The Auswine Forum

Does this look like it's definitely been heat affected? It's got wine going up halfway and a spot where it goes a bit wider in the middle.

2012, Coonawarra Cab Sauv, bought from a nice bottle shop that would have had A/C (no saying what happened prior) and kept in its original box in a cupboard in its side away from heat since purchase, until recently in a wine fridge.

It's come out of my wine fridge at 13C, but as of yet no untoward or cooked/porty flavours. It does taste a bit dull, but could be due to the cold temp.

Thoughts? If not heat affected based on flavour, maybe a compromised cork to begin with?

To me that looks like it was a bad cork to begin with

Agreed, it's a cork. All too often they do that. Only fault is the producer's choice to use that closure.

Do other bottles of the same wine taste the same or not is the big question.

Every single bottle of Greenock Creek wines i have ever bought ex cellar door and stored perfectly look like that. Wines have been fine though.

It's Casella, if that helps at all?

When it warmed up, still flat tasting, no fruit to discern at all. Cellartracker gives it a few more years and the label says cellar up to 10 years, so sounds like I got a badly closed bottle?

To that point, should I contact the winery to see if I can get a free one (bottle is finished)?

Nick Wine Guy wrote:
To that point, should I contact the winery to see if I can get a free one (bottle is finished)?

I think if the wine was drinkable enough to finish the bottle that would be a bit cheeky. If it were me, if I had more I would open one soon and if that was exactly the same and you felt it was faulty, then I would not drink the second bottle, re-cork it and ask about a refund for that one/any remaining. Otherwise just chalk it up as experience.

Cork hasn't appreciably leaked. The wine could be compromised in other ways, such as storage, or mild TCA, but on the face of it, on photographic evidence alone, I wouldn't blame that cork for the wine tasting crappy.
Graeme

TiggerK wrote:Agreed, it's a cork. All too often they do that. Only fault is the producer's choice to use that closure.

I don't see that many do this that I've bought on release and cellared professionally for 20+ years.

Looks like the wine got a baking in transport or storage. Who knows? But it ain't right.

Not a fan of un-trialled screw capped reds but a plus for them in hot storage the seal stays intact - unlike cork which sees movement and oxy ingress.

Maybe not many, but still some.

Storage conditions don't matter when the fact is that some corks let through much more air than others. That's the real issue, inconsistency.

And TCA of course....

Yes that cork could well have been heat affected, but not necessarily, to me the issue sounds more like low level TCA, or maybe just not a great wine and a crappy quality cork. Perhaps a bit of everything!

The Cork Quality Council grading would indicate this cork is
GRADE C
_______________________________________
These are corks of average visual appearance with one or more major visual flaws which will be of cosmetic nature only. Thus they may be aesthetically unappealing, but functional.
• No cracks, channels, hardwood or belly spots which exceed 55% of cork length. (your cork looks like 75%)
• Lenticels and horizontal cracks on body may open up when ends of the corks are bent.
• Greenwood to 55% of cork length is acceptable unless severe depth or width.
• Large chips are acceptable.
• No worm activity from end to side which exceed 55% of cork length.
• No dry years which exceed 55% of cork length.
• There may be heavy, but not continuous porosity.

https://www.corkqc.com/pages/cqc-visual-grading-standards

Looks like the standard cheap cork that one finds in less fancied Australian wines. Australian wine corks were routinely non-descript back in the old days with neither producer name nor vintage on the cork. Even though this is a 2012 bottle it looks pretty normal for a cheap cork, apparently a Grade C, as Crusty has pointed out.

OK, I appreciate the answers - I have emailed them, so will let you know how that goes.

So, aside from then fact that CT says tasting window is 2017-2024 (https://www.cellartracker.com/m/wines/2545525) and and the bottle itself says it can last 10 years, it sounds like they used a cork aimed for consumption in more like 3 years. It was around $40 or $50 for the bottle, so not super cheap by any means.

It didn't taste (what I believe is) heat affected by the time it warmed up but perhaps slight TCA on the back palate (again, not sure if I know exactly what that tastes like, esp at low level).

