The Auswine Forum

I know this will be controversial, but, broadly speaking, what do you feel are the best regions in the country for each varietal or common blend?

I am cutting down on my drinking and am focussing on purchasing top quality drops that can age, hence the reason for the question. Quality over quantity!

Open to hearing all answers...

Oh boy oh boy, this should be fun!

My 2cents:

Shiraz: Barossa and Mclaren Vale; HV for a totally different style.
Cabernet: Margaret River, Langhorne Creek and Coonawarra.
Merlot: Pass.
Pinot: Victoria, I don't have a strong view, I will leave the pinotphiles. Some Tassie also very good.

Chardonnay: Victoria (Yarra & Mornington), Margaret River.
Riesling: Clare, Eden Valley.
Sav Blanc: Orange.
Semillon: Duh. HV.

Shiraz/Cab: Barossa.
Bordeaux Blend: As for Cabernet.

Thanks for the input, Sam.

Never even heard of Langhorne Creek, any wineries you recommend?

Orange is an interesting choice for SB, wouldn't have thought of that. I find the SSB or SBS blends from Margaret River the best and generally better than just straight SB (really not into Marlborough - style stuff at all).

I agree with those spots in Victoria being awesome for Chardonnay, as well as Pinot Noir.

As for Merlot, I can't think of any straight examples, actually now that I think of it.

Cheers,
Nick

Nick Wine Guy wrote: As for Merlot, I can't think of any straight examples, actually now that I think of it.

Cheers,
Nick

Blue Poles (MR) have a great Merlot

If you are planning on limiting your drinking on certain varieties from certain regions, you are going to miss out on a lot.
I don't think any list you can make at the moment is static either. Personal preference plays a part too.

Lets take Pinot Noir for example. You'd probably argue that the Yarra Valley and Mornington are the premier regions. I've only considered Mornington to be up the top tier since around 2010. Tasmania may well be in this conversation in another 10 or 20 years although I don't think they aren't quite there yet. Now having said that, If I was asked to name what I think is the best pinot in Australia, I'd go with Bindi Block 5 from Macedon. A lot of people would say Bass Philip from Gippsland.
As another example, Clare and Eden were identified as the top regions for Riesling. It's hard to argue with that, but if I was to pick one Riesling, it would be Crawford River from Henty. There'd be a lot of votes for the Seppelt Drumborg too. My most regularly bought Riesling in recent years is Ravensworth form Canberra. There is also plenty of good Riesling happening in Tasmania and towards the bottom of Western Australia.

I guess what I am saying is be careful about locking yourself in to specific regions. You'll miss out on good stuff, you won't get to see how other regions evolve to become contenders and you may miss on wines that might better suit your personal tastes.

paulf wrote:If you are planning on limiting your drinking on certain varieties from certain regions, you are going to miss out on a lot.
I don't think any list you can make at the moment is static either. Personal preference plays a part too.

I guess what I am saying is be careful about locking yourself in to specific regions. You'll miss out on good stuff, you won't get to see how other regions evolve to become contenders and you may miss on wines that might better suit your personal tastes.

Totally agree. I think a good wine/varietal can come from any region (within reason).

Nick Wine Guy wrote:Thanks for the input, Sam.

Never even heard of Langhorne Creek, any wineries you recommend?

Some of the better known brands situated there are Bremerton (Old Adam Shiraz is the Flagship), Bleasdale (Frank Potts in the flagship), Lake Breeze and Temple Bruer.

Langhorne Creek is probably better known for its Shiraz and Cabernet. In my view its a region that goes under the radar a bit, whilst there are the established wineries and brands within the region, a lot of fruit sees its way into many other wine brands; the fruit is generally of good quality - for Shiraz and Cabernet, the price per tonne is significantly less than Barossa, Mclaren Vale, Coonawarra etc. Its a pretty good region for the big boys to pick up good value fruit and blend it. As an example, wines from Wolf Blass, particularly the Grey label, often have a % of Langhorne Creek. Langhorne Creek fruit finds its way into things like Bin 389 also.

Worth seeking out in my view.

