The Auswine Forum

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Interesting. By coincidence, I got Vintage Cellars' brochure on the Penfolds Collection in the post today, and I was surprised by many of the red wine descriptors. Grange, for example, displays "umami expressed primarily via wafts of shiitake mushroom stock, hoisin and XO sauce", while the 389 say the dark berry fruits are "courted by elements of ponzu, soy, sesame, and dried shiitake mushroom".

Should we be speculating on the primary target market for these wines, or where Mr Gago spends most of his time these days?

Sean wrote:An early “review” of the 2018 Penfolds Collection release from Frank Wilden.

[url]https://www.businessinsider.com.au/penfolds- ... 14-2018-10[/url]

Is the Bin 169 Coonawarra Cab Sav a regular release? Is it being positioned as a rival to Wynns JR or a second wine to the 707

From the numerous reports I’ve read today, the Bin 169 seems to be pick of the 16s release.

Waiters Friend wrote:Interesting. By coincidence, I got Vintage Cellars' brochure on the Penfolds Collection in the post today, and I was surprised by many of the red wine descriptors. Grange, for example, displays "umami expressed primarily via wafts of shiitake mushroom stock, hoisin and XO sauce", while the 389 say the dark berry fruits are "courted by elements of ponzu, soy, sesame, and dried shiitake mushroom".

Should we be speculating on the primary target market for these wines, or where Mr Gago spends most of his time these days?

m

It’s no secret the 707 is destined for China, Treasury openly say it. C’mon, if you had the chance where’d you be targeting your luxury Wines in the current market?

Philip White's review at InDaily (he's yet to post them to his drinkster blog):

https://indaily.com.au/eat-drink-explore/win ... -penfolds/

What can one say, at least Whitey is honest enough to admit poor VFM...unlike other scribes in the room sitting in silence bowing at the feet of the master.
The diatribe that was in the local paper here yesterday is enough to make me reach ( pardon the pun) for the emesis bowl
Cheers Craig

phillisc wrote:What can one say, at least Whitey is honest enough to admit poor VFM...unlike other scribes in the room sitting in silence bowing at the feet of the master.
The diatribe that was in the local paper here yesterday is enough to make me reach ( pardon the pun) for the emesis bowl
Cheers Craig

quoted today:

Some people are a bit sniffy about the fact that the new Grange is up $50 from last year’s retail setting.

Others in the release collection have risen just $5, while the biggest price hike is $100 extra for a bottle of the new Penfolds 2016 Bin 707 Cabernet Sauvignon, up to $600.

It’s a moot point, says Penfolds chief winemaker Peter Gago.

“You can’t deny that there will be price rises,” Mr Gago told Adelaide Now wine writer Tony Love.

“It’s the way of the world with how these wines benchmark globally and with the supply and demand.

“The prices reflect the globalisation of the wine market at that end of the market.”

International demand for Penfolds products continues unabated, Mr Gago said, and the company simply can’t supply enough of its top-end wines like Grange, and Bins 707, 407 and 389.

Penfolds obviously have no interest in the Australian market except at the swill end, so I reciprocate.
Someone once described Penfolds as Australia's only luxury brand by world standards - which may well be right.
Flogging it all off in China may not be the best long-term view, but then as a listed company they're not interested in that.
I might be more upset if I thought the last decade's worth of wines (on the few instances I've tasted them) were actually much good.
regards,
Graeme

$100 for a 407 ? What moron would. Honestly!
I wouldn't even consider it at half that price

Craig(NZ) wrote:$100 for a 407 ? What moron would. Honestly!
I wouldn't even consider it at half that price

I've said it before...128 most disappointing Shiraz to come from a single region in Australia...worst in its class in coonawarra...6 times the price of Wynn's white label...wtf!!!!
Craig as for 407... The most lost wine in the whole portfolio being 4 times a Black Label...morons indeed.
Cheers
Craig

GraemeG wrote:Penfolds obviously have no interest in the Australian market except at the swill end, so I reciprocate.
Someone once described Penfolds as Australia's only luxury brand by world standards - which may well be right.
Flogging it all off in China may not be the best long-term view, but then as a listed company they're not interested in that.
I might be more upset if I thought the last decade's worth of wines (on the few instances I've tasted them) were actually much good.
regards,
Graeme

I had a bottle of 2010 389 out of the cellar and whilst it is still young with a decent four hour decant it showed bloody good potential. I know talking to Gavin recently he thought the fruit was too sweet for his palate but personally I don’t mind it. Horses for courses I suppose.

Mark

Matt@5453 wrote:

phillisc wrote:
“The prices reflect the globalisation of the wine market at that end of the market.”

International demand for Penfolds products continues unabated, Mr Gago said, and the company simply can’t supply enough of its top-end wines like Grange, and Bins 707, 407 and 389.[/i]

They are all sitting in New Zealand supermarkets, faded labels, gathering dust

I checked four fine wine store websites here in Edmonton and three had no Penfold's wines listed. The fourth had two listings, a magnum of 2004 Grange and half-bottles of Koonunga Hill chardonnay. Seems to me the wine cognescenti here are giving a wide berth to Penfold's. Come to think of it I do not recall anybody serving me a Penfold's wine, neither a current vintage or one they had cellared. The one exception was an Australian importer who had bought at auction a 1982 Bin 820 and brought it to Edmonton.

Mahmoud.

