The Auswine Forum

QANTAS BUSINESS CLASS - GROUND & AIR - Sydney, Antique aircraft, Bangkok (3/10/2023-6/10/2023)

Qantas Business Lounge Sydney International
3-Oct-23 7.30am breakfast at the increasingly busy Business Lounge at Sydney International. Still, it’s an airport – normal drinking rules don’t apply. And it’s after 9am by the time I start on the wines. Defendably parochial all-Australian wines (champagne excepted) both in the lounges and on the planes. Must be about the only thing they haven’t outsourced overseas. One fizz, rosé (avoided), two whites, three reds are on offer in a self-serve operation. No dessert or fortifieds that I can see. No detailed wine list in Business on the planes either – you pick from what’s on the trolley. Lucky dip surprise!

• NV Seppelt Great Entertainer - Australia, Victoria, Western Victoria, Great Western (3/10/2023)
  {11%} Gentle detergent aromas. Citrus tang. Mostly coarse bubbles; no traditional method here I’ll wager. Vague chardonnay flavours, citrus. Little yeast evident. Light weight, medium acid, shortish finish. Seppelt chasing the prosecco market with this maybe? (Qantas Business Lounge Sydney International)
• 2022 Lambrook Wines Pinot Gris Stellar - Australia, South Australia, Mount Lofty Ranges, Adelaide Hills (3/10/2023)
  {screwcap, 12%} Soft apricot and pear. Low acid palate, light-bodied, dry but with a gris-furry texture and a hint of sugar I suspect. Short finish. Not exciting, even by the standards of the grape. (Qantas Business Lounge Sydney International)
• 2022 Wolf Blass Chardonnay Private Release - Australia, South Australia (3/10/2023)
  {screwcap, 13%} Plenty of spicy oak, butter, figs. Crowd-pleasing style. A bit greasy and simple on the palate, with little acidity; its medium weight is enlivened with malo characters, soft oak and coconut. Finishes too short to be satisfying. (Qantas Business Lounge Sydney International)
• 2021 Levantine Hill Estate Pinot Noir The Coldstream Guard - Australia, Victoria, Port Phillip, Yarra Valley (3/10/2023)
  {screwcap, 12.5%} Strawberry jam. Little oak evident. On the palate a bit more fruit in the form of mulberry. Everything has a slightly acetic hint, as though the pH is very high somehow, or a bit of volatility getting out of control. Soft structure, light weight, low powdery tannins. Is there a little sugar left here? Not sure. Finish is short/medium at best. (Qantas Business Lounge Sydney International)
• 2022 Grant Burge Shiraz Benchmark - Australia, South Australia (3/10/2023)
  {screwcap, 14%} Lots of highly extracted but still dilute fruit. White pepper, US oak. Smells cheap, like cask wine. Spiced palate, almost like mulled wine. No structure that I can find; little tannin, powdered acid. Medium weight somehow, but not with pleasant flavours, and the finish is quite short too. A low benchmark, then. (Qantas Business Lounge Sydney International)
• 2022 Lambrook Wines Cabernet Sauvignon - Australia, South Australia, Mount Lofty Ranges, Adelaide Hills (3/10/2023)
  {screwcap, 14%} Quite varietal nose, with currants and blackberry. Palate was a little softer given the nose. There’s a distinct sweetness here almost to the point of being off-dry. Initial burst of easy black fruit, with faint low chalky tannins, but the sweetness trumps the low acidity, giving it a light/medium feel only and a short/medium finish. Hard to drink more than a glass.

QF23 SYD > BKK
On an Alan Joyce Special - a 30-year old A330 that should be in a museum somewhere. Nine hours in the air after departing 45 minutes late.

