The Auswine Forum

Winemaker Penfolds will make wine outside Australia for the first time in California's Napa Valley, and appeal to Chinese consumers with a baiju-infused drop.

Winemaker Penfolds is poised to produce wine overseas for the first time, turning out bottles of shiraz and cabernet sauvignon in California's famous Napa Valley.

Penfolds, part of the Treasury Wine Estates stable, will also craft champagne in France and introduce a fortified wine infused with the Chinese spirit, baiju, as the famous Australian brand adds some international character to its lineup.

Treasury Wine Estates deputy chief marketing officer Angus Lilley said Penfolds winemakers will craft wines consistent with the label's characteristics and flavour profile using the company's existing facilities in the Napa Valley, beginning from the California 2018 harvest later this year.

The company is aiming to release the Napa Valley wines by financial year 2022.

"It obviously signals an intent for us to support Penfolds and to invest in Penfolds moving forward," Mr Lilley said.

"This is the first foray into potentially looking at other regions."

The plan to produce a premium wine in the United States comes five years after Treasury had to destroy product when exports of low-end brands failed to win over U.S. wine drinkers.

In September, Penfolds will release a more exotic creation: a fortified wine made from Barossa shiraz and infused with the Chinese alcoholic spirt baijiu - one of the most widely drunk liquors in the world.

"We are really excited to see how consumers throughout the world and in China respond," Mr Lilley said of the baiju creation.
Work is also under way in Champagne, with the French bubbles expected to be released next year in time for the brand's 175th anniversary, as part of a new range called Penfolds Special Bottlings.

Penfolds on Tuesday also added a 28-year-old single batch brandy to its range.

source: [url]https://www.news.com.au/finance/business/bre ... 61c3cf67fa[/url]

Seems risky... just buy some premium SA cab and Shiraz vineyards and churn out more Grange and 707 instead

They are smart cookies, but Penfolds is an producer of Australian red wine Icons and I can’t for the of life of me see why I would want to even try a Penfolds Champers. No history, no sense of place, no experience.

This is ridiculous, but I am sure they will make plenty of money from this move. I won't be rushing out to buy Penfolds international gear. Come to think of it, I won't be buying any Penfolds wine any time soon. #noterrior#serialblenders

I dunno..I think it is smart of them...Just a way to add another label with hopefully a similar formula that sells into the Chinese market...

Don't plan on buying any of it myself...but in their shoes it probably isn't a bad bet..might not work out..but if it does it'll pay off nicely...

Hopefully Penfold's will do the right thing and give Australian buyers a break and offer them the Napa wines at a lower price than US buyers.

Mahmoud.

Very funny Mahmoud!

Brand extension, but the sort of thing that 5 years down the line often results in closures as the company 'focuses on its core strengths'. I'd be surprised if anyone here ends up buying any of it.

Ian S wrote:Brand extension, but the sort of thing that 5 years down the line often results in closures as the company 'focuses on its core strengths'. I'd be surprised if anyone here ends up buying any of it.

Ditto. Seen it all before in a range o findustries. Will take some time to fail though if first wine is 2022,

Polymer wrote:I dunno..I think it is smart of them...Just a way to add another label with hopefully a similar formula that sells into the Chinese market...

Don't plan on buying any of it myself...but in their shoes it probably isn't a bad bet..might not work out..but if it does it'll pay off nicely...

Agree with this....they do have the luxury brand profile over there, just need to look at the amount of fake/copies of their wines in the market to verify their status which also seems to suggest that branding is king over quality.

Is likewise of no interest to me, have not bought a Penfolds in years.

Wizz wrote:

Ian S wrote:Brand extension, but the sort of thing that 5 years down the line often results in closures as the company 'focuses on its core strengths'. I'd be surprised if anyone here ends up buying any of it.

Ditto. Seen it all before in a range o findustries. Will take some time to fail though if first wine is 2022,

In that time the executives will have got lots of bonuses, etc., and will have move onto some other 'strategy' or even another business.

