The Auswine Forum

I'm sure this won't be a huge thread, but what is the use of covering cork seals with wax on the neck of wine bottles? I first noticed it with Fourrier burgundies, but more lately Sami-Odi and some of Standish wines, I think the Relic. And now a new purchase for me, Sentio Beechworth Chardonnay. I don't mind the seal, but aside from visual what is the use? Does it stop oxidation or is there another reason? As I say, not a super duper topic, but it is nice to know why. It is a tad difficult to cut the wax away before pulling the cork, but I wonder if you guys just screw the opener thru the wax and pull the cork out?
Cheers.

Interesting question, Hacker

A quick search offers a number of articles on the pros and cons, but the majority view seems to be its for the aesthetic quality primarily. One site I found (a producer of the wax) claimed it prevented wine deterioration and cork deterioration - but as the cork is still in contact with the wine, it certainly would not prevent cork taint. It would, however, reduce the ingress of oxygen into the wine through the cork.

Removing the wax is difficult, depending on the hardness of the wax. Some are soft and pliable, and therefore it's like peeling off a thick plastic, but there have been some occasions where chipping away at a hard wax has been a messy exercise. Not fun, especially when all you want to do is open the bloody bottle.

I have a couple of dozen bottles in the cellar with wax seals - some French but mostly a reputable Swan Valley producer, and I will continue to have the same issues depending on the hardness of the wax.

Cheers
Allan

I don't know what other wineries believe but one of the most traditional Rioja winery, Lopez de Heredia, use a wax seal only on their gran reserva wines, Tondonia and Bosconia, wines that are meant for extended aging. I cannot pretend to understand why a Chardonnay might need one, or another wine that is meant for short to medium term cellaring. Somehow I think cosmetics and trendy packaging might have something to do with it. As far as I know I have only a couple of bottles with a wax seal, one is an old Graham's VP and the other, most likely for effect, is an American Pinot Noir with wax all the way down the neck.

Here is what they say at Lopez de Heredia:

Why our great wines are sealed with wax?

"Since 1877, we have kept wines that, due to the extraordinary quality of grapes, have been better disposed to ageing. These are our “Gran Reservas” (Special reserves) or “Great Wines”. We make a special selection in certain years, and only from the Viña Tondonia estate (where we make Gran Reserva whites and reds), and the Viña Bosconia estate.

It would be absurd to even think of sealing young wines with wax, when they are meant for immediate use. Why waste time sealing a bottle that is going to be drunk in a few days time? It would be more of a nuisance than anything. But the Gran Reservas, being more ambitious wines and specially selected for quality, need to be perfectly sealed – they are, after all, going to be kept for several years. Thus they also need a good quality cork to help them develop from youth to adulthood and on to maturity – and then aged – even if they do not reach what we call a “Great Wine”. Great wines need, first and foremost, to be “truly old”, and then “perfect”, within the various criteria that could contribute towards this perfection in each vintage or wine. These “Great Wines” deserve to be treated with “reverence”, adorned and presented in the most dignified and respectful way.

In order to achieve this noble title, they need to be nurtured – in the crib where they sleep, the room that is their abode, the air that they breathe, the temperature within which they nestle, the hands that stroke them, the container in which they are kept, the cork that seals them, and of course with their own personal seal. Needless to say, all of the processes in this long chain need to be natural. As the main protagonist, the wine should be carefully aged, the barrel which accommodates it should be made of good quality oak from selected origins, and similarly the cork should be carefully selected.

Even after all this pampering and care on the part of the bodega workers; after being poured into an elaborate bottle (similar to the old fashioned blown bottles weighing more than 700 grams with a fortified glass base) and after being corked with a natural, long, compact and flexible cork, the wine is still not great yet. It needs to spend many years in the darkness of a bottle ageing cellar, where the relatively high humidity causes mould to form on the exterior of the bottle. The wine will slowly evolve in this environment, and after 6, 8 10 or even more years, it will become a great wine with an exceptional personality.