• NV Jacquart Champagne Brut Mosaïque - France, Champagne (3/10/2023)
  Mainstream champers, with some autolysis character; brioche, yeast. More melon/citrus flavours on the palate; dry, crunchy, fresh texture. Small/medium, delicate bubbles. Just lacks a bit of complexity on the finish but is otherwise OK. Also served on returning QF24 three days later and quite consistent. (QF23 SYD > BKK Business Class)
• 2022 Mesh Riesling - Australia, South Australia, Barossa, Eden Valley (3/10/2023)
  {screwcap, 12.5%} Fairly closed. Intense but narrow aromas of lime, slate, mineral, and even a bit of smoke (or perhaps just redeuction). On the palate some lime, citrus, talc, tending toward grapefruit. Dry but not grating. Medium weight, medium acid. Projects a sort of austere power rather than any charm at this age. Medium length finish. Maybe not a great choice on board a plane. (QF23 SYD > BKK Business Class)
• 2021 The Lane Vineyard Chardonnay - Australia, South Australia, Mount Lofty Ranges, Adelaide Hills (3/10/2023)
  {screwcap} Lots of nuts. Oak! Butter and vanilla slice too, but a tiny spine of minerality emerges too. Plenty of flavour on the palate, with lots of winemaking going on too. Rich medium weight wine, plenty of malo characters and ripe semi-tropical fruit without being over-oaked. Non-cellaring style with a medium length finish. (QF23 SYD > BKK Business Class)
• 2021 De Bortoli Pinot Noir The Estate Vineyard Dixons Creek - Australia, Victoria, Port Phillip, Yarra Valley (3/10/2023)
  {screwcap, 12.5%} Pointed yet developing cherry and pastrami nose. Spicy, light/medium weight palate, with cherry fruit, a little oak, and a dusty sort of palate without being very tannic. Sits of the tip on f the tongue a bit and finishes short/medium length. Sound but uninteresting pinot. (QF23 SYD > BKK Business Class)
• 2021 Chapel Hill Shiraz Vinedresser - Australia, South Australia, Fleurieu, McLaren Vale (3/10/2023)
  {screwcap} Blueberries, chocolate, liquorice. Plummy richness. It’s fruit, not oak on the nose, but some oak does emerge on the medium-weight palate to meet plenty of sweet blackberry flavours. But the tannins are low impact, finely gritty ones, and there’s not a lot of acidity. The short/medium length finish seems mostly carried by alcoholic warmth. These are $25 reds, so I guess you can’t expect too much. (QF23 SYD > BKK Business Class)
• 2017 De Bortoli Noble One Botrytis Sémillon - Australia, New South Wales, Big Rivers, Riverina (3/10/2023)
  {375ml, screwcap} Vanilla bean with botrytis/apricot aromas. Lavishly syrupy palate, medium-sweet, with medium acidity and medium/full weight. Apricot and caramel flavours. Right in the slot for the label. These days a drink-now style, but rich and reliable and with a decently long finish. Yum. (QF23 SYD > BKK Business Class)

Emirates Business Lounge Bangkok International
6-Oct-23 Turns out there are a choice of three lounges for Qantas in Bangkok: Mirage, Cathay, or Emirates. Chose the last, of course. Way nicer – if smaller – than the Qantas Sydney lounge. Better range of wine too.