Cabernet - Margaret River, Coonawarra
Shiraz - Hunter Valley, Barossa … depending on your style
Pinot - Tassie

Sem - Hunter Valley
Riesling - Eden/Clare Valley
Sav Blanc - Adelaide Hills
Chardy - Margaret River

Andrew Jordan wrote:Cabernet - Margaret River, Coonawarra
Shiraz - Hunter Valley, Barossa … depending on your style
Pinot - Tassie

Sem - Hunter Valley
Riesling - Eden/Clare Valley WA Great Southern
Sav Blanc - Adelaide Hills
Chardy - Margaret River

Adding as above.

Matt@5453 wrote:

paulf wrote:If you are planning on limiting your drinking on certain varieties from certain regions, you are going to miss out on a lot.
I don't think any list you can make at the moment is static either. Personal preference plays a part too.

I guess what I am saying is be careful about locking yourself in to specific regions. You'll miss out on good stuff, you won't get to see how other regions evolve to become contenders and you may miss on wines that might better suit your personal tastes.

Totally agree. I think a good wine/varietal can come from any region (within reason).

Seconded! No wait, it's thirded.

I'm not a regular enough drinker of Aussie wines these days to make a reasonable stab at this, but from my own perspective I'll say

Shiraz: Anything but Barossa/McLarenVale (they're just not what I enjoy). Hunter Shiraz might be variable, but very much more in my style slot. Grampians (Great Western) would just shade it for me, but both that an Hunter Shiraz can co-exists in the same cellar. Other good examples elsewhere in Victoria.

Chardonnay: The ultimate blank canvas, I'd argue that it's 90% about producer and 10% about region. Thus no winning region for me.

Langhorne Creek suggestions: Not a fancy winery, but I've always enjoyed Bleasdale's 'Frank Potts' blend, a dog's dinner of grapes go into it, but that simply seems to give it good complexity from the off.

Riesling: No complaints about the Eden/Clare Valley, but good examples are surprisingly widespread.

I'm not a regular enough drinker of Aussie wines these days to make a reasonable stab at this, but from my own perspective I'll say

Shiraz: Anything but Barossa/McLarenVale (they're just not what I enjoy). Hunter Shiraz might be variable, but very much more in my style slot. Grampians (Great Western) would just shade it for me, but both that an Hunter Shiraz can co-exists in the same cellar. Other good examples elsewhere in Victoria.

Chardonnay: The ultimate blank canvas, I'd argue that it's 90% about producer and 10% about region. Thus no winning region for me.

Langhorne Creek suggestions: Not a fancy winery, but I've always enjoyed Bleasdale's 'Frank Potts' blend, a dog's dinner of grapes go into it, but that simply seems to give it good complexity from the off.

Riesling: No complaints about the Eden/Clare Valley, but good examples are surprisingly widespread.

Matt@5453 wrote:

Nick Wine Guy wrote:Thanks for the input, Sam.

Never even heard of Langhorne Creek, any wineries you recommend?

Some of the better known brands situated there are Bremerton (Old Adam Shiraz is the Flagship), Bleasdale (Frank Potts in the flagship), Lake Breeze and Temple Bruer.

Langhorne Creek is probably better known for its Shiraz and Cabernet. In my view its a region that goes under the radar a bit, whilst there are the established wineries and brands within the region, a lot of fruit sees its way into many other wine brands; the fruit is generally of good quality - for Shiraz and Cabernet, the price per tonne is significantly less than Barossa, Mclaren Vale, Coonawarra etc. Its a pretty good region for the big boys to pick up good value fruit and blend it. As an example, wines from Wolf Blass, particularly the Grey label, often have a % of Langhorne Creek. Langhorne Creek fruit finds its way into things like Bin 389 also.

Worth seeking out in my view.

Wolf Blass was somewhat disparaged as a blender of wines when he first started making wines but his first Black Label made people take notice since it won the prestigious Jimmy Watson Trophy. The 1973 Black Label was comprised of 80% Langhorne Creek cabernet sauvignon. Wolf Blass went on the win the trophy twice more making it three years running. He was quite complimentry of Langhorne Creek and is supposed to have said something to the effect that a good Black Label wine will have Langhorne fruit.

