The Auswine Forum

Probably the last winery I expected such indecent customer service from. The exchange is nothing short of bizarre- in acknowledgement of my corked 2001 Block 6 Shiraz I was offered one of 525 cases of 2019 Block six at a $10 a bottle discount. So screw me- a customer with a corked bottle and screw a faithful “key holder “ member who misses out on scarce allocation.

So bizarre I feel I just lay the correspondence out here. Not interested in their wines now so since they offered to sell me Block 6 in compensation I have offered they buy back my perfectly cellared collection of Block 6 back to 1992.

Incidentally, my B6 was a cellar door purchase whilst staying at the winery accommodation.

Good afternoon James,

Thank you for your email, we are so sorry to hear you encountered a corked Kay Brothers wine. This is the very reason we moved to screw caps so many years ago, and have not encountered any issues since.
We are very pleased the second bottle was a success! How wonderful to taste such an old vintage.

Unfortunately, we are not able to replace such an old vintage. However we do have a small selection of back vintage wines only available at Cellar Door. The current price list is attached. These wines are never discounted, but we are willing to offer you 10% off any of these wines in consideration of the corked bottle.

We are also just about to release the new vintage of Block 6, the 2019, in a couple of weeks on the 30th March. We would also be happy to extend our Keyholder member pricing of $110, compared to an RRP of $125, as well as free delivery.

If you would like to take up either of these offers, please let us know.

Many thanks for supporting Kay Brothers.


Cellar Door
T 08 8323 8211
F 08 8323 9199
E info@kaybrothers.com.au

Hi Jamie,

Unfortunately, we do not have a policy to replace wines of that vintage, it is the very reason we moved to screw caps to eliminate corkage which has always been a risk as you would be aware.
Covid certainly has been tough for many people and small businesses everywhere, I am sorry to hear you have been affected I do hope the Block 6 that was not corked brought a smile to your face.

Kind regards
Jacqui

And of course, their museum price list double the secondary market price!

One less winery I will purchase from. I have a few vintages of Block 6 in the cellar. That won’t be getting added to. Disgraceful customer service.

Cheers
Ian

ticklenow1 wrote:One less winery I will purchase from. I have a few vintages of Block 6 in the cellar. That won’t be getting added to. Disgraceful customer service.

Cheers
Ian

Yes agree, there is a difference between being quaint (certainly felt that way when I visited a year or two back) and being responsive and moving with the times. Drank all my Block 6s and Hillside Shiraz 20 years ago.
Plenty of other wineries in the Vale.
Cheers Craig

That's the sort of indifference that we might expect in Europe, but really stands out in Australia, where the realisation of the impact of cork taint is so much higher, along with a widespread acceptance that customers should not lose out.

How bad is such publicity? I still recall the posts here (or was it on Winestar) about Claudio Radenti and Lindy Bull refusing to replace corked wine. I guess that was knocking on 2 decades ago! Bad PR can last a very long time.

Hi Jacqui

I’m flabbergasted frankly. And somewhat insulted.

I’m too scared to open my perfectly cellared Kay Brothers as they are a chance of fault without replacement. Would your management be interested in purchasing my Block 6? I’m sure you could sell them for double. Maybe a corporate tasting for high fliers?

I have never experienced such appalling and nonchalant customer service over a faulty product. I’ve travelled the wine world and this takes the cake. How can a consumer have good faith in your products?

Jamie

I’ve 26 bottles of Block 6 included six packs of 02 & 04. Singles of 92, 94 and 98. I hope they buy them back.

The wine is at its peak too according to Robert Parker’s glowing WA write up which was plastered over their website and newsletter before purchase. So a cellar door purchase and 20 years in climate controlled storage doesn’t fit a timeline of their responsibility for a product! Abbreviated note below.

96-98 points Robert Parker: "The 2001 Shiraz Block 6 - effort is Shiraz at its most concentrated. Anticipated maturity: 2010-2025. Patience!" (10/02)

p.s. whilst I understand replacement vintages are often not available, the very least they could do is offer a comparable vintage, or at worst a current vintage as some places do. Asking someone to shell out for a replacement themselves with a mere 10% discount offered is indeed insulting. It comes across as laughable marketing in the face of the customer. Now imagine what would happen if Jamie bought one of those bottles and it was corked! TBH it would look better if they simply said "f*ck off" than ask a wronged customer to send good money after bad as they've done.

FWIW I never did value Parker's pronouncements on Australian (or frankly any) wine. That said, TNs from CT users suggest it's not dead. It is however corked, and an offer to send them the bottle to assess is often a good hint that this is a wine enthusiast who knows WTF they are talking about.

I used to recommend to people that Kay Bros Amery was a must visit when in McLaren Vale... not any more.

This is disgusting customer service - if you can call it that. They sold a faulty product they should replace it, Covid is not an excuse. Treatment like this for a long term customer is not just petty, it's incredibly stupid.

Plus, if cork was such a problem and the reason they switched to screwcap, then why do they bottle their magnums under cork? Are they going to have the same head in the sand, not going to replace it attitude when people strike a TCA effected magnum that currently costs $150-300 direct from them?

I've been on the Kay Brothers Amery mailing list for around 18 years - they will get a call today to take me off it. If this is their attitude to their most loyal customers, Halliday's Wine Companion should seriously consider docking them a star, and Langtons should consider pulling them from their classification.

[img]https://i.imgur.com/Z3Yzw0g.png[/img]

n4sir wrote:I If this is their attitude to their most loyal customers, Halliday's Wine Companion should seriously consider docking them a star, and Langtons should consider pulling them from their classification.

