The Auswine Forum

As a primarily Aussie / NZ wine drinker, what are some suggestions for a good intro to the classic Old World varietals/regions?

I know bottle budget is important and happy to drop $50 if it is a food example to learn from. I have found $20-30 bottles from France and Italy are often disspointing, but happy to be proven wrong!

Some of these push the $50 a bit, others can be found well below it.

Nebbiolo
Massolino Langhe Nebbiolo
Cigliuti Langhe Nebbiolo
Benevelli Langhe Nebbiolo
Giovanni Rosso Langhe Nebbiolo
Produttori del Barbaresco Barbaresco

Nerello Mascalese
Passopisciaro Passorosso
SRC Rivaggi
Lamoresca Mascalisi

Gamay
Dominique Piron Fleurie

Riesling
Dönnhoff Oberhäuser Leistenberg Riesling Kabinett

I'm typically not a big Sang/Chianti man but the Parri Chianti Riserva Montespertoli DOCG 2015 for a cheap is outstanding (and decidedly cheap).

In general...

Bordeaux is a bit of a non-event at the sub-$50 price point, as far as I can tell. Not had much luck, with the exception of a few nice Sauternes halves

Burgundy I can't really comment - you might find a few Bourgogne Rouge & Blanc, but not sure you'll get much of a sense of the region for much less than $100

Beaujolais - You can actually do quite well here, if you can find the wines - I've found some lovely Moulin a Vent, Morgon & Fleurie wines in the last few weeks, at Cru level, all well within your price range.

Rhone I had an absolutely storming Cotes du Rhone Chateau de Segreies last night. You can also find some nice examples of the lesser sub-regions (Gigondas, St Peray, Lirac, Vacqueyras) at the sort of price point you're looking at. Nothern Rhone will be trickier, but you should start to get a sense for the region

Piedmont won't give you much worth drinking by way of Barolo or Barbaresco, but there are some good Nebbiolos, Barberas, Dolcettos & Arneis available at that price point

Tuscany is a great region to start from - I find the Chiantis here at around the $30-35 price point are actually pretty good (though I've had a few shockers). Branch out from the Classico region too.

In terms of 'classic' regions, I'll let others comment on Spain, Portugal, Germany and the other Italian / French regions (Alsace anyone?). I'm less familiar with what's really available here from those countries.

But the real trick is finding the right place to buy your wines. If you find a decent shop, tell them what you're trying to do, and they should help guide you through their range.

just to be clear, Nick, a $20-30 wine from France will likely sell for between 3-5 euros ex-cellar. That is no surprise if disappointing!!

in good years, think 2015 for the present, Bordeaux offers outstanding value, and even in Australia, superb values can be had for around $50.
Look for stuff from the Medoc, Haut Medoc, Lalande de Pomerol and even St Emilion.
2009 minor Bordeaux are now screamingly good, and they were usually between $40-60 at release in 2012. Wines like 2009 La Fleur de Bouard, Clos des Menuts and the like, absolutely trounce cabs and merlots from ANZ, many of which cost 2-3 times the price.

Bourgogne Rouge from 2015 are often delightful, many will only set you back $50ish. Well worth a look.
Bourgogne Blanc from 2016 can be exceptional, but you might need to pay a little more for the better examples.

Burgundy in particular can be a mine-field, so only buy stuff you know should be good. The real minor producers that are off every critics radar are usually off the radar for a good reason, they are not much chop!!! There are, of course, exceptions, but if you are new, stick to the stuff the critics recommend.

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Some great suggestions here. In terms of value, it's also worth looking at Spanish wines. They aren't as popular as French or Italian wines, so the prices are lower.

However, you may find that you don't actually enjoy Old World wines at this stage in your wine journey. I certainly didn't like them at the beginning.

Now I'm going to generalise here and there are exceptions. Nevertheless...

• Old World wines tend to taste lighter and less fruity, have lower ABV, have higher acidity. Often more herbal, earthy and minerally.
• New World wines tend to taste riper and more fruity, have higher ABV, have lower acidity. Often more highly extracted and oaky.

You may find that it takes your palate a while to adjust to the the Old World style. It certainly did for me.

And finally a word of warning. If your palate evolves to enjoying Old World wines, you may find that you no longer like your Australian/NZ wines as much. Don't cellar too much Aussie/NZ stuff at this point in your journey, just in case your taste preferences change.

As Ozzie eluded. (Disclaimer:Everyone knows I'm a Rioja fan). The stuff from Rioja has potential to age for a long time and is very affordable. Go to uncle Dans and grab a bottle of Marques de Murrieta Reserve-whatever vintage. a bees whisker over $30 and very hard to find anything from the region that delivers better bang for buck I recon. Very approachable now.

felixp21 wrote:
2009 minor Bordeaux are now screamingly good, and they were usually between $40-60 at release in 2012. Wines like 2009 La Fleur de Bouard, Clos des Menuts and the like, absolutely trounce cabs and merlots from ANZ, many of which cost 2-3 times the price.

