The Auswine Forum

I am active in reading reviews both on here and on TWF and a couple of these reviews on wines I just don't agree with. Now I happily declare that I am nowhere near an expert, and I know my taste and wine evolution is different to many others, and that is the joy of wine. And quite frankly, my opinion is, well, irrelevant.

But are there any wine scores from the experts that you just don't 'get'? I have two. The first is Hoddles Creek pinot. I always see it in the 93 point area year after year, but personally I find it quite simple. Great PQR I understand but there you go. I mean no disrespect to the family that owns the winery, I think many of their other wines, especially their chardonnay, to be great. The second example (and I feel I am in a very small minority here) is Sami-Odi Little Wine from most years. I love Barossa shiraz but this doesn't do it for me. Fraser's vintaged releases I will walk over hot coals to procure.

Then, there is that old chestnut Wendouree. But that has been done to death.

I hope this thread doesn't become a slanging match with peoples opinions varying wildly, and Gavin if you don't like this, please just delete.

Krug mv

"orange" wine

dont get it and dont really like it.

Hacker wrote: The first is Hoddles Creek pinot. I always see it in the 93 point area year after year, but personally I find it quite simple.

Oh snap. For me its a $25 Pinot masquerading as a $25 Pinot.

These 2 come to mind:
Cullen Diana Madeline
Bass Phillip Pinot

Ozzie W wrote:These 2 come to mind:
Cullen Diana Madeline
Bass Phillip Pinot

Those 2 are what I'd start with too.
In a slightly cheaper bracket, the St Hallett Blackwell is another that wasn't at all in my wheelhouse despite getting strong reviews.

Alex F wrote:Krug mv

We're arguably the reverse, in getting this, but no other champagnes have excited us in the same way, with only a small few getting a begrudging "it's ok". We've had such poor value out of champagne, that we maybe buy / drink a bottle every two years or so. 5 bottles sit in the cellar, of varying age.

In Italy, although I've had a small few genuinely enjoyable / complex wines, my success rate with Brunello has been dire. They seem to be aiming at a US audience that has different views on balance to me . Stylistically I much prefer Vino Nobile and if not that, then some chianti classico / rufina. Alternatively some of the better producers of Sangiovese in Emilia-Romagna.

Sfursat/sforato also has left me a bit nonplussed, and I'm not convinced it's the best use of nebbiolo grapes. I have however got a Travaglini version from Gattinara to see if they've made something that might change my mind

Grenache - pretty much across the globe. Too often jammy upfront fruit and without the grip of tannin (or acidity) that could keep it balanced, nor enough complexity beyond that initial blast of fruit. I did once think that I liked it in Gigondas, until I found out the ones I liked had significant syrah in the blend

Ozzie W wrote:These 2 come to mind:
Cullen Diana Madeline
Bass Phillip Pinot

I’ve just come from a friends 60th and a wine opened was a Bass Phillip Premium 2014. Just an acidic mess. An embarrassment that all drinkers tossed down the sink, and it wasn’t cheap. By comparison there was also a 2012 Fourrier vv Gevrey Chambertin at 1/3 the cost which was a revelation.

Ian S wrote:In Italy, although I've had a small few genuinely enjoyable / complex wines, my success rate with Brunello has been dire.

That is interesting... my wife and I just had a 2015 Il Poggione Brunello the other night (which got 97 from both Antonio "I will score anything" Galloni and the Wine Advocate) and we were just lost. You could sort of see the quality, but the balance just wasn't there. I think in 15 years it might look pretty neat, but it was odd. I don't pretend to be the Brunello expert of course.

This thread promises to be great fun...

From what people have said already, I agree with: Cullen, and 10000% with Orange wine. Natural wines mostly just don't do it for me (and it isn't the funk, I love fino sherry and I don't mind the best of Jura... I just think most of them are bloody faulty).
I agree Hoddle's Creek is not so good as the rave reviews, but honestly the QPR and the nice packaging make it perfectly fine in my book.
I like Krug, but I understand how the style could be polarizing.

