The Auswine Forum

I have a few of the 2001 and some 2012-2016 but the reviews I see on Cellar Tracker seem underwhelming to say the best, and I see your notes Felix! I seem to remember James Halliday proclaimed the 2001 the best cabernet to come out of Australia. I need to do some cellar culling and unless you guys can convince me otherwise these Cullens are first on the chopping block.

I also notice that the Moss Woods over the same timeframe get a lot more Cellar Tracker love.

Thoughts?

I've had some great Cullen's before, but they're not consistently good. Moss Wood and Mount Mary have certainly been much more consistently of a higher standard.

Hey David, I'd say it always seems like good quality fruit, balance is there, although tannins perhaps a little soft. But overall, personally I do find them a bit boring, a bit monodimensional. Although I heard some good reports that the 2017 is showing very well as a young wine, FWIW.

Perhaps grounds for an offline... 'bring out your potential culls' ....

Had another 2008 DM last night, 4th out of a case. I really want to like this wine, and don't get me wrong, it is a nice wine but at $130 / bottle I see much better value elsewhere.

Gosh I must be a minority here. For me they are treasures in my cellar. I wish I could afford more. The 1999's I have had over the last few years have been fantastic. The newer vintages are a masterclass in balance and complexity IMO.

I am of the opposite end of the scale, I have found Moss Wood Cabernet to be over extracted or over oaked. The last vintage I enjoyed was the 2005.

That's wine!

I haven't bought Cullen DM for years but tasted two vintages at the Langtons "Exceptional" tasting in Canberra last year.

My quick impressions were:

2016 Cullen Diana Madeleine – leafy blackcurrant, gravelly tannin and high acidity. Not sure how it will age and not for me.

2011 Cullen Diana Madeleine (magnum) – like the above with more tannin.

Of the cabernets on show I liked the 2013 Wynns John Riddoch the most. The 2012 Mt Mary and 2012 Moss Wood were both quite good and I would happily drink them with a meal but would be in no hurry to buy. I actively disliked the 2015 Penfolds Bin 707 - an oaky travesty.

The above probably says as much about my falling out of love with cabernet and becoming a Burgundy tragic. Everyone has their own taste preferences and I just found the Cullen DM's textbook but boring.

TiggerK wrote:Hey David, I'd say it always seems like good quality fruit, balance is there, although tannins perhaps a little soft. But overall, personally I do find them a bit boring, a bit monodimensional.

+1. I prefer the JR in that price bracket. Fuller in body with better tannin structure. I'm not convinced MR cabs will be significantly better with age. I've tried CD and Moss Wood with age and was underwhelmed and sold remaining bottles. Just my personal opinion.

Overall I enjoy young MR cabs as they are very approachable and older Coonawarra cabs.

Carl

Thanks everyone for your input, you are generally confirming what I was feeling. I think my slight preference for fuller bodied MR cabs leans me more toward Moss Wood and Woodlands, especially their Margaret and 'family named' higher end cabernets. Not that Cullen is a faulty wine, far far from it, perhaps just not for me.

Clearly, it is a matter of personal preference.
Cullen does not excite me, never has, but I kept on buying them for ages and ages based on reputation. However, there are many people I know with extremely good palates who love the wines, so I think it would be fair to suggest that it is a somewhat polarising Cabernet.
On the other hand, I think Moss Wood consistently makes a superb red, and an excellent chardonnay too, for that matter.
Some of the Moss Woods from the 90's are absolutely of World-class quality, and rival classified Growths from Bordeaux in some vintages, like 95-96.

As I have said before, I still have a stack of 90's Cullens sitting in my cellar, usually I drag one out every few years or so in the hope that they are getting better. (to date, this has been a forlorn hope)
I purchased Cullens and Moss Wood in equal amounts in the 80-90's, and the proof of my preference is the fact that there are precious, very precious, few Moss Woods from that era left in the cellar... oh, if I could only swap them for MW's of the same vintage!!!!!

Like others, I really wanted to like the wines, but what I tasted didn't match up to the critics' *impressions. True they may not be as 'big' as some in the region / Australia, but IMO neither are they wines that I see as scratching the Bordeaux itch. They used to be priced a little higher than what I'd see as value, and that gap has grown so much I'm not a buyer.

Generally good wines, but I find greater excitement and value elsewhere. I'd like to try the Chardonnay again though.

* In particular I read of very structured / 'wall of tannin' wines, yet which had great elegance. My experience has been of plusher wines, ok in their own way, but not what I'd expected given the tasting notes from the critics.

DJ1980 wrote:I am of the opposite end of the scale, I have found Moss Wood Cabernet to be over extracted or over oaked. The last vintage I enjoyed was the 2005.

I have not had a Moss Wood for quite a number of years but do not recall it being over extracted at all. It was a 1997 with a lovely nose and excellent balance - it was a Bordeaux look-alike. Perhaps the style has changed.

Mahmoud.

Mahmoud Ali wrote:

DJ1980 wrote:I am of the opposite end of the scale, I have found Moss Wood Cabernet to be over extracted or over oaked. The last vintage I enjoyed was the 2005.

I have not had a Moss Wood for quite a number of years but do not recall it being over extracted at all. It was a 1997 with a lovely nose and excellent balance - it was a Bordeaux look-alike. Perhaps the style has changed.

Mahmoud.

Yeah, it might be a more modern style thing. The last few vintages have been more oak driven and unbalanced for me.