• NV Drappier Champagne Carte d'Or Brut - France, Champagne (6/10/2023)
  {cork, 12%} Grapefruit aromas; not a lot of yeast. Maybe apple too. Quite pointed, almost sour, on the palate. Perhaps reflecting the high pinot component of 80%? There’s apple on the palate too. Still remains light/medium-bodied, with medium-sized, quite aggressive bubbles. Sits a bit on the front palate, and finishes short/medium in length. Perhaps a bit workmanlike, but OK. (Emirates Business Lounge Bangkok International)
• NV Moët & Chandon Champagne Brut Impérial - France, Champagne (6/10/2023)
  {cork, 12%} Goodness. A prosaic choice for a business lounge. Light, grassy nose, with more earthy flavours on the palate. Thick yellow fruit – squash, paw-paw – but always mild and low-key. Quite coarse texture, with large, aggressive bubbles, and mostly present on the front-palate. This must see the absolute legal minimum time on lees I reckon. If it was your first ever Champagne you’d wonder what the fuss was about. (Emirates Business Lounge Bangkok International)
• 2016 Château Villa Bel-Air Blanc - France, Bordeaux, Graves (6/10/2023)
  {cork, 12%} SB & Sem 65/35. First bottle two-thirds full and distinctly oxidized. Luckily a second was opened before I left the lounge. Still fairly broad and earthy, with yellow fruit, rockmelon. Feels like it’s had a bit of skin contact too, but the low acidity robs it of freshness a bit and contributes to the quite short finish. Overall a bit disappointing. (Emirates Business Lounge Bangkok International)
• 2020 Chartron et Trébuchet Bourgogne Blanc - France, Burgundy, Bourgogne Blanc (6/10/2023)
  {cork, 12.5%} Soft and buttery nose. Yellow melons, heaps of butter with subtle oak reinforcement. Some smooth malo character. Not sweet, at least. Medium weight, with medium acidity. A bit anonymous, and with a short finish, but otherwise quite serviceable. (Emirates Business Lounge Bangkok International)
• 2019 Bodega Catena Zapata Malbec Catena High Mountain Vines - Argentina, Mendoza (6/10/2023)
  {screwcap, 12%} Raw and vibrant. Rustic and semi-sweet nose of ribena-cordial, but little oak. The palate is inkily alcoholic with blackberry fruit – milder than the nose threatened. Almost no detectable tannin and the acidity is quite low too. It’s medium weight, very much on the front-palate and finishes short/medium in length. A hearty style of wine for vigorous quaffing. (Emirates Business Lounge Bangkok International)
• 2018 Michel Lynch - France, Bordeaux (6/10/2023)
  {cork, 12%} Very Bordeaux, albeit in a modest way. Some anonymous black fruit, subtle oak. A gentle dustiness too. Low-key palate with low/medium dusty tannins. Quite sour and drying palate with generic black fruits. Finish dies away rather too quickly. Soundly-made but a bit dull. (Emirates Business Lounge Bangkok International)
• NV Taylor (Fladgate) Porto Fine Ruby - Portugal, Douro, Porto (6/10/2023)
  Spirity brandy and cherries with no oak influence. Medium weight, off-dry, with more black fruit than red on the palate. Medium length finish carried by alcohol and the little bit of sweetness. Meh.

QF24 BKK > SYD
Another A330, possibly made this century. Very professional work with the duct tape holding my storage/tray table unit together. Overnight to Sydney. One hour late departing.

• 2023 Stella Bella Sauvignon Blanc - Australia, Western Australia, South West Australia, Margaret River (6/10/2023)
  {screwcap, 12.8%} Proper gooseberry and asparagus. Bit of a throwback to Marlborough before it went all tropical. Bright palate, not too pungent, with gentle acidity and much less intensity of fruit flavour than the nose promised, and with a bit more grassiness as opposed to the green fruits. Light weight, medium acid, medium length dry finish. (QF24 BKK > SYD Business Class)
• 2022 Flametree Chardonnay - Australia, Western Australia, South West Australia, Margaret River (6/10/2023)
  {screwcap} Taut, nutty sort of nose, quite restrained. Equally tart palate, offering just enough grapefruit flavours to avoid total austerity. Minimal malo, little oak evident, light/medium weight, soft acidity. An early-drinking style I think, without being too extreme. (QF24 BKK > SYD Business Class)
• 2022 Lambrook Wines Pinot Noir Adelaide Hills - Australia, South Australia, Mount Lofty Ranges, Adelaide Hills (6/10/2023)
  {screwcap} Lightweight modest pinot with spiced cherry, low chalky tannins, little oak, medium acidity. Shortish finish. Not much concentration or interest but not otherwise offensive! (QF24 BKK > SYD Business Class)
• 2020 Ferngrove Shiraz Dragon - Australia, Western Australia, South West Australia, Frankland River (6/10/2023)
  {screwcap} Inky-smelling blackberry with spice. Hint of sweetness on palate, still blackberry with a lick of liquorice richness. Mild sort of structure, with subtle oak, medium acid, low dusty tannins, good mid-palate presence and a medium length finish. Should have drunk this all flight instead of leaving it til last. (QF24 BKK > SYD Business Class)

Qantas Business class food and wine has definitely gone downhill since Covid, though I'm not saying anything most people don't already know. All Qantas lounges (yes, including that one) have also dumbed down their wine offerings.

