The Auswine Forum

G’day

Unlike most of my ‘tastings’ posts, this was a tasting that I had no hand in organising. My thanks to Leigh for organising the tasting and for the opportunity to attend.

Sixteen Margaret River Cabernets from the 2014 vintage were poured, and in glasses in front of us at the start the tasting. Many of the wines presented were the top offerings from the wineries in question. The wines were served blind, and only revealed at the very end of the tasting.

Given that the wines were all 9 years old, I’m not surprised that most of the sharp edges we see on younger Cabernets had rounded off, and it was a pleasure to look at the wines without risking the tooth enamel.

Also unlike most of the ‘tastings’ notes I post, these are entirely my own, and not a group compilation. I’ve not attempted to describe colour, due to lighting and that most 2014s from the same region probably look much the same as well So, let’s talk about the wines:

Heydon Estate W.G. Grace: As expected, blackcurrant on the nose, with milk chocolate, and a hint of paprika. The palate shows gentle primary fruits, integrated and slightly slippery tannins, and moderate supporting acid. A straightforward, easy drinking wine now.

Cape Grace Reserve: A restrained nose, with blackcurrant, raspberry and olive tapenade. The palate shows some primary and stewed blackberry fruit (indicating development), freshening acid, integrated tannins, a clean mouthfeel and a medium length. Not overly powerful or complex.

Windows Estate: Dusty nose, with Kirsch, dark cherry and cedary oak. The palate shows slightly higher acid than the preceding wines, and it’s a little prickly. There’s tangy red fruits and a touch of cough syrup, mulberry and mocha. Tannins are well integrated and the wine is medium bodied.

Cape Mentelle: Blackcurrant, dusty oak, lots of mocha and mulberry on the nose. The palate was richer and thicker texturally than the previous wines, with dark fruits, cranberry jelly, and good supporting acid. A long and reasonably full finish. My favourite so far.

Deep Woods Reserve: The Jimmy Watson winner. The initial impression on the nose is cedary oak, with redcurrant, eucalypt, cassis, and dark fruits. The palate shows more red fruits (lots) and a touch of milk chocolate, with blueberry and blackberry in support, Soft acid, integrated and slightly grippy tannins.

Glenmore Vineyard: A fuller nose than previous wines, with blackcurrant, mocha, caramel and mulberry. More caramel and chocolate on the palate, with blackberry, integrated tannins and supporting acid, and full bodied without appearing weighty. One of my favourites of the tasting.

Cullen Diana Madeline: A muted nose initially, with modest dark berries and a little mocha. A soft palate, with milk chocolate and soft dark fruits. It’s only just medium length and fell away on the finish. Disappointing for me, and for other tasters as well. I can’t see this looking good in 2034.

Leeuwin Estate Art Series: Initially a shy nose, with spicy and tart red fruits, and cedary oak. More tangy red fruits on the palate, with soft tannins and the acid is keeping it fresh. I can’t see this getting much better.

From here, the wines stepped up a notch (mostly).

Xanadu Stevens Road: A more complex nose, with dark and red fruits, a little mocha, cedar, eucalypt and capsicum. The palate is more complete than the preceding wines; firstly, lots of blackberry fruit, a little Kirsch, eucalypt and red fruits. Tannins are grippy, with good supporting acid, a touch of glycerols, and a long finish. Good wine.

Voyager Estate: Presumably the Cabernet Merlot. A full nose, with mocha and cedary oak, blackcurrant, black plums and mulberry. A soft palate but not lacking punch, it’s slightly textural with velvety tannins. Acid plays a supporting role only, and there’s a flood of blue and red fruits across the tongue, along with the sensation of lightly melted chocolate. A medium to long finish and for me, an excellent wine. I’m happy to have some of these in the cellar.

Xanadu Reserve: Blackcurrant compote, cedary dusty oak, and menthol on the nose. A soft but full palate, with mouthfilling black and blue fruits, integrated tannins and acid in a supporting role. Excellent length and different to the Stevens Road from the same maker.

Voyager Estate MJW: A shy nose compared to previous wines. Dusty oak and less intense dark fruits on the nose. The palate was a little more forthcoming, with mocha, sweet black and blue fruits, and a little lacking on the mid palate. Surprisingly, finishing very long. Perhaps will improve with time, but not my favourite today.

Vasse Felix Tom Cullity: Developed dark fruits, eucalypt and cedar on the nose. Pronounced blue and black berries on the palate, tangy redcurrant, zippy acid, grippy tannins and a long and rounded finish. I especially enjoyed the mouthfeel.