I have never heard of this Casella Cabernet but for a $40 wine that is one cheap looking cork. Cassella obviously didn't think it worthwhile to grace it with a quality cork. Here is a photo of the cork from one of my latest go-to house wines, a 2014 Spanish wine from Valencia. It retails for only $11.99 and the cork has the producer name on either side of the cork. In the background is a Taltani cork from a 1981 cabernet that I opened earlier this year. The winery was only a few years old at the time, their first vintage being the 1977, and yet they thought it worth the trouble of putting their name, crest, and on the other side "Victoria, Australia" on a good quality cork. By the way the Taltarni cost about $13 or $14 back in the 80s.
As for the drinking window, any decent cabernet is good for a decade so if this Casella is supposed to any good it should last way more than 10 years. From the sounds of it, dull, flat, and a lack of fruit suggests that it might have closed down and is in a dumb phase. If you have any other bottles just sit on them for at least another 5 to 10 years. I wouldn't rely on Cellartracker for drinking windows.

Cheers ........................ Mahmoud.

Hey guys, thought I'd update this one... The winery eventually sent me a new bottle. Opened it today and the cork looked better than the previous one but some creep still evident. Still has an usual bulge towards the middle - how normal is that?

This wine was much better. Green capsicum, vanilla, fruitiness were all evident, a true Coonawarra cab... Totally different than the previous one, indicating it was in fact compromised.

Out of curiosity, how much wine creep is expected on a cork? This one is about 8 years old at this point.

I'd ask why you are buying wine under cork at this stage?
I don't mean any disrespect, but you kind of reap what you sow.

To me it just looks like not a super great quality cork, in which case a bit of seepage at 8yrs is not too unusual and would contribute to a suggestion to drink sooner rather than later.

Rory wrote:I'd ask why you are buying wine under cork at this stage?
I don't mean any disrespect, but you kind of reap what you sow.

You don't purchase anything that has a cork instead of a screwtop?

Rory wrote:I'd ask why you are buying wine under cork at this stage?

The majority of the world's wines and especially the greatest, are all under cork. That's a pretty dreary recommendation, though not uncommon,from those amongst the Aussie screw-cap "cult"

I was going to say.... Pretty much all of the world's most coveted wines are still under cork, Aussie and American wines included.

Nick Wine Guy wrote:
Out of curiosity, how much wine creep is expected on a cork? This one is about 8 years old at this point.

For 25 years I've been professionally cellaring wine. I'm fastidious about shipping- for instance I'll only ever persoanlly pick-up wines from the likes of Rockfords who ship at summer's onset.

Wine creep is a rarity. Though occasionally I do see evidence of imperfect cork.

Some producers deliberately overfill or something else in the bottling process which stains the cork- perhaps Leroy drinkers can explain this better?

JamieBahrain wrote:

Nick Wine Guy wrote:
Out of curiosity, how much wine creep is expected on a cork? This one is about 8 years old at this point.

For 25 years I've been professionally cellaring wine. I'm fastidious about shipping- for instance I'll only ever persoanlly pick-up wines from the likes of Rockfords who ship at summer's onset.

Wine creep is a rarity. Though occasionally I do see evidence of imperfect cork.

Some producers deliberately overfill or something else in the bottling process which stains the cork- perhaps Leroy drinkers can explain this better?

Do you subscribe to the theory that Australia wine makers don't have access to top quality corks? I've heard this mentioned a few times but I'm not sure if it's accurate or not. It would be interesting as it may suggest some winemakers wish to use cork but choose screwtop out of necessity.

As a complete aside, it's amazing how many times we get to this same topic over and over again.
I don't have enough experience to be able to judge the difference in long term cellaring so I've largely ignored what comes with what seal and just purchased the wines I like. Perhaps I will see in time.

Dragzworthy wrote:As a complete aside, it's amazing how many times we get to this same topic over and over again.

You can say that again!!

Dragzworthy wrote:I don't have enough experience to be able to judge the difference in long term cellaring so I've largely ignored what comes with what seal and just purchased the wines I like.

Regardless of experience with cellaring screwcap wines, just continue buying the wines you like or want. Assume that the winemaker has made the choice they want and go with it. Imagine ignoring an Etna wine because it is sealed with a cork, or the opposite?

Cheers ....................... Mahmoud.

Mahmoud Ali wrote:

Dragzworthy wrote:As a complete aside, it's amazing how many times we get to this same topic over and over again.

You can say that again!!