I will add that Clare Valley cabernet is underated because during a trip there many years ago I preferred the cabernet to the shiraz at several cellar doors, viz. Sevenhill, Brian Barry, Eldrege, and even a Jim Barry cabernet blend.

My advice is follow the producer not the varietal or the region.

Cheers .............. Mahmoud.

I'm not sure the actual question is the best one for the outcome you're looking for, but anyhoo, lets poke the bear -
Shiraz - anywhere, depends on the style you like
Cabernet - Coonawarra Margs
Pinot Noir - Yarra, Mornington. Tasmania should be on this list but IMO isn't there just yet
Riesling - same comment as Ian, Eden and Clare are the established stars, but Tassie will eventually overtake, and I'm very partial to Canberra
Chardonnay - see Shiraz
Merlot - seriously - forget it. New Zealand.

What Wizz said. Nailed it, especially with the Tassie Pinot comment, I can't think of one I've ever wanted another glass of.

And I like Mahmouds final sentence too, Producer, producer.

Andrew Jordan wrote:Cabernet - Margaret River, Coonawarra
Shiraz - Hunter Valley, Barossa … depending on your style
Pinot - Tassie

Sem - Hunter Valley
Riesling - Eden/Clare Valley
Sav Blanc - Adelaide Hills
Chardy - Margaret River

As above, but for Pinot Noir swap to Mornington & for Sauvignon none, or if someone insisted, New Zealand.

As some have pointed out, it's all about producer. Generalising the quality of an entire region doesn't work in Australia. For example, I can't say if Yarra Valley, Mornington Peninsula, Macedon or Geelong is best for Pinot Noir. I think there's too many variations in the terroir within each Geographical Indication (GI) in Australia. But I can say with confidence that Gembrook Hill, Main Ridge Estate, By Farr and Bindi make great Pinot Noir. Which one is the "best" depends on personal style preference. For a varietal like Shiraz, the differences are stark between say Barossa and Great Western. One isn't better than the other, just very different.

Perhaps we just need a lot more experience with terroir and varietals clones in Australia and over time regions will begin to stand out as being the best? They got there with Burgundy and Piedmont.

Saying all that, there are certainly some regions where specific varietals won't do well regardless of producer, e.g. Coonawarra Pinot Noir (sorry mjs).

Ozzie W wrote: ... there are certainly some regions where specific varietals won't do well regardless of producer, e.g. Coonawarra Pinot Noir (sorry mjs).

And then there are the exceptions ... like the time I was served a pinot noir at Redman cellar door (or Rouge Homme?). It was a cellar door only wine and the grapes foot-trod as told to me by the person serving me who did some of it. Limited production, gently made, it was lighter in colour than any of the reds I had in Coonawarra and was rife with earthy pinosity.

Mahmoud.

Mahmoud Ali wrote:

Ozzie W wrote: ... there are certainly some regions where specific varietals won't do well regardless of producer, e.g. Coonawarra Pinot Noir (sorry mjs).

And then there are the exceptions ... like the time I was served a pinot noir at Redman cellar door (or Rouge Homme?). It was a cellar door only wine and the grapes foot-trod as told to me by the person serving me who did some of it. Limited production, gently made, it was lighter in colour than any of the reds I had in Coonawarra and was rife with earthy pinosity.

Mahmoud.

Hollick has been making Pinot Noir in Coonawarra since 1986. Like the Redman one you referred to, I'm sure they're an interesting expression of Pinor Noir. But the Coonawarra terroir is not going the bring out the best the varietal can offer.

Fair enough Ozzie, I didn't mean to suggest that the Redman was anywhere near one the better examples of pinot noir, just that it was interesting in its own way. I suppose the idea that a winery was making a foot trod wine was almost enough to make it memorable. I wonder if anybody else makes a foot trod wine.

Mahmoud Ali wrote: I wonder if anybody else makes a foot trod wine.

