The Auswine Forum

No notes yet, but this is a placeholder for notes on a dinner taking place this Friday in Melbourne.

Due to the gracious generosity of one of our forum members I will be drinking/tasting the following:

Black Label 1965 & 1968.

Black Label 1970 & 1972 & 1976.

1982 Black Label vs John Riddoch.
1986 Black Label vs John Riddoch.
1988 Black Label vs John Riddoch.
1990 Black Label vs John Riddoch.
1991 Black Label vs John Riddoch vs Centenary.
1994 Black Label vs John Riddoch.
1996 Black Label vs John Riddoch.
1998 Black Label vs John Riddoch.
1999 Black Label vs John Riddoch.

Obviously storage and corks will play an issue with the very older bottles, but I really am looking forward to this. I've only had a handfull of Australian "mature" reds and certainly nothing approaching the age of the '65.

A number of forumites are also attending, but even so, if all 24 bottles are in perfect condition, then I will be in anything but A1 condition on Sat. More to follow.

mychurch wrote:Obviously storage and corks will play an issue with the very older bottles...

That would be all of them, yes?
Good luck. Don't be surprised if the black label looks better than JR most of the time.
cheers,
Graeme

Fantastic mychurch, please report, have all of the above. Yes I am still amazed at 82 BL, a couple of single bottles and a couple of magnums tucked away...the fruit expression is stunning and more driven than the JR
88, 94 and 99 are the sleeper vintages, but have all shown really well.

The hangover with be seriously worth it.
Cheers Craig

should be interesting.
firstly, the 91 Centenary from bottle may be past it. Very strange phenomenon, from bottle I have always found it good to very good, no more than that. From magnum, one of Australia's great red wines.
secondly, I have seen the 90 and 91 BL vs JR many times, and the BL has been the better wine from those two vintages every time. I will be fascinated to see how you guys think. I reckon the 90 and 91 BL's are amongst the World's greatest-ever bargains, only wish I had purchased a lot more.
thirdly, all the wines from 1992-2002 are, IMO, ordinary. Mechanical harvesting, over-cropping etc etc led Wynns to a dark place over that time (I have a mountain of the stuff in the cellar, pretty much untouched for many years) I wonder (hope) time has been kind to these vintages, so I look forward to your report on them.

great night ahead!!! waiting with baited breath for the report

Had the 91 JR a few nights ago at Pipers of Penola in the Coonawarra . Excellent performance- beautiful, clean aromatics, long and defined . Needed a little more flesh; capsicum/ eucalyptus bite on the palate made the wine seem a little lean .

I’ve had virtually all those wines in the last 4years but will reserve comments until after the tasting... save for ‘don’t miss out on the 76’...

Every time I’ve had the 1991 Centenary the last few years it has been pretty darn amazing and it’s always been from a 750ml bottle. We had one only a couple of months back and were blown away by how good a bottle it was. As the old saying goes - No great wines, only great bottles (or something along those lines). I do have one Magnum for a special occasion and might wait until our 20th anniversary.

Sounds like an amazing tasting, I hope you enjoy it.

Cheers
Ian

Lots of variation is to be expected, I wonder if they are part of a 'bought on release' type cellar, or various auction bottles, with more recent on release purchases?

My first bottle of 82 JR was one of those 'OMG' wine moments, sadly a few disappointments with others since then.

All the old bottles are from good years, maybe 72 not so much, but praying to cork gods for you!!

Suggest you try and spit a little so that you remember the later bottles! Doing oldest to youngest I assume?

P.S Jealous.

I have written up a few very drunken tastings in the past, but I really don’t think I can take 2 bottles plus anymore, so yes, there will be some spitting.

I assume we are tasting in the order mentioned above, but that can all go out of the window depending on how the cork God’s shine on us. The bottles have been standing up for a week and I presume they are being double decanted before being moved to the restaurant.

Everyone is bringing 3 glasses each, so we can taste in flights.