Otherwise... hmm. I think for me, it is mostly a question of not "getting" the QPR of certain wines/regions. Like Burgundy for instance. Or the Ribera del Duero. Some lovely wines, but everything decent starts above AU$50 equivalent, for wines that remind me of nice, warm climate Aussie wines at c$20-30.

I doubt anyone here would even go for it, but Moet (the basic release) has to be the biggest prank pulled on the world. Such garbage for so much money (relatively).

sjw_11 wrote:
I doubt anyone here would even go for it, but Moet (the basic release) has to be the biggest prank pulled on the world. Such garbage for so much money (relatively).

I've heard it described as - Euro-Jacobs Creek. Pretty apt.

Ian S wrote: Grenache - pretty much across the globe. Too often jammy upfront fruit and without the grip of tannin (or acidity) that could keep it balanced, nor enough complexity beyond that initial blast of fruit. I did once think that I liked it in Gigondas, until I found out the ones I liked had significant syrah in the blend

Hi Ian, if you're interested, try some of the new Australians, particularly from McLaren Vale. They have my Burgundy/Barolo loving friends in thrall at the moment. S C Pannell, Yangarra, Vanguardist, Paralian come to mind right now. Ochota Barrels as well (RIP Taras). All dialling down the ripeness and oak significantly.

Cheers
Andrew

Thanks Andrew - I'd always give them a taste, though I think it would be quite miraculous for me to love one, but moderately enjoy would at least be cause for celebration at a preconception shattered!

Bass Phillip Pinot, all levels.
(PS, there is nothing to "get" with these wines, it's the emperor's new clothes )

d'Angerville, all level
(PS, see above)

Single Vineyard wines...generally hideously expensive, and are they any better than blends from the same areas (i.e.) in many instances across the road?
Yes I buy them, but do they detract from the overall product?
Cheers Craig

Ozzie W wrote:These 2 come to mind:
Cullen Diana Madeline
Bass Phillip Pinot

^ +1

mjs wrote:

Ozzie W wrote:These 2 come to mind:
Cullen Diana Madeline
Bass Phillip Pinot

^ +1

+2

And putting my head on the chopping block, most Yarra Valley wines, most Kiwi Sauvignon Blanc and Wendouree. I know that puts me in the minority......

Breaks my heart all the Cullen mentions. Some of my favourite wines of the year have been Kevin John and Diana.

For me it's Clonakilla. Good not great wines for me.

hmm i've had some mixed wines from Charles Melton.
I've had some really nice experiences with the Richelieu but some of the other heavy hitting shiraz and blends i've ran into some really odd stuff that I didn't like at all. Drank an 02 Hen.Mt ed recently and it was off the scale amazing. followed up with a 2008 nine popes and it was chocolate bomb, OVER oaked vegemite yeasty mess. Buddy and i just left half a bottle it was very disapointing. Maybe write it off as a one time thing but iv'e ran into this before at the cellar door with the Grains of Paradise shiraz. Same flabbed out profile with nothing redeeming in sight. I'm still on board with some of the wines in the line up but yeah hmmm.

Ozzie W wrote:These 2 come to mind:
Cullen Diana Madeline
Bass Phillip Pinot

Dammit I always forget to include these. Mainly as I dont drink them (for reasons already mentioned)

Still boggles my mind how some people rave about them

Also chateauneuf-du-pape is out for me as well (however im probably in the minority here)

Penfolds Bin 28 - had a cheap burnt oak taste to it across the few vintages I've tried.

High alcohol bombs like Noon, Wild Duck Creek, etc. Gloopy, soupy and hard work, and so not food-friendly.

Barbera - mostly tastes like generic Italian red table wine to me, don't see much point in these for $30+.

Condrieu - viognier seems blowsy and low acid, Condrieu adds a high price tag to the situation...no thanks.

I've been fortunate enough to regularly drink Red Burgundy wine from most of the great producers. For the last 16 years a near weekly experience, whether a formal tasting or just a few bottles with friends. I've been guided through the region by top local collectors and friends who are importers for some of the most lauded producers. Whilst there have been some excellent wines, some even exceptional on occasion, I don't get the fuss. With prices having boomed beyond the reasonable, the myth has perpetuated with the masses. Pulling the cork on a fine Red Burgundy is a social media frenzy for many these days.

