too many pay that.

Cheers Ed

Thanks Jamie, and agree Ed, RRPs are largely fictional. Yes, entering the twilight of my last year or two of wine purchases. Yes, days gone by where wines were 75% less than they are now. Still apart from about a dozen or so mail order lists where price is non negotiable, I haven't paid RRP on anything else for probably a decade now.

Accolade/Carlyle/Constellation/ Bain whatever they are now is going to be reshaped/squeezed/morphed into something else.
Jack Mann IIRC was on offer for $70, CW Ferguson sub $40 and Katnooks super premiums around $50-55. I'm still thinking about the Petaluma offer and just this morning another offer on Eileen Hardy Shiraz for $50...but from the shit 2017 vintage.

Will watch with interest if there's another fire sale, but it's the industry as a whole that in trouble. Sad to see this week that there's Riverland and Riverina growers ploughing vines into the ground... simply not worth picking the grapes they say. Pennies trying to woo the art set, with a new Grange label... whatever next??!!

I'm waiting for the 2021/22 vintage of Katnook, Petaluma and maybe St Hallet.
See how we all go.
Cheers Craig

I’d buy those Aussies at that price Craig. Subject to vintage due diligence and perhaps comment from regular drinkers of the labels.

I’m going around the world in the next 80 hours. I’ll pop into wine shops on three continents and it makes it hard not to be very discerning with Aussie buying. Although they try it on as well.

phillisc wrote: ↑Fri Mar 08, 2024 10:35 am Been in the cellarone wine club for 10 years now, have never paid anywhere near RRP for Leasingham/Petaluma/Katnook/St Hallett, or indeed anywhere near CD price.

Picked up 2023 Petaluma Riesling yesterday...$72 for a sixer, offered crazy crazy price on 2016 Coonawarra, but already have a dozen, otherwise would get more.
I know that it costs money to make wine, but am convinced that many many out there are having a lend.
They know who they are, and funnily enough so do we...so who is going to blink first!!
Cheers Craig

I've had to re-register (used to post as Mark S long ago but can't log in whatever I've tried) I still enjoy Petaluma especially, and Grant Burge and St Hallett. Also in the cellarone wine club, but their website doesn't show anything like those prices (at least for me in Melb)

Craig, if it's not confidential, can you say how/where you got these deals/offers? I'd be happy to find Petaluma H.H. Riesling for $20 let alone the price you mention. Also, you say it's the last vintage you'll buy - why?

Mark SC wrote: ↑Mon Mar 11, 2024 2:04 pm

phillisc wrote: ↑Fri Mar 08, 2024 10:35 am Been in the cellarone wine club for 10 years now, have never paid anywhere near RRP for Leasingham/Petaluma/Katnook/St Hallett, or indeed anywhere near CD price.

Picked up 2023 Petaluma Riesling yesterday...$72 for a sixer, offered crazy crazy price on 2016 Coonawarra, but already have a dozen, otherwise would get more.
I know that it costs money to make wine, but am convinced that many many out there are having a lend.
They know who they are, and funnily enough so do we...so who is going to blink first!!
Cheers Craig

I've had to re-register (used to post as Mark S long ago but can't log in whatever I've tried) I still enjoy Petaluma especially, and Grant Burge and St Hallett. Also in the cellarone wine club, but their website doesn't show anything like those prices (at least for me in Melb)

Craig, if it's not confidential, can you say how/where you got these deals/offers? I'd be happy to find Petaluma H.H. Riesling for $20 let alone the price you mention. Also, you say it's the last vintage you'll buy - why?

Hi Mark, I sent you a PM.
Short answer is I am in the top tier of cellarone and have spent quite a few thousand over the journey. They often have sales/specials/vouchers, over the run of the mill club price. A couple of years back they were flogging numerous vintages of Petaluma Coonawarra, in magnum format. Their 20% site wide, Christmas sale, plus you accumulate cellar dollars on purchases etc. etc. are all worth a look.

The first Petaluma Riesling I tried was in about 1986 or so, I have loved the wine, and so stupidly, once had an opportunity to purchase a property that to this day supplies grapes that go into Hanlin Hill....long story, newly married, in debt ( ha ha there's probably a punchline there), interest rates at 17% and so forth. I have quite a few of the 90s ( someone on this forum once said, 90's Petaluma's would resemble Singer sewing machine oil)...their palate far better than mine of course
I have a really good run from 2000 onwards.
There might be 75-100 cases of all sorts of Rieslings, 02, 12, 21, 22, 23...way way too much, but such a delicious drink and such excellent VFM.
Most I have ever paid is about $65-70 for 2022 Grosset. thank Christ I'm not in to Cardonnay
I am older now, have to stop buying, its an obsession...but Pikes Merle, Leonay, Sepplets Drumborg and Crawford River might still get a look in.

Cheers Craig

I haven't bought much retail for years. There are some online guys and wineries providing crazy prices for case purchases. Some contributors buy from them. Very sad indeed but at least I'm doing my bit to drain the lake plus it's exposing me to different wines which I would otherwise not consider. Limited short term storage groaning under the pressure. Some sellers are offering aged wines at quite reasonable prices.

Sad to see grape growers being thrown under the bus. Hopefully China will stop its chest beating and absorb some of the surplus. As for Accolade and other big guys I have no time for these corporate cowboys who think they are the smartest in the room. Time and time again they buy up good family wineries and trash them. The list is endless and will probably grow. What did Bob Dylan and Jimmy Hendricks sing - Businessmen, they drink my wine, Plowmen dig my earth. Ain't that the truth.

Sean wrote: ↑Sun Mar 10, 2024 3:22 pm

JamieAdelaide wrote: ↑Sun Mar 10, 2024 12:03 am
I’ve been trying to backfill a bit of Houghtons over the past years. Got some Gladstones and JM at auction- the latter cooked!

I follow the winefront team when shopping. There was a famously dud vintage to avoid.

Still interested. Aussie cab is so cheap compared to Bordeaux and ages magnificently- “bush” notes can be detracting for many I find.

Jamie

When I was at the Brookland Valley cd last year, they had the Houghton wines.

The 2020 vintage of the Gladstone was $99 and the Jack Mann was $180. Might be a bit more now, unless they run a deal.

They also had back vintages of the Jack Mann. The staffer told me to give them a ring to get prices if I wanted any.

Tel ‪(08) 9755 6042‬

It is free delivery in Australia and 20% off orders over $150 if you are a Distinction Wine Club member.

(That is for all the Accolade wine brands.)

The CellarOne website is showing 2020 Gladstones for $50.87 and 2020 Jack Mann for $85.

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Sean wrote: ↑Thu Mar 14, 2024 8:13 am Yes you can get great staff prices if you are a Cellar One member.

My understanding is Cellar One is exclusive to Accolade staff, family and referrals.

The referral codes to join get chucked around from time to time. Got a run on the Australian Frequent Flyer forum a few years ago.

Happy to send any of the punters here a referral...if that's OK Sam? Just need to work out how to do it.
cheers Craig

Share away Craig

sjw_11 wrote: ↑Fri Mar 15, 2024 10:33 pm Share away Craig

Thanks Sam
If anyone wishes to have a referral, please PM me.

Cheers Craig

I was able to join without being a staff member (or being referred) and bought 3 bottles of St Hallett 2018 Old Block Shiraz at a ridiculously low price!

WAwineguy wrote: ↑Wed Mar 20, 2024 5:53 pm I was able to join without being a staff member (or being referred) and bought 3 bottles of St Hallett 2018 Old Block Shiraz at a ridiculously low price!

Yes and referral would get them $7 a bottle less than what you paid
Cheers Craig