Dragzworthy wrote:I don't have enough experience to be able to judge the difference in long term cellaring so I've largely ignored what comes with what seal and just purchased the wines I like.

Regardless of experience with cellaring screwcap wines, just continue buying the wines you like or want. Assume that the winemaker has made the choice they want and go with it. Imagine ignoring an Etna wine because it is sealed with a cork, or the opposite?

Cheers ....................... Mahmoud.

Aye aye, completely agree. I'm hostage to the wine makers choice on closure....and I'm perfectly comfortable with that situation.

Rory wrote:I'd ask why you are buying wine under cork at this stage?
I don't mean any disrespect, but you kind of reap what you sow.

Advice for navel gazing Australian-centric wine drinkers.

Personally, most of the wines I drink these days are from Italy, Spain and France, in that order.

Those countries bottle under screw cap at 19, 10 and 31% respectively. (https://www.statista.com/statistics/602729/m ... e-bottles/)

Given we drink mostly red wine, it is likely those numbers are inflated by white wine.

I do not have preference for closures, but the screw cap cult is moving into paleo/cross fit/bone broth territory these days.

Hmm, i'm more than a little dismayed at the amount of comments above in regards to cork or screwcap in reds.
Time will tell i guess... or you've got deep enough pockets to keep chucking expensive, aged wines down the sink.

I would love cork to be the perfect closure, but when I've stashed away enough wines from the '70's to present,opened them to find that TCA has ruined them, and striven to have them replaced by a current vintage , that is also sealed under cork. Only to play the whole game over again, i don' get it.
And it especially rankles me when its the birth year of my Kids and death of my dad (1990, 1996, 1998).
Seriously... the worlds best do it,, we've done it in the past... if that's not navel gazing.. what is?

Change is very difficult for some people.

Yes, change can sometimes be difficult, but what we're saying is that it is not in our hands. We the consumer have no choice but to go along with what the winemaker has decided is best for them. After all we do rely on them for all their other decisions. For some of us it would be a remarkably dull world were we to refrain from drinking and cellaring wines sealed with cork. Entire regions would be put of bounds.

The horror, the horror ..... Mahmoud.

Nick Wine Guy wrote:Hey guys, thought I'd update this one... The winery eventually sent me a new bottle. Opened it today and the cork looked better than the previous one but some creep still evident. Still has an usual bulge towards the middle - how normal is that?

This wine was much better. Green capsicum, vanilla, fruitiness were all evident, a true Coonawarra cab... Totally different than the previous one, indicating it was in fact compromised.

Out of curiosity, how much wine creep is expected on a cork? This one is about 8 years old at this point.

Wow still awful.

Rory wrote:Hmm, i'm more than a little dismayed at the amount of comments above in regards to cork or screwcap in reds.
Time will tell i guess... or you've got deep enough pockets to keep chucking expensive, aged wines down the sink.

I would love cork to be the perfect closure, but when I've stashed away enough wines from the '70's to present,opened them to find that TCA has ruined them, and striven to have them replaced by a current vintage , that is also sealed under cork. Only to play the whole game over again, i don' get it.
And it especially rankles me when its the birth year of my Kids and death of my dad (1990, 1996, 1998).
Seriously... the worlds best do it,, we've done it in the past... if that's not navel gazing.. what is?

Change is very difficult for some people.

I find screw caps more fragile than corks. Also, heat damage is not apparent.

On a different note, I've seen some posts on IG for American Penfolds reps that look like bottles like Bin 28 or recent vintage Bin 389s that are under cork. Is that a common thing for Aussie wines for overseas markets?

sjw_11 wrote:To me it just looks like not a super great quality cork, in which case a bit of seepage at 8yrs is not too unusual and would contribute to a suggestion to drink sooner rather than later.

I'd go with this.

The world's greatest wines are made in such small quantity and are in such demand that the makers can change - or not - what they like with the packaging/seal/label and it won't make a whit of difference to anything.

And if you can sell your annual production with a screwcap or a cork or an oil-soaked cloth sealing it, and you're happy with the wine, why would you change? It's not like anyone's trying for world domination here. Annual production is finite and limited by the vineyard. Not the case with a car or smartphone or health insurance. That's why non-industrial winemakers can afford to be chummy with each other; they're not really each other's competition.