[img]https://i.imgur.com/Z3Yzw0g.png[/img]

I have no quibble with either the complaint or the comments in this thread but surely one can't dock a star or lower a classification since those are awarded based on the quality of wines or investment value. I have to say the new bottle looks ugly - the old-fashioned labels were so much better.

Mahmoud.

Mahmoud Ali wrote:I have no quibble with either the complaint or the comments in this thread but surely one can't dock a star or lower a classification since those are awarded based on the quality of wines or investment value.

Mahmoud.

Yeah, I knew the Langtons was a reach, as their ratings have always been based pretty much on sales figures and little if anything else.

As for the Wine Companion, I guess I am showing my age here - once upon a time that star rating for a winery had things like cellar door facilities and customer service factored in. Under those old requirements, I'd have an argument - now, maybe not.

Hey, it's all in fun, and gets conversations going. Sometimes I bang out an opinion ignoring the little voice in my head that is trying to tell me to tone it down and it gets me into trouble.

Mahmoud Ali wrote:I have to say the new bottle looks ugly - the old-fashioned labels were so much better.
Mahmoud.

That's only the look of the Block 6 1.5L magnums - the 750ml label is still the same old-fashioned design.

I’ve never had a winery on the Langton’s Classification not replace a corked wine. Except Kay Brothers. I’m unsure of the the definition of Langtons, however, as an investment to potentially lose 5% of your investment due a fault, and without recourse, is significant.

I would never have bought their wines if they stated a NO REFUND policy. To suggest in the email I knew the risks of taint, and to hide behind a small South Australian family business facade, an indecent practice.

JamieBahrain wrote:I’ve never had a winery on the Langton’s Classification not replace a corked wine. Except Kay Brothers. I’m unsure of the the definition of Langtons, however, as an investment to potentially lose 5% of your investment due a fault, and without recourse, is significant.

I would never have bought their wines if they stated a NO REFUND policy. To suggest in the email I knew the risks of taint, and to hide behind a small South Australian family business facade, an indecent practice.

I've never had a winery not replace a corked wine. Very Strange policy.

I have worked for a number of wineries over the journey, at times you get the odd customer complaint like: "I have had the wine before, but something wasn't quite right with this bottle this time", in response we have always sent a replacement regardless. A corked bottle is pretty straight forward no brainer.

Hopefully, the person at Kays that responded was inexperienced and made a mistake.

This is a breach of their statutory obligations under the Australian Consumer Law (ACL). It is a faulty product, the law is black and white in this issue.

https://www.accc.gov.au/consumers/consumer-r ... guarantees

Under the law, they must either Repair, Replace or Refund. Obviously repair is out so it is either replace or refund.

i would write them pointing out that they have legal obligations under the ACL that they must honour. I would hold their feet to the fire on this if it were me.

Brodie

It’s exhausting & insulting to experience this
You will need to write a letter of demand
There is a template on the Consumer website
If they don’t respond in 7 days then approach the local Sheriff in the court and lodge a claim.
Twice I have done this
It works
Good luck
Don’t let it go Jamie

It’s actually illegal for them to mislead you of your Warranty rights
You don’t want to exceed your Warranty rights
The same year would be perfect but current vintage is fine

I have been offered an $70 gift card. Museum Stock of Block 6 starts at $100 for the 2011. Current release has been offered to me at $110. If you shop around Dan Murphy often cheaper- a reason I fell off the list years ago along with having to commit to other wines to access Block 6.

So I won’t bother Kay’s by taking up the gift card. It is a strange way to conduct yourself as a family winery. I appreciate this may be the corporate-like, customer recovery training that staff get these days.

I’ve re-offered the buy-back of my Block 6 collection. Keen to move on from Kay Brothers.

Amazing. Fair enough that they can't replace an antiquity. But they should send you 2 bottles of current release - one as a replacement, and one as an apology. How can that not even be a policy of theirs?

Wow. What a read! That is shocking customer service. Does it for me too. Won't be making anymore purchases from this winery moving forward.

A positive update. The saga made it back to Colin Kay who has offered a bottle from his own collection. I’m glad he was made aware. In dealings with Colin 20
Years ago he was a kind host.

I was not expecting a replacement for the 01.

JamieBahrain wrote:A positive update. The saga made it back to Colin Kay who has offered a bottle from his own collection. I’m glad he was made aware. In dealings with Colin 20
Years ago he was a kind host.

I was not expecting a replacement for the 01.

It's good that Colin is looking into your case but the damage is already done.

Jamie - what do you do if you get a corked Cappellano or Bartolo?

tarija wrote:Jamie - what do you do if you get a corked Cappellano or Bartolo?

I would drop the wine back to Augusto or Maria Teresa for replacement. In my bi-annual visits to the region I would return corked wine.

If I were to buy expensive Barolo in Australia I would probably now check the policy for returning obviously faulty wine. Will I get a retail or importer refund?

I would never buy from an Australian winery that refused to replace a wine we both deemed cork tainted. There’s a lake of fine wine- and taint is still an issue- so why would you take the risk?

This feels like an Ideal moment for a heated debate about the benefits of screwtop in avoiding TCA Vs the lack of air ingress which means they age very slowly.

Let the games begin

I only have 9 bottles of Block 6, three of the 2010 and a half dozen of the 2012 which was just before the price started creeping up towards the 100 from under 80 ... I was always a fan of Kay Brother's having enjoyed several visits to their cellar door, but frankly this thread makes me think of just selling them.

Dragzworthy wrote:This feels like an Ideal moment for a heated debate about the benefits of screwtop in avoiding TCA Vs the lack of air ingress which means they age very slowly.

Let the games begin

We are due for this again... for one simple reason... I am ready to recant my sins and be more forgiving to cork.
(for red wine, of certain kinds, but still... never thought I would say that!)