The Auswine Forum

From page 10 of the June 2020 issue of Decanter.

"A new method developed by Amorim, the world’s largest natural cork maker, could eradicate the cause of corked wine. The Portugal-based cork specialist claims its new technology can root out the main culprit of cork taint, TCA, or 2,4,6-trichlroanisole. CEO António Amorim told La Revue du Vin de France that his company will be able to guarantee its corks ‘have a TCA risk equal to zero’ as of December 2020."

I am hopeless.

Same mistake... seriously.

OK OK I'll bite. Hey it's been while... cork vs screwcap debate anyone?? Sorry....

In some ways your extra posts are analogous of the endless TCA-free promises we see that are just near-meaningless 'guarantees', not actual elimination of TCA at low levels. However fewer TCA affected bottles can only be a good thing, so any so called progress is likely good progress. My old caveat of variable air ingress still remains however, more an issue with corks for me than TCA over the longer term.

Given a choice I prefer cork over screwcap. But only if I am assured the cork will be both free of TCA and consistent to the best corks in its air ingress level. Which doesn't seem possible....

P.S 'equal to zero'? Um so you mean actual zero? Why not just say 'Zero risk of TCA' then? Spin or me being pedantic?

Def spin.

This old story again. Batches of these special tested corks are still being rejected today by big companies with TCA levels over 2%.

We have been hearing this garbage from cork producers for years. I simply don't believe it.

It would be nice if this was a legally enforceable guarantee in all the jurisdictions they sell corks. But guarantees...they are dangerous things. So I doubt it.

More garbage.

Any improvement in lowering the chances of TCA is always good news. With most of my cellar under cork, including most of my Australian wines, I wish that today's better quality corks were available back then.

I'm happy with the improvements to cork but not happy with the quality ....

Happy to see any of the cork alternatives...DIAM, Nomacorc, Ardea, screwcap....

Lots of GC Burg under DIAM now..pretty happy about that..

This is like reading about projects to improve the carburettor, or CRT televisions.

Great news as many of the world's greatest wines will never be under anything else.

Giacomo Conterno has been claiming this for a number of years- taint free Monfortino.

I have friends who are Austrian riesling producers and they believe their wines are too good for screw cap and are happy to pay for expensive cork with lower levels of taint. I'm no expert on Austrian riesling though I do present the case of beautiful Aussie whites under screw cap. Can't convince them. Perhaps the bigger, fatter Austrian rieslings better suited to good cork.

I've no idea why its such a contentious issue to discuss the dynamic debate of closures? It was always going to be this way, we are only now seeing the strengths and weaknesses with adolescent ageing of wines under other closures.

GraemeG wrote:This is like reading about projects to improve the carburettor, or CRT televisions.

In the context that almost all cars still run a carburettor and all the great TV's are CRT's and fuel injection is untested and flatscreen TV's are not available and.... well nothing like it. What an abstract comparison.

Seems to be a serious amount of angst and petulance surrounding an important topic.

It's not like the forum is awash with discussion and this is cluttering more important issues.

Any attempts at improvement, or claims of improvement are worth of discussion. Whether through the lens of the cork/screw cap debate or entirely independent of them.

As Polymer said, it's great to see more and more quality focused producers in Burgundy and other regions using DIAM now (often DIAM 30). I'm happy with that as an alternative to traditional cork, seems more consistent with ingress and TCA risk is closer to actual zero than the so-called 'TCA-free corks' which simply aren't, no matter how they try to spin it.

Not trying to start a debate on the closures, just rolling my eyes at the Amorim spin. But if they take the risk from low to even lower, that's a good thing.

I thought your original post was constructive.

I agree with your eye rolls.

Not going to lie though, when I see this stuff, the eternal optimist in me gets a little excited haha.

JamieBahrain wrote:Great news as many of the world's greatest wines will never be under anything else.

Do you consider DIAM to be cork?

So far the change to DIAM for Leflaive, Lafon and Fevre appear to be paying off...at least so far.

Hard to say at the moment.

But of the Top 500 wines of the world say, most under cork. Leflaive, Lafon, Fevre and Jadot would be in that 500 too.

What do you mean? You don't know if you consider DIAM to be cork or not?

Polymer wrote:...at least so far.

Haven't you answered the question for me?

It's a high technology cork-based closure that seems to be working well for white Burgundy....."at least so far". Would I consider it the same as the conventional cork of old? Technically NO. Would I want my Barolo collection under DIAM? Not yet. White Burgundy? Yes.

Perhaps to avoid long-winded debate just tell us your thoughts?

JamieBahrain wrote:

Polymer wrote:...at least so far.

Haven't you answered the question for me?

It's a high technology cork-based closure that seems to be working well for white Burgundy....."at least so far". Would I consider it the same as the conventional cork of old? Technically NO. Would I want my Barolo collection under DIAM? Not yet. White Burgundy? Yes.

Perhaps to avoid long-winded debate just tell us your thoughts?