The best price I can see here in France for the 2009 La Fleur de Bouard is €40, I can't imagine it is less than $50 in Oz... (from wine-searcher)
Neither shows as available in Oz.

So not sure it helps the OP, but thanks for the tip, maybe I will pick up a half dozen

Does our host Gavin perhaps have a few old world wines he could put together into a mixed 6 pack? I think he skews more to Italy and Spain than France, but I think those are better places to start in a way.

rens wrote:As Ozzie eluded. (Disclaimer:Everyone knows I'm a Rioja fan). The stuff from Rioja has potential to age for a long time and is very affordable. Go to uncle Dans and grab a bottle of Marques de Murrieta Reserve-whatever vintage. a bees whisker over $30 and very hard to find anything from the region that delivers better bang for buck I recon. Very approachable now.

Agreed. Murrieta is a great producer.

With regard to Rioja producers, in January this year I opened a bottle of 1981 Monte Real Reserva (please note, a reserva, not a gran reserva) and it was superb, a possible candidate for wine of the year.

Nick, as you say, budget is important. Why not take advantage of some of the lesser appreciated Old World classics, because the advantage with them is reduced price. Although I have to say that some of the traditionally lesser values regions have really got a rep these days, so it very much depends on the producer. I'd also add that many of the European wines imported into Australia are skewed towards an "Aussie wine" palate.

Here are some suggestions of the top of my head, and in no particular order. All of these can be found under $50, and some retail for around $25. They might not all blow you away, but they will certainly give you a genuine European wine experience.

In Italy, head away from Piedmont and Tuscany, to Veneto for example - Valpolicella from Allegrini... Soave from Peiropan. Whilst Sicily has a cult status now, some good wines are still reasonably priced: try Occhipinti (the SP68 cuvee) or Cos (Cerasuolo di Vittoria Classico).

If you like a richer white, maybe an Alsatian Gewurztraminer (Cave de Beblenheim, Hugel). Or a lighter red like, yes, a Beaujolais - in a traditional style (Domaine Chignard's Fleurie Les Moriers).

Or a variety whose New World equivalents simply can't compete in quality against their European counterparts: Cabernet Franc from the Loire Valley in France (Bernard Baudry, Yannick Amirault), or a Chenin Blanc (Francois Chidaine).

Or just a style that's rarer in Australia - like a dry southern French rose from Domaine du Gros Nore or Petit Rimauresq.

Or a familiar variety, but not as you know it (any of Michel Gahier's Chardonnays from the Jura region in France), an off-dry Riesling from Germany (Dr Loosen, Donnhoff)...

Or a variety you perhaps haven't before - e.g., Greek indigenous reds (Kir Yianni's Ramnista Xinomavro or Gaia Estate's Agiorgitiko).

Or a whole type of wine that's amazingly interesting, yet incredibly unpopular: Sherry (Lustau)!

I do agree with others that the Marques de Murrieta Rioja (Reserva Finca Ygay) can be a decent option too!

Hi Nick, lots of good advice here. Like others I think you are basically wasting your time in Burgundy, Bordeaux and Barolo at under $50. At best you can get a cheap entry low end wine. Also to find anything half way decent in these regions for that price, you really need to know your producers and vintages well.

I would not follow Felix's advice on basic Bourgogne rouge wins in this price bracket. In Australia these will be way more expensive than they should be and they are the basic entry level wines. With some care, in Aust & NZ for $50 you can buy hand made wines made by passionate small wine makers - not a proper comparison if you ask me

Better to go to tastings hosted by wine shops that have a decent range of imported stuff, I am sure you can find options. Rioja and Chianti are good options and some Beaujolais villages cru wines.

There is no rush really, like many of us here, these wines found us rather than we found them. I did no go looking for old world wines, they just started showing up as a function of where I lived and who I socialized with and drank wines with.

cheers Brodie

sjw_11 wrote:

felixp21 wrote:
2009 minor Bordeaux are now screamingly good, and they were usually between $40-60 at release in 2012. Wines like 2009 La Fleur de Bouard, Clos des Menuts and the like, absolutely trounce cabs and merlots from ANZ, many of which cost 2-3 times the price.

The best price I can see here in France for the 2009 La Fleur de Bouard is €40, I can't imagine it is less than $50 in Oz... (from wine-searcher)
Neither shows as available in Oz.

So not sure it helps the OP, but thanks for the tip, maybe I will pick up a half dozen

sorry, I was talking about what it was released for in Aus., about 2012. No idea what the price is now.
my point is that there should be plenty of excellent 2015's available down there around the $50 mark, following on from the success of 09.