Anyways, Burgundy has been done to death. Wouldn't be sad to never have another bottle. Far more soulful wine regions about for mine.

Two that consistently underwhelm: Moss Wood Cab & Mount Langi Ghiran Shiraz.

Jamie, Please forgive me, but I struggle to get barolo. There, I've said it (running for cover). I just find it just too strict and structured with less fruit than my palate is used to. And I do have quite a bit in my cellar having listened to the Siren call from your good self and GW. I may come around; thats why I bought from about 10 years ago, to anticipate changes in taste direction.

Fair enough Hacker! Nothing worse than this day and age where you are told so often what you should like.

My Siren call was about when Bartolo Mascarello was $60AUD. Cappellano/Rinaldi less. To be honest, I'm seeing these wines better received now they're more expensive and from some quarters ( like Burgundy ) I wonder if people really like what they drink? I see this a lot from being involved with events where the famous draws the crowd yet an up and comer which is drinking just as well shunned.

Had an Aussie shirazathon the other night. Some top wines in magnum ( 2001 Dead Arm ). Bowled over by the fruit and it was more a dessert experience from where my northern Italian palate preferences calibrated from.

Without trying to give a plug for Barolo, what I do like is if its underperforming drink the next day or with food. Generally a transformation like few others.

Sauvingnon Blanc - Just can't like it. Regularly called "giggle juice" at our place.
Pinot Noir in general. For those that know me, this will come as no great surprise to them. Had the odd bottle where I think "I could get into this", but then the majority I've had I've thought them as ordinary at best. The fact that every decent one I've had has been rather expensive, rules them out for me. I can't afford to like Pinot!!
The Parkerised, big, high alcohol fruit bombs from the mid 2000's on. It's funny, I used to enjoy this style when they were young wines. But as my palate has evolved I find them real hard going to drink more than a glass now. Most haven't aged well at all. Regularly out of balance and end up being more like port than table wine. Perfect example is Greenock Creek. The big 15%+ alcohol wines have aged terribly but for instance the 2010 Seven Acre Shiraz at 14% we had the other night was just stunning. The 3 high alcohol ones we had before that over the last few months, went down the sink.
Penfolds. I just can't get excited about their red wines any more. I'm sure they are good in some cases, but to my palate they suffer from a sameness across vintages. Add in the crazy price rises and the value is no way near where it once was. The white wines have quite impressed me recently to the point I have purchased some.

I'm not looking to start an arguement over the above thoughts, that is just where I'm at.

I agree with the many references to Cullen Diana Madeline. I've had it several times and always been underwhelmed, especially considering the price. I find Moss Wood a much better Cabernet.
As for Hackers reference to Hoddle's Creek, I don't drink the Pinots but the Chardonnays are incredible. Especially the Road Block and Syberia.
The Wendouree references I can understand. When you get a great bottle, it's like "wow", I get it now. But then I have had more average bottles than great ones.

Cheers
Ian

Hacker wrote:Jamie, Please forgive me, but I struggle to get barolo. There, I've said it (running for cover). I just find it just too strict and structured with less fruit than my palate is used to. And I do have quite a bit in my cellar having listened to the Siren call from your good self and GW. I may come around; thats why I bought from about 10 years ago, to anticipate changes in taste direction.

Hi Hacker
Although modernisation has brought even many traditionalist producers round to the idea of making the prestige nebbiolo wines approachable when young, what you say is a fair reflection of what the wines are, with tannic grip still very much part of the experience (except for those at the extreme modern end). Whilst there is a decent level of fruit upfront, the tannins typically used to (and often still do) rather overtake the fruit in its for 10-15 years from release. It's less certain to be like this than it was though.

For me the real charm comes way down the line, when the tannins recede and wonderful yet delicate complexity emerges (but that is not a guarantee). It may be about the fruit then, but not the fruit it was, but rather what it has morphed into, though with the original fruit profile still recognisable if you can catch it at a good time.

