The Auswine Forum

I am very young looking, straw coloured more than yellow. I have a light perfume of lime blossom on the nose and a dry, almost inexpressive palate of lime and slate with mid-level acidity. Despite being a twelve year-old, I am still an adolescent and show no signs of puberty let alone maturity. My owner wonders if it might have been a mistake for me to have been "raised" by a screwcap and thinks that a cork might have given me more manners. Apparently I was named after an icon vineyard.

The back label says it has "all the qualities of an classic Australian Riesling and will reward careful cellaring for up to 20 years." Who is this fellow?

Mahmoud.

Steingarten Riesling?

Ozzie W wrote:Steingarten Riesling?

Damn you're good! What gave it away, the back label quote?

Mahmoud.

It was a combination of your clues combined together:
* 20 years ageability by the producer. They tend to be rather conservative, but gives an indication of drinking window.
* Icon Vineyard - limits the options.
* Under screwcap for 2006 - again, further limits the options.
* Comparison of your tasting notes with those on The Wine Front for 2006 Rieslings which meet the above criteria.

P.S. This was a lot of fun, reminds me of the "Who am I" questions from "Sale of the Century". Who remembers that show? We should do this more often on this forum!

well i googled the back label description and steingarten popped up a couple of times.

If it’s the 2006 vintage I was a bit disappointed with it. By way of contrast I has the 2005 Grosset Springvale and it’s just started to show so depth and secondary development.

Yes, it's the 2006 vintage. Also by way of contrast, and similarly with a Grosset, the 2007 Polish Hill about six months ago had more intensity and depth and was also showing secondary development.

Steingarten2006a.jpg

As good as Steingarten is, I would choose Florita over it in most vintages. A real ‘icon vineyard’ in every respect

Mike Hawkins wrote:As good as Steingarten is, I would choose Florita over it in most vintages. A real ‘icon vineyard’ in every respect

Agreed, as the Steingarten is no longer a single vineyard wine. When I visited the Clare Valley I heard about the Florita vineyard and tried to visit but it was closed/sold out so I never got to taste one. Somehow I seem to recall that it was then called Clos Clare. Having recently tasted a couple of Grosset 'Polish Hill', also a single vineyard wine, I would choose it over the Steingarten.

Mahmoud.

Mahmoud Ali wrote:

Mike Hawkins wrote:As good as Steingarten is, I would choose Florita over it in most vintages. A real ‘icon vineyard’ in every respect

Agreed, as the Steingarten is no longer a single vineyard wine. When I visited the Clare Valley I heard about the Florita vineyard and tried to visit but it was closed/sold out so I never got to taste one. Somehow I seem to recall that it was then called Clos Clare. Having recently tasted a couple of Grosset 'Polish Hill', also a single vineyard wine, I would choose it over the Steingarten.

Mahmoud.

I would chose either of the Grosset rieslings being the Polish Hill or the Springvale any day of the week over the Steingarten. Most years I add the Springvale to the cellar by the case along with a few Polish Hill. Can you get the Grossets in Canada?

rooman wrote:Can you get the Grossets in Canada?

Yes, but depends on where you live. The most recent release in Quebec is the 2012 Polish Hill, at $50 CDN per bottle. Availability, vintage and pricing is probably different for Mahmoud's province.

Bytown Rick wrote:

rooman wrote:Can you get the Grossets in Canada?

Yes, but depends on where you live. The most recent release in Quebec is the 2012 Polish Hill, at $50 CDN per bottle. Availability, vintage and pricing is probably different for Mahmoud's province.

In Calgary we can get all the Grosset rieslings, including the Alea at 35 CDN or less. And the Gaia as well! In Quebec, it depends where you look. Sometime ago I picked up some '08 d'Arenberg Dead Arm for $45 each after tax in a small town far from Montreal. Not too many Quebecers would grap an Aussie wine in a wine store. So there many left for sale!

Bytown Rick wrote:

rooman wrote:Can you get the Grossets in Canada?

Yes, but depends on where you live. The most recent release in Quebec is the 2012 Polish Hill, at $50 CDN per bottle. Availability, vintage and pricing is probably different for Mahmoud's province.

Great vintage and well worth picking up but it will need at least a decade to repay its price tag.

I was very impressed with the 06 Steingarten a week ago, but I also felt it was nowhere ready to drink. Conversely, the 2000 Grosset PH (screwcapped) was thoroughly over-the hill, as it has been for some time, in my view. I reckon this peaked by the time it was five.
Also, my instinctive response to the OP was steingarten, and that was before I read the giveaway clue about the icon vineyard!
cheers,
Graeme

Polish Hill is a very atypical CV wine IME. I've heard very mixed views on its ageing potential.

I love reading Graeme's TNs, but he's very severe with his estimated cellaring potential of wines! Very few get his 'should go the distance' stamp!