Experience has shown us, however, that no matter how good the cork’s seal, it can never be perfect under such conditions unless it has an additional external cap to protect it. Experience has also shown us that the ideal product to protect the cork from mould and insects in drier environments is sealing wax. Sealing wax ensures that we do not have to replace the corks."

Cheers ................................. Mahmoud.

Yes largely decorative I think. The Penley Estate Eos and Helios that I recently purchased both had wax seals. I notice the $350-400 Yalumba Caley has the wax seal.
Cheers Craig

I have noticed that it is very popular in Spain, occasionally seen in France, and I can't recall ever seeing an Italian or German wine covered by a wax capsule. Historically I didn't see it much in Oz but I guess it is becoming popular. I think it is an easy way for the producer to mark out that they intend the wine to be different to everything else (until everyone starts doing it).

By the way, from plenty of experience- definitely just insert the corkscrew through the wax and remove the cork directly. Trust me it will work. If you try and remove the wax itself you will just make a mess or cut yourself.

I like Lopez de Heredia, but that really is a lot of flowery crap in the explanation, which does rather reinforce my prejudice that wax is a pompous annoyance that they think confers prestige.

sjw_11 wrote:
By the way, from plenty of experience- definitely just insert the corkscrew through the wax and remove the cork directly. Trust me it will work. If you try and remove the wax itself you will just make a mess or cut yourself.

Sam is spot on here, absolutely no need to remove the wax. Insert screw thru the wax and treat it like any other bottle.

I also don’t see any real use for wax capsules, other than making the bottle look sexy and expensive.

As an aside, one of the very few white burgundy domaines to almost completely escape pre-mox is Raveneau. They use wax capsules, which has led to some speculation as to whether the wax capsule is helping prevent oxygen ingress. There is no answer here just speculation.

Ian S wrote:I like Lopez de Heredia, but that really is a lot of flowery crap in the explanation, which does rather reinforce my prejudice that wax is a pompous annoyance that they think confers prestige.

I’ve been in their cellars and was asked to pick a few wines for a tasting with my friends. One I distinctly remember was a 1954 Gran Riserva. All of the wines are covered in thick black mould. I can’t recall if the wines waxed at this stage ( unlabelled ). I have photos but can’t access them. If the wine wasn’t wax sealed at this stage I agree that explanation flowery waffle. If they were wax sealed I’d back then on their comments as they’ve experience with their very humid cellars.

+1 on the corkscrew straight through the wax...

Once you pull the cork through the wax then, do you not get a messy pouring lip?
Or is work needed once the cork is out?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mmyy1cPwzi8

Thanks Scotty

The question needs to be asked of these producers is why they are still sticking tree bark in the bottle!!?

Hacker wrote:but aside from visual what is the use? Does it stop oxidation or is there another reason?

Purely cosmetic (unless you have mould/insects/etc actively attacking an exposed cork). It doesn't reduce oxygen transmission through the cork.

brodie wrote:

sjw_11 wrote:By the way, from plenty of experience- definitely just insert the corkscrew through the wax and remove the cork directly. Trust me it will work. If you try and remove the wax itself you will just make a mess or cut yourself.

Sam is spot on here, absolutely no need to remove the wax. Insert screw thru the wax and treat it like any other bottle.
Except if the wax is a hard wax - then just driving through it can create more mess, with wax getting into the bottle. For hard wax, I often chip the wax off first.

Rory wrote:The question needs to be asked of these producers is why they are still sticking tree bark in the bottle!!?

Because it literally can taste quite nice: a hint of tree bark flavour does impart aromatics, and a lot of people - whether they are aware of it or not - like it (and that doesn't mean that screwcaps aren't a valid alternative either).

Scotty vino wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mmyy1cPwzi8

Seems a bit brutal?

In Spain was shown how and witnessed the opening of very old wax sealed Rioja by simply tapping the edges with a knife. I never got near their proficiency and my tapping technique produces shrapnel.

Hacker wrote:It is a tad difficult to cut the wax away before pulling the cork, but I wonder if you guys just screw the opener thru the wax and pull the cork out?
Cheers.

Definitely just put the corkscrew through the wax and pull....gently. I tried cutting the wax a couple of times and ended up with a mess!