Very much looking forward to the reports on this one.

mychurch wrote:The bottles have been standing up for a week and I presume they are being double decanted before being moved to the restaurant.

Yes this is my favoured technique unless they carefully transported to the event a week before .

I go to structured events similarly presented to the above awesome tasting most weeks and without being a big head, I’ve found fastidious preparation and respect for the older wines essential .

Gritty and tertiary wines otherwise - give the often delicate fruit a chance

First time I have ever taken wine glasses to work with me. I had thought about bringing the Riedel Sommelier Grand Cru Cabernet Glasses, but I really don’t have a box big enough to fit them in and they do take up a lot of table space. These I believe are the Mature Bdx Glasses, although it’s really hard to tell the difference between these and the Mature Riesling glass.

Thanks for starting thread Mychurch.

Just to answer a few questions.

Most were purchased from auction and the few that were retail probably came from auction anyway.

Will give them all a quick double decant at home to get rid of the sediment, then give most a bit of time in a decanter at the restaurant, maybe from the 82’s onwards.

They will be served oldest to youngest in the brackets listed but each bracket will be blind so not get influenced by the label.

I’m getting very nervous hoping they show well.

Cheers Con.

Envious. Can someone please note the ullage and cork/capsule condition?

Remember to bring the corked ones along as well - some of us are pretty immune to tca

He’s a few before shots with the ullage

I love seeing the old price tags on older bottles - $11.99! Good ullage on these bottles.

Wow.

Those levels for the 60 and 70's wines are all great. You could argue that the 72 is even too high, but I have seen plenty of old wines over the years where the level seem to have not budged.

Good luck with the Corkscrew.

Good looking fill levels there - I suspect that the 1968, (and maybe the 1972 and 1976) have been refilled by Wynns sometime from the look of the capsules. The fill level on the 1965 (which definitely has the original capsule) looks very good indeed.

1991 Centenary in my experience has been increasingly variable recently, usually due to variable levels of cork taint. We have struck a few the last couple of years that have been obviously corked, some that are not quite right and only at the end of the night smell like full on TCA. The really frustrating ones are bottles that are good but not excellent (like a magnum I opened for my birthday this year - over half of the people there thought it was wine of the day, a handful of us who know the wine backwards knew it had just a touch of TCA there).

I hope you guys get a good one, as the best bottles are still jaw droppingly astonishing!

Thanks for those photos! May the cork gods be with you. We are opening a 1991 tomorrow. Looks like the level is a tad lower than yours but very minimal seepage (maybe 5mm) up the cork.

I had the Black Label Cabernet Sauvignon 1998 on Monday night. I noted blackberry and cedary oak on the nose. The palate had dusty tannins, coupled with mulberry, blackcurrant, and briary dark fruits, with some a touch of tobacco.

Almost at the end of 24 bottles

n4sir wrote:Good looking fill levels there - I suspect that the 1968, (and maybe the 1972 and 1976) have been refilled by Wynns sometime from the look of the capsules. The fill level on the 1965 (which definitely has the original capsule) looks very good indeed.

1991 Centenary in my experience has been increasingly variable recently, usually due to variable levels of cork taint. We have struck a few the last couple of years that have been obviously corked, some that are not quite right and only at the end of the night smell like full on TCA. The really frustrating ones are bottles that are good but not excellent (like a magnum I opened for my birthday this year - over half of the people there thought it was wine of the day, a handful of us who know the wine backwards knew it had just a touch of TCA there).

I hope you guys get a good one, as the best bottles are still jaw droppingly astonishing!

Since when do Wynns do refills. I'e been buying their wines from the CD/retail for 35 years, never heard of it. Are you suggesting Red Vs. White print on the capsules denotes such activity?

Cheers Craig

It will take a while to sort out the actual notes, but there a few obvious point.