At the current fantasy prices, I'm more likely to buy a Benfolds

So why are previous vintages with good provenance selling in the secondary markets at a substantial discount to current RRP? Like early/mid 1990s Grange from good vintages at around $400-$500. Someone else has done the aging for you. Go figure. If I was to be buying Pennies (which i'm not) I know where my money would go. Or am I missing something?

Carl

Target Market = Dum F&^ks.
Status = Market cornered
Comment = Well done Penfolds

Craig(NZ) wrote:Target Market = Dum F&^ks.
Status = Market cornered
Comment = Well done Penfolds

Roger that.

Chuck wrote:So why are previous vintages with good provenance selling in the secondary markets at a substantial discount to current RRP? Like early/mid 1990s Grange from good vintages at around $400-$500. Someone else has done the aging for you. Go figure. If I was to be buying Pennies (which i'm not) I know where my money would go. Or am I missing something?

Carl

At $400 a bottle, a 1990 Grange (100 points Wine Spectator if I remember rightly) sourced at auction today is still three times the original asking price in 1995 ($130). Again, if memory serves, this was the first Grange to exceed $100 a bottle on release. There's been a 700% increase in the asking price between the 1990 and 2014. If you had invested your $130 for 24 years, with compound interest at 5%, you would now have $420, or about 325% increase.

In the meantime, it's time to drink the Granges I sourced in the 1990s - 1985-1990 vintages. I probably won't live long enough for the current vintages to have matured sufficiently.

In the spring 1995, when I was in Perth, a local liquor store was taking orders for the 1990 Grange. Asking price: A$99 for a six-pack!!

Mahmoud.

PS: It would have been a store in the suburb of Mirrabooka.

Waiters Friend wrote:

Chuck wrote:So why are previous vintages with good provenance selling in the secondary markets at a substantial discount to current RRP? Like early/mid 1990s Grange from good vintages at around $400-$500. Someone else has done the aging for you. Go figure. If I was to be buying Pennies (which i'm not) I know where my money would go. Or am I missing something?

Carl

At $400 a bottle, a 1990 Grange (100 points Wine Spectator if I remember rightly) sourced at auction today is still three times the original asking price in 1995 ($130). Again, if memory serves, this was the first Grange to exceed $100 a bottle on release. There's been a 700% increase in the asking price between the 1990 and 2014. If you had invested your $130 for 24 years, with compound interest at 5%, you would now have $420, or about 325% increase.

In the meantime, it's time to drink the Granges I sourced in the 1990s - 1985-1990 vintages. I probably won't live long enough for the current vintages to have matured sufficiently.

Roger that. I bought 7 of the 90 Granges for around $120 and 3 of the 90A and 1 of the 920 for around the same price. Sold 6 of the grange for $300 a couple of years later to fund my habit with kids in tow and wife not working. The 920 was nice. One of the 90As was sensational. Left with just 3 bottles and in no hurry to drink just yet.

Last Pennies acquisition was a gifted 05 St Henri from a Qantas flight attendant as an apology for spilling some coffee on me. I thanked here and suggested she spill some more coffee on me.

Carl

I think most of us have moved on from Penfolds.
Plenty of other, more interesting stuff available for less money.
Send it all to Asia, no probs.

Brucer wrote:I think most of us have moved on from Penfolds.
Plenty of other, more interesting stuff available for less money.
Send it all to Asia, no probs.

Will Penfolds eventually go the way of Fosters?

Two different entities now. No idea regarding Fosters. I am seeing Penfolds going the way that Bordeaux did. Becomes a commodity.
Wish I was a shareholder of TWE in the last couple of years.

I am actually drinking a 2010 389 now, and its pretty damn good.

I like their 389 and St Henri. So it's a shame I can not justify or afford them anymore. But there is a lot of interesting wine out there. So budget can be spent on other things I guess

I lost interest in purchasing Penfolds more than a decade ago. The wines are way over-priced and do not reflect terroir. There is far better value in the market.

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I have just got the Rockford mailer, it is Grosset Spring release, just had Marius as well and I guess Tyrrell's red wines will be out next month... That will do it for me for Oz wines for 2H 2018.

1H 2019 will be Grosset Gaia, Tyrrell's whites and then again Wendouree whenever that is.

That's plenty for me given I only come back to Oz once a year (and my cellar is disturbingly getting full again), but like to keep a few parts of the collection going. What would I drop from that to buy anything Penfolds??

If anything I should add something Victorian or from WA ...

Sean and Sam great observations

Wynns White label $10...the new 128...has always smashed it!
Noon Reserve Shiraz $29...the new 28
Wolf Blass Grey Label $27...the new 389
Seppelts St Peters $58...the new St Henri, Magill or RWT
John Riddoch $104...the new 169 or 707
Standish The Standish $95 the new Grange


cheers
Craig

Penfolds prices have, on average, risen around 10% year-on-year, for the last 20 years.
The 96 Bin 389 was widely available for $20. If the 2016 is $85, that's 7.5% compounding over 20 vintages.
I bought the 93 Bin 707 for $54. With the 2016 at $99, that's 11% every year.
89 Grange was available for $90. With the 2014 @ $758 that's 9%, every year.
BIn 28 is relatively a bargain, being only 5%pa between the 1993 @$12 and the 2016 @ $38. But then it didn't have Bin 150, RWT stealing it's fruit back then, only Grange/389/Henri. And the quality drop has been obvious.
A bit of the same applies to St Henri too, with only a 5%pa rise (96 @ $36, 15 @$95) but again RWT fights for the fruit, and goodness knows what is happening to the volumes produced.

They're not the only ones - Henschke has done similar things with pricing - but I won't play that game, sorry.
Graeme