I have a number of wax sealed bottles - Kaesler Old Bastard, I think a few old Giaconda Shiraz, Ergo Sum Shiraz, and Chapoutier Ermitage Le Pavillon to name a few.

There are also some wines that have cork closures with a wax "coin" on top - Henschke comes to mind, and Torbreck Stuie Shiraz. These are quite nice to look at as there is usually no capsule and so you can see how the cork is surviving through the glass of the bottle.

Rory wrote:The question needs to be asked of these producers is why they are still sticking tree bark in the bottle!!?

+1

I keep banging on about this. Imagine if wine had just been discovered/invented today and they held a competition to find the best way to seal a bottle. How far would "a piece of tree bark" have gone before it was culled. Not far. Wine stored in bottles was developed many centuries before modern closures were around. Cork was the best at the time. Time to move on methinks. I know there is some romance around cork, particularly in Europe and USA, but we need to move on. In a recent episode of Succession (TV series) those with far too much money had set up a winery and the first vintage was delivered for tasting. It was shit wine but yet they were more focussed on it not being under cork. All I know is when I open a bottle under screwcap I know exactly how it will taste. Very very occasional misfires but so much more consistency than cork.

Chuck, I don't know how a wine will exactly taste, but it won't taste stripped like TCA.
Cheers Craig

Hey Chuck,

Imagine if North America was discovered today. Would the world allow or, more to the point, would the Brits themselves drive the natives off their land, exploit it for their own personal gain, put the remaining surviving indigenous people onto reservations, and forcibly take their children away from them in order to "civilize" them. I think not. Not to put too fine a point on it but what I'm trying to say is that we are where we are because things happened long before we came along and we have to sort things out the best we can.

As for wine, long before the use of cork they were stored in amphorae and "sealed" with a layer of oil, likely olive oil as everyone back then knew it was better for the cardio-vascular system. Cork arrived on the scene long after the discovery/invention of wine. Today we have the screw cap and it is up to the producers to decide how they prefer to seal their wine. As for me I buy the wine I want regardless of the seal.

If I were to imagine if wine had just been discovered or invented today, I suspect it would be marketed by large corporate/industrial beverage concerns. They likely wouldn't put them in glass bottles, of different shapes, sizes and colours according to region and variety, with paper labels and information on production methods. It would be mass marketed in cans and plastic bottles, with a pull tab and screw cap. And think about it, we wouldn't even have magnums, only the box wines. Makes me shudder.

Cheers ....................... Mahmoud.

Mahmoud Ali wrote:Hey Chuck,

Imagine if North America was discovered today. Would the world allow or, more to the point, would the Brits themselves drive the natives off their land, exploit it for their own personal gain, put the remaining surviving indigenous people onto reservations, and forcibly take their children away from them in order to "civilize" them. I think not. Not to put too fine a point on it but what I'm trying to say is that we are where we are because things happened long before we came along and we have to sort things out the best we can .

hey Mahmoud

It’s a wine forum. How about not being a sanctimonious flog?

I'm not being sanctimonious. Somebody talked about what ifs and wondered how things would have played out if wine was invented today. I made a real life analogy based on current affairs. People in Australian may not know this, and for that I apologize, but right now Canada is undergoing serious introspection about what we did to our indigenous people. Since the 18th century indigenous children were forced, yes forcibly taken away from their parents, to be taken away from their family and community to attend residential schools. They were not allowed to speak in their native language, essential to be stripped of their cultural and linguistic identity. Since most of these schools were run by the Catholic Church sexual abuse was rampant. In May this year a mass grave of 215 children was discovered on the grounds of a former residential school in Kamloops, British Columbia. The nation was shocked, forced to come face to face with the legacy of what was done. Work is now underway to search the grounds of other residential schools across the country. Already other unmarked graves have been found.

Since May of this year the Canadian flag has been flying at half mast all across the country. It was only raised just prior to Remembrance Day (the equivalent of your ANZAC Day) on November 11th because the government had to deal with the tradition of lowering the flag on Remembrance Day. How do you lower the flag when it is already lowered. That was just three weeks ago. It is topical here and i suppose out of place in an Aussie forum.