The first is the Wynn’s needs time. Lots of time. The was little to differentiate the wines of the 90’s and it was only the wines from he early 80’s and 70’s that you thought ‘hmm. Ready’

The other is that anybody collecting the wines should stick to the Black Label. In almost ever round the question ‘Which was the Riddoch’ was answered wrongly. We really could not tell. In some vintages it showed the expected leafy complexity, but in others it was the black label that showed it. Not quite a humbling experience, but the Black Label held its own and it is/was the one to buy.

Many thanks to Con for supplying all these wines

phillisc wrote:

n4sir wrote:Good looking fill levels there - I suspect that the 1968, (and maybe the 1972 and 1976) have been refilled by Wynns sometime from the look of the capsules. The fill level on the 1965 (which definitely has the original capsule) looks very good indeed.

1991 Centenary in my experience has been increasingly variable recently, usually due to variable levels of cork taint. We have struck a few the last couple of years that have been obviously corked, some that are not quite right and only at the end of the night smell like full on TCA. The really frustrating ones are bottles that are good but not excellent (like a magnum I opened for my birthday this year - over half of the people there thought it was wine of the day, a handful of us who know the wine backwards knew it had just a touch of TCA there).

I hope you guys get a good one, as the best bottles are still jaw droppingly astonishing!

Since when do Wynns do refills. I'e been buying their wines from the CD/retail for 35 years, never heard of it. Are you suggesting Red Vs. White print on the capsules denotes such activity?

Cheers Craig

I am not aware of Wynns doing clinics as such, however I know of one specific refill project some years ago that sticks in my mind because it's one of the biggest disappointments in my life...

Back when I was tasting with the Blacktongues around 15 years ago, a local retailer here (who will obviously remain nameless) got in magnums of the 1982 black label that had been refilled, re-corked and re-capsuled by Wynns (I am guessing for their own museum stock, which was probably culled by one of the corporate owners). I must have tried 4 or 5 of those magnums we bought, and every single one of them has been cork tainted.

As to these particular bottles, after a bit of research I must apologize and say they are consistent with the original bottlings. I had not remembered seeing the red print on the capsules before (I have not tried many bottles prior to 1981 that were not magnums) which combined with the high fill levels jumped to the wrong conclusion.

It appears that the old "Wrinkled" black capsules (like on the 1965) were used 1965-1967, from 1968-1981 it was the more modern black with red writing, 1982 onwards it is the familiar white print on black capsules. Prior to 1965 it was wrinkly white capsules to go with the original white labels.

Cheers,
Ian

Wow! What a night. A huge success! A few corked/oxidised wines, but no complaints from me. As they say, there's no great old wines, just great old bottles. A testament to Con's shrewd buying at auction. Others who took tasting notes will post details in due course. Despite all attempts at logic, I couldn't pick between John Riddoch and Black Label for the most part. Argh!

The 1982 Black label was my WOTN, but a previous 1982 John Riddoch that Con presented last year was a better wine IMHO. The 1976 Black Label also a favourite of mine tonight, but it did fade quickly.

A massive thanks and then some to Con for making this night possible and also to everyone else for the great company. I'll never have a tasting like this ever again. I am eternally grateful for Con's generosity.

Bottle photos below:

[url=https://postimg.cc/s1cvtqmp][img]https://i.postimg.cc/s1cvtqmp/IMG-20190712-184448.jpg[/img][/url] [url=https://postimg.cc/LqK9q3v9][img]https://i.postimg.cc/LqK9q3v9/IMG-20190712-184518.jpg[/img][/url] [url=https://postimg.cc/CRfMLQGr][img]https://i.postimg.cc/CRfMLQGr/IMG-20190712-190151.jpg[/img][/url] [url=https://postimg.cc/mtn24sHF][img]https://i.postimg.cc/mtn24sHF/IMG-20190712-190216.jpg[/img][/url]