GraemeG wrote:I was very impressed with the 06 Steingarten a week ago, but I also felt it was nowhere ready to drink. Conversely, the 2000 Grosset PH (screwcapped) was thoroughly over-the hill, as it has been for some time, in my view. I reckon this peaked by the time it was five.
Also, my instinctive response to the OP was steingarten, and that was before I read the giveaway clue about the icon vineyard!
cheers,
Graeme

I’ve never tired one of the 2000 but the other PH I’ve tried generally seemed to need a min of 10 years. The most recent PH I’ve opened from the cellar was the 09 but it was way too young. Strong acid, almost pale green hue and virtually no development.

I did try the 17 at a recent tasting and it does have superb potential but like most rieslings I except it will shut down for a decade at least. It is also why I have a preference for the Springvale

Yep, agree with Graeme on the 2000 PH. Opened one a few months ago and it was disappointing.

The Tasting Australia Riesling tasting was fun though. The aged bracket had 2006 Grossett Watervale, 2007 Jim Barry Florita, 2013 Peter Lehmann Wigan and 2002 Orlando Steingarten. For me, the Orlando was the stand out. Beautiful.

-- George Krashos

rooman wrote:

GraemeG wrote:I was very impressed with the 06 Steingarten a week ago, but I also felt it was nowhere ready to drink. Conversely, the 2000 Grosset PH (screwcapped) was thoroughly over-the hill, as it has been for some time, in my view. I reckon this peaked by the time it was five.
Also, my instinctive response to the OP was steingarten, and that was before I read the giveaway clue about the icon vineyard!
cheers,
Graeme

I’ve never tired one of the 2000 but the other PH I’ve tried generally seemed to need a min of 10 years. The most recent PH I’ve opened from the cellar was the 09 but it was way too young. Strong acid, almost pale green hue and virtually no development.

I did try the 17 at a recent tasting and it does have superb potential but like most rieslings I except it will shut down for a decade at least. It is also why I have a preference for the Springvale

I wouldn’t be judging PH based on the 2000 vintage. Not many will be able to tell me one producer from Barossa, Clare or Eden that made a great wine that year. It was a train wreck for most producers.

George Krashos wrote:Yep, agree with Graeme on the 2000 PH. Opened one a few months ago and it was disappointing.

The Tasting Australia Riesling tasting was fun though. The aged bracket had 2006 Grossett Watervale, 2007 Jim Barry Florita, 2013 Peter Lehmann Wigan and 2002 Orlando Steingarten. For me, the Orlando was the stand out. Beautiful.

-- George Krashos

That is what you called a loaded tasting. 2002 is the arguably the best riesling vintage in the last 20 years. You would hope a wine from this year would trump the other younger wines, none of which are from particularly renowned vintages. It does appear however as though 2017 will be on par with 2002.

Mark

George Krashos wrote:Yep, agree with Graeme on the 2000 PH. Opened one a few months ago and it was disappointing.

The Tasting Australia Riesling tasting was fun though. The aged bracket had 2006 Grossett Watervale, 2007 Jim Barry Florita, 2013 Peter Lehmann Wigan and 2002 Orlando Steingarten. For me, the Orlando was the stand out. Beautiful.

-- George Krashos

That 2013 Wigan was all over the shop when I tried it about a month ago. I dunno if it’s come out of its Riesling slumber yet, but it was spiky and bitter and not at all what I would have expected. I’ve been told it was a problematic vintage. Has anyone else tried it and how did you find it ?

cuttlefish wrote:

George Krashos wrote:Yep, agree with Graeme on the 2000 PH. Opened one a few months ago and it was disappointing.

The Tasting Australia Riesling tasting was fun though. The aged bracket had 2006 Grossett Watervale, 2007 Jim Barry Florita, 2013 Peter Lehmann Wigan and 2002 Orlando Steingarten. For me, the Orlando was the stand out. Beautiful.

-- George Krashos

That 2013 Wigan was all over the shop when I tried it about a month ago. I dunno if it’s come out of its Riesling slumber yet, but it was spiky and bitter and not at all what I would have expected. I’ve been told it was a problematic vintage. Has anyone else tried it and how did you find it ?

The riesling slumber is a hard one to gauge and more than once I have been caught out. A classic example of this for me was the 2009 Mesh. I had a case and started into it about two years ago. Initially I found it two dimensional and boring so I started using it as a mid week quaffer. Then about 3-4 months ago it just morphed and the last 2-3 bottles have fleshed out, the colour has deepened and the palate just developed into something really enjoyable. Now I am kicking myself for being so impatient.

Mike Hawkins wrote:As good as Steingarten is, I would choose Florita over it in most vintages. A real ‘icon vineyard’ in every respect

Mike tend to agree, have 3-4 vintages of the Florita...that said Pikes Merle and Seppelts Drumborg are right up there for me.

Cheers
Craig.

phillisc wrote:

Mike Hawkins wrote:As good as Steingarten is, I would choose Florita over it in most vintages. A real ‘icon vineyard’ in every respect

Mike tend to agree, have 3-4 vintages of the Florita...that said Pikes Merle and Seppelts Drumborg are right up there for me.

Cheers
Craig.