Don't get your knicker is a knot, there are plenty of other examples. What if insulin was discovered today? Would the inventors have given it away for free? Oxford University said they would donate their rights to the Covid-19 vaccine to a drug manufacturer so as to distribute it for free or at cost, until they were persuaded otherwise by the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation.

Lots of things would be different if what transpired earlier took place today. We can't assume. Same with corks!

Whilst I would agree this has drifted off topic, and should get back onto wine, I cannot support calling someone sanctimonious for raising it, because it is important to acknowledge, regret and commit to do better ourselves. So thank you Mahmoud.

Well the same goes to you Ian. Minus the flog title .

Let’s get back to wine? I’m well travelled and well versed in history and fair and balanced discussion on matters easily offends the woke with their throw away lines.

JamieBahrain wrote:Well the same goes to you Ian. Minus the flog title .

Let’s get back to wine? I’m well travelled and well versed in history and fair and balanced discussion on matters easily offends the woke with their throw away lines.

Jamie
Pull your neck in.
Regards
Ian

Well Jamie, admittedly you have flown quite a bit I hear, so good for you as far as that is concerned. As for throw away lines mine was far from it, rather it was an analogy based on an issue that is currently topical in Canada. Furthermore it isn't "woke" on the part of Canadians to lament their treatment of the indigenous people of our country and how their children were mistreated in residential schools. I think we all understand that the past is the past and Canadians would not dream of doing it today. Acknowledging it is not woke. Pretending that we are still in that era while posturing and blaming present day citizens for the past would be "woke".

I understand that some Australians may be sensitive to this issue because you have a history that is not too different from ours. My choice of analogy was based entirely on Canadian current affairs, nothing else. Substitute it with the Belgians in the Congo, the Spanish in Latin America, or the Mongols all over the place, the list would be long.

I don't really see why this should be too hard to understand.

Cheers ...................... Mahmoud.

Hi Jamie, it is impossible for myself and others to tell what you intended with your choice of words "fair and balanced". But to use a phrase that has been basically trademarked by Fox News as their slogan is at best unfortunate in the context of what was being discussed.

Anyway we should get back to wine related matters.

cheers Brodie

Ian S wrote:Jamie
Pull your neck in.
Regards
Ian

It was another typically sanctimonious post.Now if you enjoy self-flagellation over the ill’s of your colonialist past 400 years ago good for you. Plenty of what bugs him is still happening all over the world right now, sectarian violence and more often than not in the Islamic world, but that’s all a conspiracy? China’s popped up here too and just wow we had the apologists who would prefer to forget about what’s happening in the NW or HK and soon Taiwan.

So keep it a wine forum and pull your own head in.

brodie wrote:Hi Jamie, it is impossible for myself and others to tell what you intended with your choice of words "fair and balanced". But to use a phrase that has been basically trademarked by Fox News as their slogan is at best unfortunate in the context of what was being discussed.

Anyway we should get back to wine related matters.

cheers Brodie

Not sure what you’re banging on about Brodie. I don’t watch Fox News if that’s your argument? Mahmoud is being sanctimonious and now he’s predictably progressed to his incessant barbs at Australia claiming sensitivities and comparisons to Aboriginal Australians. It’s a wine forum FFS and having lived on communities I take great offence at the woke simplification of very painful issues and possibly unsolvable issues.

Stick to discussing wine if you don’t mind. Because there’s no balance in your objections considering the waffle that was put to text by Mahmoud.

Boys

If you want to continue the non wine speak then please all sign up for wine-pages as Tom has a secret members only politics thread where a few of us, Mahmoud included , can vent out political outrage. Most is obviously aimed at UK politics, but I think the outrage in Canada, which I was totally unaware of, would make a good topic.

My Ruggabellus arrived last week and they have gone from a screw cap to cork and a wax stopper. The wax comes from a nearby aviary, is light in colour, smells tremendous and looks pretty good. Had I not been sitting in a local bar, I’d post a picture.

I've never had any drama with wax. I just cut around the top like a would a metal or plastic capsule, put the corkscrew in and the whole lot comes out nicely.