[url=https://postimg.cc/sQzgL4Z6][img]https://i.postimg.cc/sQzgL4Z6/IMG-20190712-190235.jpg[/img][/url] [url=https://postimg.cc/9zJQxTXb][img]https://i.postimg.cc/9zJQxTXb/IMG-20190712-191844.jpg[/img][/url] [url=https://postimg.cc/Tp1YBwp6][img]https://i.postimg.cc/Tp1YBwp6/IMG-20190712-191910.jpg[/img][/url] [url=https://postimg.cc/0K22k5n7][img]https://i.postimg.cc/0K22k5n7/IMG-20190712-194014.jpg[/img][/url]

[url=https://postimg.cc/ThRPqQxh][img]https://i.postimg.cc/ThRPqQxh/IMG-20190712-194045.jpg[/img][/url] [url=https://postimg.cc/r0qqjyv7][img]https://i.postimg.cc/r0qqjyv7/IMG-20190712-195706.jpg[/img][/url] [url=https://postimg.cc/gLJm9ScD][img]https://i.postimg.cc/gLJm9ScD/IMG-20190712-195739.jpg[/img][/url] [url=https://postimg.cc/Hjsp7x0y][img]https://i.postimg.cc/Hjsp7x0y/IMG-20190712-201534.jpg[/img][/url]

[url=https://postimg.cc/SjTmLhVt][img]https://i.postimg.cc/SjTmLhVt/IMG-20190712-202847.jpg[/img][/url] [url=https://postimg.cc/1fbPTrkG][img]https://i.postimg.cc/1fbPTrkG/IMG-20190712-203001.jpg[/img][/url] [url=https://postimg.cc/hfXcp554][img]https://i.postimg.cc/hfXcp554/IMG-20190712-204513.jpg[/img][/url] [url=https://postimg.cc/McSwZKKX][img]https://i.postimg.cc/McSwZKKX/IMG-20190712-204556.jpg[/img][/url]

[url=https://postimg.cc/ftHQvc70][img]https://i.postimg.cc/ftHQvc70/IMG-20190712-205602.jpg[/img][/url] [url=https://postimg.cc/RJN5pWGp][img]https://i.postimg.cc/RJN5pWGp/IMG-20190712-211157.jpg[/img][/url] [url=https://postimg.cc/vDNdgvHJ][img]https://i.postimg.cc/vDNdgvHJ/IMG-20190712-211208.jpg[/img][/url] [url=https://postimg.cc/HjxgkNH0][img]https://i.postimg.cc/HjxgkNH0/IMG-20190712-212614.jpg[/img][/url]

[url=https://postimg.cc/7fJrgT5f][img]https://i.postimg.cc/7fJrgT5f/IMG-20190712-212641.jpg[/img][/url] [url=https://postimg.cc/zLFryZV7][img]https://i.postimg.cc/zLFryZV7/MVIMG-20190712-201605.jpg[/img][/url] [url=https://postimg.cc/JswVK4XK][img]https://i.postimg.cc/JswVK4XK/MVIMG-20190712-202925.jpg[/img][/url] [url=https://postimg.cc/qN8fFVXr][img]https://i.postimg.cc/qN8fFVXr/MVIMG-20190712-205609.jpg[/img][/url]

Sounds like it was a fabulous tasting, and a testament to old fashioned winemaking that stands the test of time. I only wish Wynns was available in Canada earlier than with the 1996 vintage. The only Black Label we had when I started collecting was Wolf Blass'.

Looking forward to any notes on the wines.

Very disappointed to miss last night's tasting, but just couldn't get away from a prior commitment. Will look forward to some notes, but the brief comments so far are probably what I expected, good bottles of old BL can be sublime. Certainly keen to hear how the '65 was travelling, have had a few very good bottles of that in past years. Sounds like the '76 and '82 were good as you would hope. Not surprisingly my favourite label in terms of consistent enjoyment at just modest expense. Will be opening a bottle of the very first vintage at a birthday bash early next month, although it had a white label back then.