Mike Hawkins wrote:Seems risky... just buy some premium SA cab and Shiraz vineyards and churn out more Grange and 707 instead

I guess there is only so much of a market for those products. It gives their customers a chance to try something completely different without having to find a new brand. Not my cup of tea, but that's business!

swirler wrote:

Mike Hawkins wrote:Seems risky... just buy some premium SA cab and Shiraz vineyards and churn out more Grange and 707 instead

I guess there is only so much of a market for those products. It gives their customers a chance to try something completely different without having to find a new brand. Not my cup of tea, but that's business!

But they don’t last long on shelves, so someone is buying them!

Demand management? I don't know. Maybe they should be doing what you say. Maybe the two strategies are not mutually exclusive. I'm just guessing!

I can’t wait to see how this pans out. Penfolds should move into Bordeaux as well, as a lot of the wines are produced on a large scale. Chateau Lafite-Penfolds B3 anyone?

Mike Hawkins wrote:

swirler wrote:

Mike Hawkins wrote:Seems risky... just buy some premium SA cab and Shiraz vineyards and churn out more Grange and 707 instead

I guess there is only so much of a market for those products. It gives their customers a chance to try something completely different without having to find a new brand. Not my cup of tea, but that's business!

But they don’t last long on shelves, so someone is buying them!

Really? They're quite easily available...Grange more so than 707...

Most of the countries I've been to have Grange..and a good amount of it, without looking hard. 707 less so...

I'm actually curious as to what they can do with better Cab fruit from the Napa...

What will they come up with next?

Coming soon from Penfolds -- Grange Kalimotxo in 375ml cans. You heard it here first at Auswine.

Maison de Grand Espirit, Lindemans from multiple sources, various joint ventures in the 90's and 00's. I think it shows a lack of corporate memory. Happy to take bets that it will wimper out, and that in five years time it will be a footnote on an annual report. Making too much money now I suspect.

It very well may do poorly...

But given their success with 707 in China, going to Napa and trying to build a similar style of wine (which would be easier there than in Europe...and also just acquiring the assets as well) isn't a bad bet.

Might not work out..might work out....If you're under pressure to make a move, I think it at least makes sense. Penfolds trying to make a French wine...doesn't make sense..

Not getting any for my cellar, but I guess I'm not their target market.

Polymer wrote:

Mike Hawkins wrote:

swirler wrote:
I guess there is only so much of a market for those products. It gives their customers a chance to try something completely different without having to find a new brand. Not my cup of tea, but that's business!

But they don’t last long on shelves, so someone is buying them!

Really? They're quite easily available...Grange more so than 707...

Most of the countries I've been to have Grange..and a good amount of it, without looking hard. 707 less so...

I'm actually curious as to what they can do with better Cab fruit from the Napa...

Very few stores still have the current Grange release at the time of the next one. And I’m guessing, based on what I hear from industry types, that they could sell twice as much in China if they had it

From another site - suggested names for the new line
Neo-Grange?

Silver Grange?

Grangemus?

Penfoldspus?

Sine Qua Grange?

MacDonfold?

They’ll come up with something.

"The fruit, including [Napa Valley] Cabernet Sauvignon, will come from a variety of vineyards in the Napa Valley and California, including Camatta Hills on the Central Coast."

Looks looks a variant of 707, or Grange Cabernet being created

crusty2 wrote:
Neo-Grange?

Ah, like New Coke.... and we all know how well that turned out...

Mike Hawkins wrote: Very few stores still have the current Grange release at the time of the next one. And I’m guessing, based on what I hear from industry types, that they could sell twice as much in China if they had it

Really? I see it everywhere..multiple vintages...

Granted, the pricing has firmed up on Grange, probably because supply has decreased a bit elsewhere because of the demand in China...

But there is a lot out there...

