The Auswine Forum

I had a 2002 Penfolds Thomas Hyland shiraz last night. It was a last minute thing and so I had to purchase it at Liquorland for $19.95. Normally I think you could get it for about $15 per doz. But that was ok, I wanted to try it after it got a flattering review in the latest Rewards of Patience. I was hoping it could turn out to be a good quaffer.

It was good drinkable wine no doubt, but it had that certain pong and tang that comes with some lesser wines. I don't know how to describe it, but I find it many cheaper wines, whites too. It is quite easily discernable to me. I know as soon as I taste it that if I over indulge it will mean a decent headache in the morning that can be avoided with better quality drops. The flavour I am referring to does not fit a normal, recognisable wine flavour. It is just an underlying taste. I simply refer to it as that 'cheap wine taste'.

Some cheaper wines don't have it - Wynns shiraz and Mamre Brook for example. And it is not restricted to mass produced wines either.

It baffles me a bit. Does any else sense the same thing ? Is it simply just a result of lesser grapes and attention in the winery or is there something else at play ?

Blake

Blake wrote:I had a 2002 Penfolds Thomas Hyland shiraz last night. It was a last minute thing and so I had to purchase it at Liquorland for $19.95. Normally I think you could get it for about $15 per doz. But that was ok, I wanted to try it after it got a flattering review in the latest Rewards of Patience. I was hoping it could turn out to be a good quaffer.

It was good drinkable wine no doubt, but it had that certain pong and tang that comes with some lesser wines. I don't know how to describe it, but I find it many cheaper wines, whites too. It is quite easily discernable to me. I know as soon as I taste it that if I over indulge it will mean a decent headache in the morning that can be avoided with better quality drops. The flavour I am referring to does not fit a normal, recognisable wine flavour. It is just an underlying taste. I simply refer to it as that 'cheap wine taste'.

Some cheaper wines don't have it - Wynns shiraz and Mamre Brook for example. And it is not restricted to mass produced wines either.

It baffles me a bit. Does any else sense the same thing ? Is it simply just a result of lesser grapes and attention in the winery or is there something else at play ?

Blake

I think of it more as a confectionary taste and don't like it.

Graham

Yes ! That sounds like it. It is very off-putting.

Instinct always told me that this is what 'high yield' grapes taste like. It's as though the grapes have been worked very hard in the winery - with every trick in the book being used (powered acid & tannin added), but still failing to disguise the dilute nature of the initial fruit. So the unpleasant flavours are a combination of industrial manufacturing techniques being applied - resulting in deep colour, lifted aromatics - to grapes which can't support - indeed only highlight - the artificial nature of the structure they're trying to fill out.

In an older world, such grapes would have been fermented out to about 10 or 11% alcohol, been a light cherry red at best, and have a "cordial-plus" type of flavour. The sort of wine that pickers drink from tumblers at lunchtime during vintage in those documentaries of bucolic rural scenes.

The attempt these days to make a silk purse from a sow's ear invariably fails because the wine is an imposter. You can't put a seventeen-year-old pop diva on stage and expect her to sing Brunnhilde...

cheers,
Graeme

GraemeG wrote:Instinct always told me that this is what 'high yield' grapes taste like. It's as though the grapes have been worked very hard in the winery - with every trick in the book being used (powered acid & tannin added), but still failing to disguise the dilute nature of the initial fruit. So the unpleasant flavours are a combination of industrial manufacturing techniques being applied - resulting in deep colour, lifted aromatics - to grapes which can't support - indeed only highlight - the artificial nature of the structure they're trying to fill out.

In an older world, such grapes would have been fermented out to about 10 or 11% alcohol, been a light cherry red at best, and have a "cordial-plus" type of flavour. The sort of wine that pickers drink from tumblers at lunchtime during vintage in those documentaries of bucolic rural scenes.

The attempt these days to make a silk purse from a sow's ear invariably fails because the wine is an imposter. You can't put a seventeen-year-old pop diva on stage and expect her to sing Brunnhilde...

cheers,
Graeme

I think I know what you mean and I've always felt that it came from Riverland, irrigated, sun drenched grapes.

Now I don't know if Hyland contains Riverland grapes, but I know exactly what you mean, and its very noticable to me also, its a slightly pungent, 'baked' kind of character.

GrahamB wrote:
I think of it more as a confectionary taste and don't like it.

Graham

Is there a bit of residual sugar involved here? I know the taste you mean, dont like it either, and I've wondered if a bit of RS is part of it (but I suspect not all of it),

AB

Blake wrote:I had a 2002 Penfolds Thomas Hyland shiraz last night. It was a last minute thing and so I had to purchase it at Liquorland for $19.95. Normally I think you could get it for about $15 per doz. But that was ok, I wanted to try it after it got a flattering review in the latest Rewards of Patience. I was hoping it could turn out to be a good quaffer.

It was good drinkable wine no doubt, but it had that certain pong and tang that comes with some lesser wines. I don't know how to describe it, but I find it many cheaper wines, whites too. It is quite easily discernable to me. I know as soon as I taste it that if I over indulge it will mean a decent headache in the morning that can be avoided with better quality drops. The flavour I am referring to does not fit a normal, recognisable wine flavour. It is just an underlying taste. I simply refer to it as that 'cheap wine taste'.

Some cheaper wines don't have it - Wynns shiraz and Mamre Brook for example. And it is not restricted to mass produced wines either.

It baffles me a bit. Does any else sense the same thing ? Is it simply just a result of lesser grapes and attention in the winery or is there something else at play ?

Blake

I'm pretty sure I know what you mean.
I am certain you can put that cheap wine taste down to ;

added powdered tannins
added oak chips,or added oak powder(I think they can do this)
added sugar

both of which I reckon I can detect even just by smelling the wine.
The chippy taste and artificial tannins almost always give me a splitting headache,sometimes after my first sip !!!
Added sugar just doesn't meld with the wine and can give it a candy type finish which I also can't stand.

guest8

Also suggested as a culprit is exptened maceration, even carbonic maceration. Can give a bubblegummy character.

AB