I recall reading (or seeing a photo of Joe) somewhere, that the "Stoney Rise" Project X Pinot Noir is foot trod

Wizz wrote:I'm not sure the actual question is the best one for the outcome you're looking for, but anyhoo, lets poke the bear -
Shiraz - anywhere, depends on the style you like
Cabernet - Coonawarra Margs
Pinot Noir - Yarra, Mornington. Tasmania should be on this list but IMO isn't there just yet
Riesling - same comment as Ian, Eden and Clare are the established stars, but Tassie will eventually overtake, and I'm very partial to Canberra
Chardonnay - see Shiraz
Merlot - seriously - forget it. New Zealand.

Regarding the Riesling comment, I don’t think it will ever overtake Clare, but would be confident in saying it will (very) soon be on par with Eden. The latter hasn’t produced the goods consistently for 20 years now. There was some great stuff in decades gone by, but not lately. Canberra and Vic are making some smart stuff too as already stated.

A_Steady wrote:

Mahmoud Ali wrote: I wonder if anybody else makes a foot trod wine.

I recall reading (or seeing a photo of Joe) somewhere, that the "Stoney Rise" Project X Pinot Noir is foot trod

d'Arenberg still do foot treading.

[img]https://www.darenberg.com.au/assets/images/T ... 10x484.jpg[/img]
(Photo from https://www.darenberg.com.au/viticulture-and-winemaking)

Mike Hawkins wrote:

Wizz wrote:I'm not sure the actual question is the best one for the outcome you're looking for, but anyhoo, lets poke the bear -
Shiraz - anywhere, depends on the style you like
Cabernet - Coonawarra Margs
Pinot Noir - Yarra, Mornington. Tasmania should be on this list but IMO isn't there just yet
Riesling - same comment as Ian, Eden and Clare are the established stars, but Tassie will eventually overtake, and I'm very partial to Canberra
Chardonnay - see Shiraz
Merlot - seriously - forget it. New Zealand.

Regarding the Riesling comment, I don’t think it will ever overtake Clare, but would be confident in saying it will (very) soon be on par with Eden. The latter hasn’t produced the goods consistently for 20 years now. There was some great stuff in decades gone by, but not lately. Canberra and Vic are making some smart stuff too as already stated.

I think it will. But i'm a biassed acid hound, with Mosel Nahe and Rheingau as my style benchmarks.

Ozzie W wrote:

A_Steady wrote:

Mahmoud Ali wrote: I wonder if anybody else makes a foot trod wine.

I recall reading (or seeing a photo of Joe) somewhere, that the "Stoney Rise" Project X Pinot Noir is foot trod

d'Arenberg still do foot treading.

[img]https://www.darenberg.com.au/assets/images/T ... 10x484.jpg[/img]
(Photo from https://www.darenberg.com.au/viticulture-and-winemaking)

Looks like three generations here. Please, I have to know, which wine do you think they are they making?

Barossa should give up on Cabernet. It is appalling (how is that for a sweeping provocation)

Ozzie W wrote: Saying all that, there are certainly some regions where specific varietals won't do well regardless of producer, e.g. Coonawarra Pinot Noir (sorry mjs).

Ozzie, I can confidently agree with you that there are no good pinots from Coonawarra. I did buy some examples from Hollicks in the 80's but they were crap. Having said that, Mt Gambier and Henty more broadly appear to be emerging regions for pinot.

Give me Adl Hills, Mornington and hot spots in central Vic (eg Curly Flat) for pinot

Craig(NZ) wrote:Barossa should give up on Cabernet. It is appalling (how is that for a sweeping provocation)

Penfolds Kalimna Block 42 begs to differ

Craig(NZ) wrote:Barossa should give up on Cabernet. It is appalling (how is that for a sweeping provocation)

Well, this thread will inevitably lead to difference of opinion, so heres a way to get that started...

Craig(NZ) wrote:Barossa should give up on Cabernet. It is appalling (how is that for a sweeping provocation)

Sure, there are there better regions in Australia to grow Cabernet. But I've still had some excellent ones from the Barossa over the years.