Polymer wrote:

Mike Hawkins wrote: Very few stores still have the current Grange release at the time of the next one. And I’m guessing, based on what I hear from industry types, that they could sell twice as much in China if they had it

Really? I see it everywhere..multiple vintages...

Granted, the pricing has firmed up on Grange, probably because supply has decreased a bit elsewhere because of the demand in China...

But there is a lot out there...

Remember, Australia’s not the only place it’s sold. My wine brokers in the Uk move their full allocation within 2 weeks. I’m sure they would take more. Many of the (limited) fine wine stores in the US that stock it presell to numerous repeat buyers.

If you use winesearcher pro, check how many places globally stock it in Oct vs Feb the following year. I’m convinced they could jack volumes up 20% and they wouldn’t need to reduce price.

At any rate, commonsense dictates that a retailer wouldn’t keep taking on new vintages if stock wasn’t moving. They’d have firesale and no longer stock it. How often do you see Grange on sale? Pretty much never.... at least not a real reduction. One large Oz retailer’s ‘sale price’ is basically the release price, but just a few months later

Mike Hawkins wrote:

Polymer wrote:

Mike Hawkins wrote: Very few stores still have the current Grange release at the time of the next one. And I’m guessing, based on what I hear from industry types, that they could sell twice as much in China if they had it

Really? I see it everywhere..multiple vintages...

Granted, the pricing has firmed up on Grange, probably because supply has decreased a bit elsewhere because of the demand in China...

But there is a lot out there...

Remember, Australia’s not the only place it’s sold. My wine brokers in the Uk move their full allocation within 2 weeks. I’m sure they would take more. Many of the (limited) fine wine stores in the US that stock it presell to numerous repeat buyers.

If you use winesearcher pro, check how many places globally stock it in Oct vs Feb the following year. I’m convinced they could jack volumes up 20% and they wouldn’t need to reduce price.

At any rate, commonsense dictates that a retailer wouldn’t keep taking on new vintages if stock wasn’t moving. They’d have firesale and no longer stock it. How often do you see Grange on sale? Pretty much never.... at least not a real reduction. One large Oz retailer’s ‘sale price’ is basically the release price, but just a few months later

Mike, I'm not comparing it in Australia..I see it all over Europe...all over the US.

You can easily find back vintages without any problems at all...

Granted, I think the global price for Grange has actually increased on the secondary market so there is definitely more demand or at least, demand from other locations has pushed some of the supply out of certain areas....

But it is dead easy to source..in many different countries...

Grange on sale? Recently I think prices have held better but it never seemed to ever be offered for close to full retail...although to be fair, I haven't exactly watched it closely for the last few vintages...

As far as whether they sell through...Is that true for Grange? I've seen very little stores have many vintages that I'm sure were not sourced aftermarket so I'd say they didn't sell through..but when you have a wine that can age for 50+ years...at some point it'll sell..maybe even for an extra premium because it has age...but these small stores don't end up with an almost unbroken 10+ year vertical for sale having sold through...

Well, it happened, one of Treasury's new international wines has made an appearance here in Canada.
It is the one on the left, the NV Brut Champagne. Not sure how this made it here but it was being flogged for C$26.99 and, apparently because of limited quantities, it was restricted to only three per customer during a one hour period. At that price resistance was futile so I jumped in with an order.

Looking at the three here I can't help wonder which winery/producer made them.

Cheers ............................ Mahmoud

I had a bottle of that champagne on the weekend. Ok. A touch on the sweet side but decent enough. Marginally preferred the Mumm NV I tried after it.

Wayno wrote:I had a bottle of that champagne on the weekend. Ok. A touch on the sweet side but decent enough. Marginally preferred the Mumm NV I tried after it.

So, a relatively high dosage and not as good as Mumm's. That doesn't sound like a recipe for success if you ask me.

Is the brand widely available in Adelaide?

Mahmoud.

I gather it’s being rolled out here but not sure. It’s probably well worth what you paid for it.