Moss Wood: A vibrant and well fruited nose (although with some delicacy). Some eucalypt and ‘wild berry’ lollies. The palate shows raspberry compote, choc/mocha, and has cleansing acid, mouth-puckering tannins, and a long finish.

Woodlands Matthew: A complex nose, from which it was hard to pick out fruits, as they are definitely taking a back seat to the cedary oak. A range of savoury notes predominate. There’s more savoury notes on the palate, including pencil shavings, with the fruit lurking underneath. Grippy tannins and a very long savoury finish. Well regarded by most of the group, but I hope the oak diminishes over time.

Deep Woods Grand Selection Yallingup: Lots happening on the nose, with dark and red fruits, chocolate, cedar and showing a mix of primary and developed fruits. The palate has lovely plush fruits, soft integrated tannins, and supporting acid. It’s mouth filling and dense, with some glycerols, and texture (almost thickness) from the oak. Very long finish and my wine of the day.

There was some discussion about the longevity of the wines -generally it was assumed that every wine in this tasting would be at least a 20 year proposition. I’m not convinced, however, that all of these wines will improve over that time (given they are 9 years now). A couple of the wines (for me) were peaking now, and a couple of others don’t show the balance needed to go the distance. There’s no doubt, however, about many of the wines – these are high quality (and some with commensurate prices) that show the goods now and should hit 20 years with ease.

Thanks again to Leigh for hosting this event, and to those who contributed to the lively discussion. It was a great opportunity for me to try these wines at this stage in their development.

Cheers
Allan

The first picture is oddly similar to how I'd see the room after tasting 16 wines

Yet another underwhelming Cullen DM. It's so sad, as it's a label and winery I used to have great affinity for.

Ian S wrote: ↑Sun Jul 23, 2023 9:01 am The first picture is oddly similar to how I'd see the room after tasting 16 wines

Good pick-up Ian. Here's the correct photo.

Ian S wrote: ↑Sun Jul 23, 2023 9:03 am Yet another underwhelming Cullen DM. It's so sad, as it's a label and winery I used to have great affinity for.

Confirms my view about this wine, I have been very underwhelmed in the past

Ian S wrote: ↑Sun Jul 23, 2023 9:03 am Yet another underwhelming Cullen DM. It's so sad, as it's a label and winery I used to have great affinity for.

I went long on Cullen DM from ‘10 til ‘18, all sight unseen based on reputation, a great lesson for me. Seems there is “importance” in drinking them only at a specific moon phase……. A lesson learned. Drinking a ‘14=tonight, while it’s nice it isn’t up to the hype I expected from professional reviewers.

Ian S wrote: ↑Sun Jul 23, 2023 9:03 am Yet another underwhelming Cullen DM. It's so sad, as it's a label and winery I used to have great affinity for.

My palate must be garbage, as I’ve had quite a few DM’s and never once been impressed. Yet it always seems to get incredible reviews. I’m sure it’s a great wine, too many whose palates I respect rate it. But I just don’t get it….

Cheers
Ian

ticklenow1 wrote: ↑Sun Jul 23, 2023 9:04 pm

Ian S wrote: ↑Sun Jul 23, 2023 9:03 am Yet another underwhelming Cullen DM. It's so sad, as it's a label and winery I used to have great affinity for.

My palate must be garbage, as I’ve had quite a few DM’s and never once been impressed. Yet it always seems to get incredible reviews. I’m sure it’s a great wine, too many whose palates I respect rate it. But I just don’t get it….

Cheers
Ian

I'm with you Ian!

I'm with everyone here ..... Cullen DM has never been any good, back to my first vintage purchase in 1991 (same wine, different name )
Never had a good aged Cullen. Moss Wood, OTOH, awesome with 20 years in most vintages.

Mostly, I've been underwhelmed when I've tried the DM. There was one that was to my taste.
I checked my cellar records and I have 4 Margaret River cabernets form 2014, none of which made it to this tasting (Juniper, Houghton Gladestones, Howard Park Leston and Fraser Gallop Parterre). I haven't tried any of them yet, except for the Juniper when I bought them at cellar door, so it might be time to have a look.

Juniper a pretty good / reliable version IME

Hey Guys.

Why do you all bash Cullen around every time it gets a mention.

Maybe my palate’s crap but I love old Cullen, always have.

I think this thread alone has influenced one drinkers mind about Cullen.