I don’t shit for a week eating QF Business Class food.

I travelled QF international business regularly between 2005 to 2009. Back then it was not uncommon to find a RWT, St Henri or Clonakilla SV in business class. It started going downhill noticeable around 2010? to now when business class means a $25 red.

Is there big price competition around business class at the moment, as they're certainly not trying to compete on quality!?!!

Recently flew Qantas business Sydney to Hong Kong and steward spilt my bubbles all over me before we had left the ground. Cold food was shoved in my face and zero service thereafter. Pressed service button once with zero results. Our premium economy flight before Covid was better. Worthy of a Monty Python movie. The male Kiwi steward was more suited to an All Black scrum. Having said that another business class leg on British Airways (Delhi to London) was a farce. The seating configuration is terrible. Those in the very middle seat flew backwards and occupants had to step over aisle passengers' legs to reach their seats. Lay down position was via a sort of fold down flap in front of you. Flying back Helsinki to Tokyo via Finnair so hopefully this will be better. Finnair business seats are apparently state of the art. Tokyo to Sydney will be via Qantas business so have very low expectations. Qantas claim every excuse under the sun but charge double usual prices. Tell someone who cares. Someone put it well. Qantas run a great business but 3rd rate airline.

Chuck wrote: ↑Fri Oct 27, 2023 12:31 am Qantas run a great business but 3rd rate airline.

If your frontline staff are disengaged there’s a fault in your business model. The treatment of airline staff has been appalling in many cases since COVID. For instance, if you went to Hong Kong on Cathay I’d expect the same service. My wife did recently and although she was looked after being known, the crew were in protest reflecting in their lack of service.

Having been in the airline industry all my life I find Business Class has been relegated to a flat bed and status symbol. The wine is so bad with many airlines Business Class provides an AFD opportunity.

I flew between the US and Oz in business twice this year. Qantas wines were dreadful and AA’s were no better. Also took one return flight to Sydney in first on AA and the wines were akin to those in their business class. The Asian and Middle East airlines set the benchmark these days.

Ian S wrote: ↑Thu Oct 26, 2023 11:18 pm Is there big price competition around business class at the moment, as they're certainly not trying to compete on quality!?!!

As I recall the business flight to BKK was booked about 4 months ahead and cost around $7k. Amazing. I used to fly Etihad SYD>Frankfurt annually for a few years, and the 2019 fare, booked about 4 months ahead, was about $9k back in 2019. That year (or was it 2018?) I also got an upgrade to 1st for the SYD>Abu Dhabi leg, which was lovely. Although the wines still weren't to the standard of Singapore 1st back then, to judge by the photo a friend sent me of an on-board list. Etihad were pouring Dead Arm back then, whereas SG had Pichon Lalande!

Rocky wrote: ↑Thu Oct 26, 2023 8:33 pm I travelled QF international business regularly between 2005 to 2009. Back then it was not uncommon to find a RWT, St Henri or Clonakilla SV in business class. It started going downhill noticeable around 2010? to now when business class means a $25 red.

I expect by 2010 the Irish gnome had run his beady eyes over the costings; an easy win there as part of his corporate-raider philosophy. Funny to have an asset-stripper as CEO, eh?
I had a very brief sojourn into the Qantas 1st Lounge in Sydney back in 2014. They were pouring 2010 Rockford Basket Press back then. Can't imagine that's still happening. Reserved for the Chairmans' Cabal these days, I'd expect.

The Chairman’s Lounge should be illegal! You wonder why QF isn’t delivering well that’s about reason number one. Vanilla corruption.