If you want it for rich, vibrant fruit, then it's the wrong grape and you're probably best avoiding it, though what you have in the cellar is a useful each-way bet
a) if your palate changes, or you have one of those 'road to Damascus' moments, then you've got a head start in chasing more
b) if that never happens, the way Barolo prices are going, you'll be able to sell them and buy some wine you'd really like and might not otherwise feel you can afford. Being such durable wines can be a big bonus!

Regards
Ian

JamieBahrain wrote:I've been fortunate enough to regularly drink Red Burgundy wine from most of the great producers. For the last 16 years a near weekly experience, whether a formal tasting or just a few bottles with friends. I've been guided through the region by top local collectors and friends who are importers for some of the most lauded producers. Whilst there have been some excellent wines, some even exceptional on occasion, I don't get the fuss. With prices having boomed beyond the reasonable, the myth has perpetuated with the masses. Pulling the cork on a fine Red Burgundy is a social media frenzy for many these days.

Anyways, Burgundy has been done to death. Wouldn't be sad to never have another bottle. Far more soulful wine regions about for mine.

Hi Jamie
Sort of a similar experience, with me realising that I really don't enjoy young red Burgundy at all (whereas I can enjoy young nebbiolo wines). I have however experience those breath-taking moments with a couple of bottles bought at auction 1969 vintage, drunk less than a decade ago. I can't recall the wine off the top of my head, but a fine but not prestigious appellation / vineyard. It was so exciting to a Burg loving friend that he had something of a crisis of confidence, wondering if he's been drinking all his bottles too young, enjoying them, but not to this degree. Just 9 bottles sit in my cellar, the oldest a pair of 1993 Domaine des Comtes Lafon Volnay 1er Cru. Happy to take the risk on drinking them over-mature, as that's where my successes have been.

Will I buy more? Probably not current releases, but might one day have another play in the auction scene.

Regards
Ian

ticklenow1 wrote:Sauvingnon Blanc - Just can't like it. Regularly called "giggle juice" at our place.
Pinot Noir in general. For those that know me, this will come as no great surprise to them. Had the odd bottle where I think "I could get into this", but then the majority I've had I've thought them as ordinary at best. The fact that every decent one I've had has been rather expensive, rules them out for me. I can't afford to like Pinot!!
The Parkerised, big, high alcohol fruit bombs from the mid 2000's on. It's funny, I used to enjoy this style when they were young wines. But as my palate has evolved I find them real hard going to drink more than a glass now. Most haven't aged well at all. Regularly out of balance and end up being more like port than table wine. Perfect example is Greenock Creek. The big 15%+ alcohol wines have aged terribly but for instance the 2010 Seven Acre Shiraz at 14% we had the other night was just stunning. The 3 high alcohol ones we had before that over the last few months, went down the sink.
Penfolds. I just can't get excited about their red wines any more. I'm sure they are good in some cases, but to my palate they suffer from a sameness across vintages. Add in the crazy price rises and the value is no way near where it once was. The white wines have quite impressed me recently to the point I have purchased some.

I'm not looking to start an arguement over the above thoughts, that is just where I'm at.

I agree with the many references to Cullen Diana Madeline. I've had it several times and always been underwhelmed, especially considering the price. I find Moss Wood a much better Cabernet.
As for Hackers reference to Hoddle's Creek, I don't drink the Pinots but the Chardonnays are incredible. Especially the Road Block and Syberia.
The Wendouree references I can understand. When you get a great bottle, it's like "wow", I get it now. But then I have had more average bottles than great ones.

Cheers
Ian

Wow!! Ditto all the above. Thought I was alone. I have always been disappointed not "getting" Pinot Noir (wallet is happy with that) although I do drink it occasionally. Can't tell much between a $30 and $100 version. Agree Cullens DM and for that matter many of the premium Margaret River Cabernets from a QPR view. Last Greenock Creek Cabernet was as per your views. Liked it on purchase but the oak and alcohol were OTT after a decade. Penfolds 1986 Bin 389 at $8.99 in 1990 was a wine that turned my head. Too many better examples of the style at much lower prices now.