And No I’m not drunk.

Cheers Con.

I hope no-one takes any opinion as gospel - the only truth is in what we taste in the glass ourselves.

If you keep bashing the same poppy others might look why to bash instead looking for the good. Yeah I know everyone will say it was blind and whatever.

The only other winery that gets bashed this much is Penfolds.

We all get influenced by what others they say , whether it’s variety, region, oak, traditional, modern so on and so on. We all say our palate’s change but this the influence from the group’s everyone attends.

I used to here it all the time, “This wine is shit there’s too much oak”. Then no one likes oak anymore.

And NO I’m still not DRUNK.

Cheers Con.

Ha! I've been thinking the same thing after reading this thread. Cullen do cop more than their fair share of negative comments. It's almost inevitable that a review of DMad. will be followed by one or more posts commenting negatively. It's certainly a polarising wine.
Being well-known practicers of biodynamics could be an element at play in peoples opinion of Cullen?
Perhaps there's variability caused by something?
Maybe they need the age?
In my limited experience, the wine has been problem free.

Speaking for myself, no the bi-dy aspect makes no difference (or if it is, a negligible positive one). In my case it's also not a case of railing against critics (which I sometimes do in respect of their praise for Barossa/Mclaren vale wines). More it's a sadness that I feel quality and especially reliability has dropped, whilst prices have gone up. The net result is a previous favourite is no longer so. To answer the 'needing age?' question, in my case I'd say no, as I tend to drink them at c. 15-20 years old

I’m still not drunk.

Price has doubled over 20+ years. That’s pretty good I’d say. Yes maybe value’s not great now but what wine is when you look at it.

I’ll bet the last 5 individual negative posts about the same bottle or two of Cullen they had five years, maybe not all.

Wife is going to work soon, I might go stand up a 1992 Cullen.

Cheers Con.

It’s already standing on the table.

Does anyone in Melbourne want to have lunch?

Cheers Con.

Con J wrote: ↑Sat Jul 29, 2023 8:04 am It’s already standing on the table.

Does anyone in Melbourne want to have lunch?

Cheers Con.

If I wasn’t heading to Ballarat for the footy today, that would’ve been a very tempting offer….!

I’ve got a few DM in the cellar after having tried it when visiting MR in 2021. I found it wound incredibly tight as you’d expect but could absolutely see the potential in it. We got to try a few back vintages too (nothing close to an 92 though) and they were great. I’m a big fan of the KJ too and have bought a few vintages over the last 3-4 years too.

Cheers Ed

I’ve been planning a Cullen V Moss Wood tasting for a long time, I think the time has come.

The Melbourne Auswine group have got the Piedmont tasting early Sep then Nov.

So early Oct Cullen V Moss Wood.
All wine served blind and revealed at the end of the night.

1992, 1995, 1998, 2001 and 2005.

Ed if you’re keen or if any one else is keen.

Cheers Con.

I'd be up for that.

The Melbourne group had a 95 and an 03 Cullen at an enormous tasting at the end of 2020 and I enjoyed end them both - 4* for the 95 (which Con brought) and 3.5* for the 03 (courtesy of John). You could see the resemblance between the pair and I’d be happy with either in my cellar. As with Penfolds, you can argue about the QPR, but I have always liked the Sauv/Semillon and the Chardonnay is another well made wine.

Even though they are good wines, I can’t see them besting Moss Wood - they are top of the Auz Cabernet tree for me.

Lunch would have been great today Con, but the both of us are sick - we were due to drive to Wagga for a birthday party anyway had we not been ill.

Con J wrote: ↑Sat Jul 29, 2023 12:16 pm I’ve been planning a Cullen V Moss Wood tasting for a long time, I think the time has come.

The Melbourne Auswine group have got the Piedmont tasting early Sep then Nov.

So early Oct Cullen V Moss Wood.
All wine served blind and revealed at the end of the night.

1992, 1995, 1998, 2001 and 2005.

Ed if you’re keen or if any one else is keen.

Cheers Con.

Con

If you want to wait until the Nov tasting, we could do after the Granite Hills V Sepplt Drumburg Riesling Tasting. ( 00, 04, 08 and 13). Hopefully I can find a pair of 96 or 12 to make the verticals longer.

Sounds like a plan mate.

I’ve got a few old Seppelt reds we can finish with.

Cheers Con.

I have some Seppelt, too!
St Peters back to '98, and Drumborg Riesling back to '05. I've also just picked up a '90 Dorrien Cab, and a '94 Drumborg Cab. that I hold high hopes for.
I think I may also have an early 70's VP tucked away somewhere...

