The Auswine Forum

Posted: **Sat Oct 07, 2017 12:22 pm**

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Posted: **Sat Oct 07, 2017 1:07 pm**

The last Penfolds vintage I brought was 2006.
I was a regular buyer up until then and represents about 15% of the Australian wine in my cellar.

So I voted no.

Cheers Con.

Posted: **Sat Oct 07, 2017 3:36 pm**

Err No...Bin 28 Approaching $50, 389 $100, Magill $150...You would have to be fu*king joking

Cheers
Craig

Posted: **Sat Oct 07, 2017 3:55 pm**

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Posted: **Sat Oct 07, 2017 4:01 pm**

The last Penfolds I bought was a 6 pack of 2006 Grange for $NZ1600, a 6 pack of 2010 St Henri for $NZ540 oh and 2x 2011 Yattarna for $27 a bottle lol

Apart from that I haven't purchased a single bottle of Penfolds for a decade. You could argue I have only opened my wallet once for anything that wasn't just an opportunistic rout in ten years

To me only St Henri is worth the $$ these days

Posted: **Sat Oct 07, 2017 4:18 pm**

Short answer No. Refuse to get caught up in PR bullsh*t and hype. Agree with Craig (NZ) in that the only value is the St Henri when you can grab it on special around the $80 mark.

Posted: **Sat Oct 07, 2017 4:45 pm**

I answered no.

Never had much interest in Penfolds since I started cellaring wines 3 or so years ago. I've only got a few bottles of Bin 389 and St. Henri. I saw much better value elsewhere. Was much more interested in purchasing the likes of Standish, Sami-Odi & Yangarra Estate for full-bodied SA shiraz.

Posted: **Sat Oct 07, 2017 4:55 pm**

Twenty odd years ago when I was just getting into wine, wines like the 389 were just out of reach on my income at the time. The increases in price over the years put them further out of reach for a while, and when I got to the stage where I could afford the 389s or others in the range should I choose to do so, the QPR was so out of whack with the rest of the market that they have never been a consideration. Maybe if I was buying with one eye on investment I might feel differently. These days, I can't even summon the interest to try them when they are available at free tastings.

Posted: **Sat Oct 07, 2017 5:11 pm**

paulf wrote:Twenty odd years ago when I was just getting into wine, wines like the 389 were just out of reach on my income at the time. The increases in price over the years put them further out of reach for a while, and when I got to the stage where I could afford the 389s or others in the range should I choose to do so, the QPR was so out of whack with the rest of the market that they have never been a consideration. Maybe if I was buying with one eye on investment I might feel differently. These days, I can't even summon the interest to try them when they are available at free tastings.

There is no such thing as "wine investment". It is simply a convenient excuse to buy and later drink

Posted: **Sat Oct 07, 2017 6:03 pm**

I have 96s and 98s in my cellar. A few 2004s (birth year of the eldest) and a smattering of the higher end stuff of various vintages (mostly gifts if truth be told). A fan of Bin 389 but at that price have no hesitation in looking elsewhere. I also compare the price of Bin407 and Wynns Black Label and just shake my head.

-- George Krashos

Posted: **Sat Oct 07, 2017 6:18 pm**

Usually there's some specials advertised just after release. St Henri and 389 would be my possibles (hence voted 'maybe') depending on price. Can't justify Grange at release prices when you can pick mature versions at auction (with of course, the risk that this entails) for a third or a half the price. Also, there may be no point in buying a wine now whose drinking window opens in 20 years - I may not be in any condition to appreciate it.

Posted: **Sat Oct 07, 2017 7:18 pm**

So what do we all think the Bin 389 is worth? Ie what would you pay for it ?

I've bought last three vintages and now thinking of skipping. I keep running reading that each vintage is nowhere near the wine of yesteryear so I think I've got enough, move along to better things.

Posted: **Sat Oct 07, 2017 7:25 pm**

Big NOPE from me.
The last Pennies I got was the 2010 St Henri (Gave into the hype). Although I have been gifted a few 389's since, but for me there is much better QPR in a thousanty million other places.

Posted: **Sat Oct 07, 2017 7:27 pm**

Dragzworthy wrote:So what do we all think the Bin 389 is worth? Ie what would you pay for it ?

I've bought last three vintages and now thinking of skipping. I keep running reading that each vintage is nowhere near the wine of yesteryear so I think I've got enough, move along to better things.

Under $50. Perhaps early forties to get my wallet open and then I would want a taste before I did.

Posted: **Sat Oct 07, 2017 7:39 pm**

Con J wrote:The last Penfolds vintage I brought was 2006.

2004 for me, and before that 1999 (barring a single bottle of the '76' branded Koonunga Hill - not sure which year).

That ship has sailed for me. What I still have I will drink, but they'll not be replaced.

Posted: **Sat Oct 07, 2017 7:41 pm**

I drank my last 1996 Bin 389 about a month ago. Supposed to be one of the lauded vintages of lore. Look it was good wine, but the structure of it was too chunky to be called a great wine. It lacked elegance and sophistication. It wasn't a special wine moment

Australia's most cellared wine? I'm not sure I would even bother to be honest. There are many many vintages worse than 1996!