I love the Seppelts Drumborg and recently have added more Victorian rieslings. The Merle is the big hole in my collection. I would like to add some of the '17 as a start.

Mahmoud Ali wrote:

Mike Hawkins wrote:As good as Steingarten is, I would choose Florita over it in most vintages. A real ‘icon vineyard’ in every respect

Agreed, as the Steingarten is no longer a single vineyard wine. When I visited the Clare Valley I heard about the Florita vineyard and tried to visit but it was closed/sold out so I never got to taste one. Somehow I seem to recall that it was then called Clos Clare. Having recently tasted a couple of Grosset 'Polish Hill', also a single vineyard wine, I would choose it over the Steingarten.

Mahmoud.

Clos Clare is a brand name, albeit associated with the Barry family. Their riesling comes from a vineyard adjacent to Florita.

Florita is the source of the legendary John Vickery Rieslings made under the Leo Buring brand in the 70s. Not sure when it passed to the Barry's.

Shame about Steingarten being turned from a single vineyard into a brand, it was a cracking riesling once upon a time. Seems to be a habit with anything originally associated with Orlando.

phillisc wrote:

Mike Hawkins wrote:As good as Steingarten is, I would choose Florita over it in most vintages. A real ‘icon vineyard’ in every respect

Mike tend to agree, have 3-4 vintages of the Florita...that said Pikes Merle and Seppelts Drumborg are right up there for me.

Cheers
Craig.

I’m not as enamoured with Drumborg as most, though I do buy it periodically. The Merle is a big step up for my tastes. The 17 is really good

Wizz wrote:

Mahmoud Ali wrote:

Mike Hawkins wrote:As good as Steingarten is, I would choose Florita over it in most vintages. A real ‘icon vineyard’ in every respect

Agreed, as the Steingarten is no longer a single vineyard wine. When I visited the Clare Valley I heard about the Florita vineyard and tried to visit but it was closed/sold out so I never got to taste one. Somehow I seem to recall that it was then called Clos Clare. Having recently tasted a couple of Grosset 'Polish Hill', also a single vineyard wine, I would choose it over the Steingarten.

Mahmoud.

Clos Clare is a brand name, albeit associated with the Barry family. Their riesling comes from a vineyard adjacent to Florita.

Florita is the source of the legendary John Vickery Rieslings made under the Leo Buring brand in the 70s. Not sure when it passed to the Barry's.

Shame about Steingarten being turned from a single vineyard into a brand, it was a cracking riesling once upon a time. Seems to be a habit with anything originally associated with Orlando.

Wizz, Barry's purchased in 86, some 75 acres plus the beautiful old two storey building. In the early to mid 90s I remember the building and a small patch of land/vineyards ( 5 acres I think) was for sale, as cash flow was an issue. I still have the clipping from The Advertiser and contemplated with a mate about buying it, around $200 000 IIRC, which is a song by today's standards. It was for a while an artists studio?? Barry's repurchased it back in 07 and now CD for the sons Tom and Sam who run Clos Clare.

Cheers
Craig

Does that mean the Clos Clare Florita is a small part of the original vineyard?

Mahmoud Ali wrote:Does that mean the Clos Clare Florita is a small part of the original vineyard?

The Clos Clare website even now says their riesling comes from a plot adjacent to Florita. i suppose it could once have been part of the Florita vineyard?

phillisc wrote:

Wizz wrote:

Mahmoud Ali wrote: Agreed, as the Steingarten is no longer a single vineyard wine. When I visited the Clare Valley I heard about the Florita vineyard and tried to visit but it was closed/sold out so I never got to taste one. Somehow I seem to recall that it was then called Clos Clare. Having recently tasted a couple of Grosset 'Polish Hill', also a single vineyard wine, I would choose it over the Steingarten.

Mahmoud.

Clos Clare is a brand name, albeit associated with the Barry family. Their riesling comes from a vineyard adjacent to Florita.

Florita is the source of the legendary John Vickery Rieslings made under the Leo Buring brand in the 70s. Not sure when it passed to the Barry's.

Shame about Steingarten being turned from a single vineyard into a brand, it was a cracking riesling once upon a time. Seems to be a habit with anything originally associated with Orlando.

Wizz, Barry's purchased in 86, some 75 acres plus the beautiful old two storey building. In the early to mid 90s I remember the building and a small patch of land/vineyards ( 5 acres I think) was for sale, as cash flow was an issue. I still have the clipping from The Advertiser and contemplated with a mate about buying it, around $200 000 IIRC, which is a song by today's standards. It was for a while an artists studio?? Barry's repurchased it back in 07 and now CD for the sons Tom and Sam who run Clos Clare.

Cheers
Craig

Thanks Craig, that opens a new question for me - Leo Buring was releasing rieslings into the 90s and early 2000s, so if the source wasn't Florita where did those grapes come from? And by this time John Vickery was working with Richmond Grove i think.

Reminiscing

Jim Barry own the Florita Vineyard. Not all the fruit goes to Jim Barry though. No doubt the fruit / Vineyard produces some lovely wines.