How did I answer the question for you?

Some people consider DIAM to just be a variation of a cork. Some people don't consider it to be a cork at all even though it almost entirely made from cork. I don't think either answer is right or wrong but I'm asking because if you're stating the great wines of the world will never be under anything else then do you mean to say DIAM is a variation of a cork and included in that or not?

Why would you consider it for White Burgundy but not Barolo? I'm asking not because I'm fishing for an answer but because I'd like to understand what the differences people see or think. This is, after all, a forum to discuss such topics.

But my personal opinion is: I think DIAM seems to be a good middle ground and I don't consider it to be a cork. Does it add cork flavor like cork? Seems to. Do wines appear to age normally (as per how they do with cork) with DIAM? Seem to so far. Does it leech out any binding agents into the wine? Maybe. Is it better from a TCA perspective? Yes. Is it better from an oxidation perspective? Probably. Does it solve White Burgundy Premox? Seems to be helping but not sure. I think as long as there appears to be short/medium term success you will see more wines move in this direction.

I actually think there will be a split. I think certain wines will move towards screw cap (Or Nomacorc or Ardea) as their profile fits the freshness of screwcaps or non cork based better. Some wines will move towards DIAM...This is already happening but more generically. I think eventually there will be a more selective choice of closure based on the type of wine (or style) rather than just an alternative to cork.

My statement was better quality cork is great because many of the world's greatest wines will stay under cork. Perhaps more will move to DIAM, though with better corks it won't be as desperate a move as some white Burgundy producers. I'd be happy with Leflaive under a rubber closure to be honest- that's how appalling the faults were in my experience and discussions with friends in the high end trade.

Why not Barolo and DIAM? There's too much happening too soon- sure I'm ok with some producers experimenting with their Langhe nebbiolo and Barolo classico. There are still many unknowns with DIAM that we'll learn in time- no need to walk off a cliff when for a euro you can get a "TCA" free cork. And aside, if Piedmont is to continue its amazing quality rise of the last decade, one easy consideration is addressing cork quality. Roberto Conterno is on to it though others slow- for instance Vietti is entering ultra-premium pricing and it would seem their TCA too high by anecdote.

Do I consider DIAM cork? Not really sure why it requires a black and white answer? You seemed either surprised or just abrupt with me saying IDK. And even if it is in the context of my original statement that "many" of the best wines in the world will stay under cork, whether DIAM includend or not is inconsequential by definition of many?

JamieBahrain wrote: Do I consider DIAM cork? Not really sure why it requires a black and white answer? You seemed either surprised or just abrupt with me saying IDK

It doesn't need to be black and white. But I wasn't sure what you were trying to say.

Simply your answer to my question is, you don't know whether you consider it cork or not..but you didn't say that until your last response. Truth be told, I'm surprised you don't have an opinion on that but even if you're not sure, it would be interesting to hear why or your analysis as to why...

If asked "Is DIAM cork?" by a stranger, I suspect most of us would caveat the response. Absolutely a grey area.

For us who have unfortunately had to take an interest in this subject, most would see DIAM as a separate product to cork, screwcap and vinlok type glass seals.

Ian S wrote:If asked "Is DIAM cork?" by a stranger, I suspect most of us would caveat the response. Absolutely a grey area.

For us who have unfortunately had to take an interest in this subject, most would see DIAM as a separate product to cork, screwcap and vinlok type glass seals.

Diam is an extruded mix of treated cork, glue and fillers (microplastics?).
Fresh, they have a distinct plastic odour and this can translate to the wine. Give them air and the distinct odour lessens.
This can still move into the wine. Some tasters can identify diam on occasions. The freshness of the diam at bottling may be a contributor.

I think the "glue" smell in DIAM wines was dispelled and it even suggested cork and screw cap sales skullduggery. The binder is neutral.

I'm sure the more technical have details or links.

We've descended into the normal cork Vs screwcap discussion with a twist (or should that be a screw?)...we can't work out whether DIAM is a double agent...and whether or not the agents that hold it together may smell?

Let's hope for anything to break away from sectarian closure debate.

There is no screwcap debate for me. It is not relevant because the wines I drink are not available in any other closure but cork.

Screwcap might be the greatest closure in the universe, it would make no difference.

I am always surprised when people bring screwcap into a discussion where it is simply not an option.

My last three bottles of wine since posting all from Piedmont. One cork- an expensive Barolo. One DIAM 3- cheap Barbera though with three glasses. One DIAM 5- a nebbiolo from Valmaggiore.

The Barolo just slightly advanced. Good but not good enough. No complaints with the DIAM.

Benchmark wrote:There is no screwcap debate for me. It is not relevant because the wines I drink are not available in any other closure but cork.

Screwcap might be the greatest closure in the universe, it would make no difference.

I am always surprised when people bring screwcap into a discussion where it is simply not an option.

Snap.

My academic interest in the subject passed years ago. Pragmatism wins. Most makers don't give you an option, so who cares.