Business Class was always an area I witnessed the temptation of low hanging fruit for management zealots to achieve their short term gains for their bonus. I never ate Business Class food at my previous premium long airline for five years-it became appalling. Preferred fasting! I’d pick around First Class food on occasions mainly for abalone and lobster and what the punters thought to be caviar. I did a contract for a few months and got to experience the delights of the “national” carrier and wow what a fraud is Aussie exceptionalism.

Cleaning is also another interesting observation and has been cut to the bone. I would sit in First Class on a turnaround flight and the cabin crew would kindly serve a meal. With a round of cuts pre-COVID in the levels of cleaning it was grotesque to witness a toilet being cleaned and the same hand towel used on the First Class tables. Ewwwww… back to the cockpit for a meal.

Plenty of airline wine stories yet it’s best summed up where I’d joke with the crew the wine was so bad it deterred the crew stealing the wine off the aircraft for room parties. One ***** cabin crew sold champagne on eBay that she’d stole before being caught.

GraemeG wrote: ↑Fri Oct 27, 2023 11:07 pm As I recall the business flight to BKK was booked about 4 months ahead and cost around $7k. Amazing. I used to fly Etihad SYD>Frankfurt annually for a few years, and the 2019 fare, booked about 4 months ahead, was about $9k back in 2019.
Etihad were pouring Dead Arm back then, whereas SG had Pichon Lalande!

We've been back to Thailand maybe 12 times since 2008, used to live/work there in the early 90's, love the food, culture, etc. Normally fly QF out of SYD (QF23/24) and normally business, either points or pay. Last fare just pre Covid in Jan 2020 was about $3.5k return (we were in Chiang Mai for Chinese New Year as hordes of Chinese were flying in from Wuhan! ). Fare last Dec was $6.5k return, ie double. Fortunately Thai was still reasonable at $7.3k return for both of us, so we gave the flying kangaroo the flick. We prefer Asian airlines anyway, and the service and food was pretty good. At least they had a Bordeaux and a Burgundy in business. Lounges in MEL and BKK weren't great for wine.

And I thought it was just Qantas. Friend said I was being too tough on airlines as they ramp up post COVID. I'd be more generous if they had lower fares to compensate for poor service and food and wine but at a rough guess they were at least double the pre COCID price. To the barricades with pitchforks? Maybe we should do the French thing and head to the streets and march to the guillotine. First on the list would be Joyce. The appalling service we got when booking our business class round the world points tickets last year was worthy of another Fawlty Towers skit. We spend around 70 hours on the phone after flights kept disappearing. Finally we were told to ask for "the bookings to be ticketed". How novel!!! This seemed to fix it but some flights were relegated to economy. Having plenty of time I wrote a 5 page letter to Joyce. First response was pathetic. Apologies only. 2 letters later to Joyce they waved the white flag and gave us what we wanted (well almost). I think they were concerned after my comment about "crossing the Rubicon" and being prepared to go to social media etc. The squeaky wheel?

No surprise about the respect for Asian/Middle East carriers. It's been ~ a decade since we've travelled to Aus or NZ, but there was clear daylight between them and Qantas/BA (who were even worse than Qantas). My experiences solely in cattle class, and food was not just edible, but genuinely enjoyable on many occasions. If on a BA leg, then I'd be more likely to skip the food entirely.

Brutal labour laws, bordering upon abuse, see service standards rigidly upheld with some of these Asian & Arab carriers.

It’s virtually impossible to sack western airlines’ crew for misdemeanours. That said there is a lot arrogant privilege at times.

The crappy wine there is still no excuse for. My former Hong Kong airline saw the business class budget a bottle about 5-7 USD! I know because friends who owned wineries living in HK went through the process, as well as a number of wine judges in my tasting group, who would rate their best in the line up. Say 30 out of 300. The airline would pick the ones where they could get the best deals and put the “wine celebrities” name to their selection. I think they all pulled away and now who knows who selects them?