Posted: **Sat Oct 07, 2017 8:19 pm**

Secondary market has so much on offer 90/91/96 Bin 389 for $100 = no chance of buying new release stuff

Posted: **Sat Oct 07, 2017 9:33 pm**

Dragzworthy wrote:So what do we all think the Bin 389 is worth? Ie what would you pay for it ?

I think it's worth $50 RRP with a street price in the mid 40s.

Posted: **Sat Oct 07, 2017 10:43 pm**

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Posted: **Sat Oct 07, 2017 11:30 pm**

Sean wrote:Tyson Stelzer said this about the Bin 389 in his review of the Penfolds release wines last year -
... and production of Bin 389 now exceeds 100,000 cases in some vintages. Penfolds reports that 389 is on allocation in every market and says it would make more if it could access the right fruit.
Just wondering if it makes any difference if it gets over a million bottles?

RRP is $95.

I heard from (more than one Penfolds) inside source it's well over a million already.

Yep, you read right. Well over a million plus of Bin 389. That is not a mistake, or just a rumour.

Posted: **Sun Oct 08, 2017 4:56 am**

Ozzie W wrote:
Dragzworthy wrote:So what do we all think the Bin 389 is worth? Ie what would you pay for it ?
I think it's worth $50 RRP with a street price in the mid 40s.

I'd say that's about right. I'd not be a buyer at that price, but I'd say that was where it should be to tempt those that like that style of wine.

I hope they are selling through in Asia, because they will have lost many previous customers with their aspirational pricing.

Posted: **Sun Oct 08, 2017 7:12 am**

I have many bottles of 389 from 71-98 and it really is an excellent wine with age for my tastes. That said, post 1997 it moved away from its traditional fruit sources with the introduction of new labels in the Penfolds range (eg RWT). These days, the right price given the market is circa $60 IMO.

Posted: **Sun Oct 08, 2017 1:58 pm**

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Posted: **Sun Oct 08, 2017 2:37 pm**

I’m out - just price and value for money

Posted: **Sun Oct 08, 2017 2:39 pm**

Rocky wrote:Short answer No. Refuse to get caught up in PR bullsh*t and hype. Agree with Craig (NZ) in that the only value is the St Henri when you can grab it on special around the $80 mark.

The opening of the new DM in Double Bay coincided with the St Henri 2010 release. To encourage new punters they were selling it for $67 which made it impossible to ignore.

Mark

Posted: **Sun Oct 08, 2017 5:10 pm**

Last release I bought was 2006. Both 389 and St Henri. None since.

I have bought a few at auction (2006 Magill Magnums) but that is secondary market.

407 is an absolute joke.... $70+....please

Those that say Penfolds are only chasing export markets are right IMO.
At every price point there are much better alternatives in Australia.

Posted: **Sun Oct 08, 2017 5:30 pm**

Rossco wrote:Last release I bought was 2006. Both 389 and St Henri. None since.

I have bought a few at auction (2006 Magill Magnums) but that is secondary market.

407 is an absolute joke.... $70+....please

Those that say Penfolds are only chasing export markets are right IMO.
At every price point there are much better alternatives in Australia.

But at really any of their price points there's better value. So happens I'm in Tokyo right now and it seems a struggle to find any Australian wine (I've been checking just to see without intention of buying). Stacks of Californian, Bordeaux, Burgundy, Tuscan and Piedmont. Not much else outside this. In the cheap zone you find South American stuff. I don't think THAT many Asians would buy Penfolds over Bordeaux or Rhone unless they didn't know what they were doing but, even then, the concept of 'face' (Mianzi) and perception would probably have them buying the French wine. Those that do indeed know are also likely to buy European based on the prices I see across Asia.

Posted: **Sun Oct 08, 2017 6:13 pm**

Except for their entry level labels, Penfolds has become just another luxury brand. Many people buying either to just show off or for investment purposes. It's taken decades for Penfolds to build their brand to the point where it's now at. Right now, their approach is working very well for TWE shareholders. How it will play out in the future is anyone's guess. I think they're slowly damaging their brand by raising prices too much and sometimes releasing substandard wines.

Posted: **Sun Oct 08, 2017 7:26 pm**

Hi Dragzworthy
Japan might be a slightly different case, as it's had a long established fine wine market and I'd expect it to be European classics dominated, though California being there ahead of Aussie is notable.
Regards
Ian

Posted: **Sun Oct 08, 2017 9:07 pm**

Sean wrote:To get the volume needed for that, a ridiculous amount of 389 is being trucked out of Penfolds and shipped o/s. (Must be following in the wake of the container ships laden with record loads of iron ore heading across the Pacific.) They have been working on that for years now, developing new vineyard areas and slowly (but surely) pumping out even more wine with that label on it.

No surprise if you look at the sources for the new vintage 389. You get Wrattonbully, McLaren Vale, Barossa Valley, Coonawarra, Robe and Padthaway. I think the convention is those are listed in order of the size of the component in the blend. So how much Wrattonbully wine do you have in your cellar?

Wouldn't it stand to reason that quality would be compromised in the pursuit of volume?

The feedback tends to suggest the quality has remained high (but hasn't increased proportionate to the price increases).

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