Interesting debate re WA.
A state that appears to have not had a bad year since...even 92, 95, 11, 17 all come up smelling of roses.
Apart from a few VF Heytesbury, LEAS Cab, Houghton Gladstone's and Jack Mann's and some Howard Parks from a billion years ago my experience is rather limited and completely shadowed by Coonawarra and YV. I think I may have tried Cullen and Moss Wood at Langtons tastings, but that's it.

I'm not one that has ever been troubled by oak, or even the other end of the spectrum of over extracted plum jam gloop and exploding fruit bombs, but excessive acid because sugar levels were never right and grapes were never picked at the optimal time, resulting in wines that are green, bitter and full of harsh edges. Catastrophic weather events aside, (which no one has any control over), 2017 and likely 2020 have already headed down that road.
WA is interesting as internally it has little competition, a region confined to the south west and wineries charged what they thought was reasonable or what they could get away with. I always noted that there were many many $100+ wines compared to other regions e.g. it took McLaren Vale two decades to catch up and apart from Amargh, CV was largely in the same boat.
So WA started off from a high base, but hasn't gone batshit crazy like Pennies, although Vanya might be a tad optimistic with the moon and the stars series .

Yes I'm coming in off the long run here, when Kalimna was $100, 389 $150, 707 $300, a dozen. 1990 Grange being labelled international wine of the year sounded the death knell for me, and when 707 went from $25 to $150 a bottle in the space of five vintages it was game over. Of course a few others got going too and then alienation of the domestic market took place, the ongoing international obsession and so forth. The days when us 20 somethings could buy a product that was well priced, assurance around quality fruit and something that could be enjoyed young or old, were finished.

Sure (in the other thread) there are still wines from their stable that I would buy, but I don't see the value anymore and simply purchasing just 1-2 bottles is something I have never done. Its probably a problem having 6/12, in when will they be consumed, but at least it gives me a chance to observe development.

Con, would be delighted to be a crash test dummy and look at a heap of Cullen's/Mosswood's. I'd probably be more at home with Seppelts though, 80s Drumborg's/Dorrien's unfortunately drunk years ago, but think there's Riesling's from 02 and GW Shiraz from 1990, floating around somewhere.

Just a matter of finding time getting to Melbourne
Cheers Craig

Hi Con, I probably led the Cullen bashing 15 plus years ago on this forum. I bought a 6 back of the DM (and its previous equivalent) most years and was disappointed in virtually every single one. I served many of them blind to wine drinking friends and the comments were generally unfavourable too. I just don’t think it is a good wine even at 1/3 the price.

For the record, I’m not a fan of Cape Mentelle, Mt Mary (some years) and tons of McLaren Vale Shiraz as well. But if others like them, my opinion should mean nothing!

There are certain wines I rate that others trash… simply horses for courses!

Con J wrote: ↑Sat Jul 29, 2023 12:16 pm I’ve been planning a Cullen V Moss Wood tasting for a long time, I think the time has come.

The Melbourne Auswine group have got the Piedmont tasting early Sep then Nov.

So early Oct Cullen V Moss Wood.
All wine served blind and revealed at the end of the night.

1992, 1995, 1998, 2001 and 2005.

Ed if you’re keen or if any one else is keen.

Cheers Con.

Sounds good to me - count me in when the time comes.

I’ve got 2001 and 2005 LEAS Cabernets floating around somewhere which could be interesting to throw in as a bonus round for those more recent vintages as I’d love to see how they compare blind (being a wine I really enjoy).

Cheers Ed

Hi Con,
each to his or her own opinion, and that's fine. I used to be on the list and wanted ever so much to like the wine, but it's just no good (IMO)
I have probably 3-5 dozen Cullens from the 90's still hanging around the cellar somewhere, neither myself or my kids have any inclination to pull one out and see. Purchased regularly from 1990 to 2001.
Unlike Moss Wood, I have NEVER found it to build complexity as it ages, it just gets old!!
It's a bit mischievous to say it has "only" doubled in price, the margins are kept healthy by making those "special" reds (used to be the Reserve) which are priced at second-growth Bordeaux levels, quite ridiculous. However, I assume they sell these, so good luck to them.
Over the past 30 years, I have seen it blind literally scores of times, and it has always performed poorly.

oh, and my theory as to why it's not great is that the vines of Cullen are planted on soils too high in saline.