The Auswine Forum

Hi,
Just like to say hi and introduce myself. My name is Brendan and I live in Brisbane.
As the title suggests, I am new to keeping wine. Started out after I met my wife 7 years ago where my father in law just kept putting wine in front of me. I learnt to love it.
I started buying bottles this year and have about 50-60 bottles so far. I bought a couple of the DM deals where I got some wynns, st Hugo and penfolds. Bought a few more different labels and vintages since.

Can I get some advice of where to buy and how to buy?
Are the DM deals when they come up from time to time worth it or is there a better way.
I'm not a millionaire but I don't mind dropping a little coin if they are worth it.

I'll probably never have a cellar collection like some of you have but I would like to have a couple of hundred bottles built up at some stage. I guess you have to start somewhere, right?

Cheers for your time
Brendan

Madanie7 wrote:Hi,
Just like to say hi and introduce myself. My name is Brendan and I live in Brisbane.
As the title suggests, I am new to keeping wine. Started out after I met my wife 7 years ago where my father in law just kept putting wine in front of me. I learnt to love it.
I started buying bottles this year and have about 50-60 bottles so far. I bought a couple of the DM deals where I got some wynns, st Hugo and penfolds. Bought a few more different labels and vintages since.

Can I get some advice of where to buy and how to buy?
Are the DM deals when they come up from time to time worth it or is there a better way.
I'm not a millionaire but I don't mind dropping a little coin if they are worth it.

I'll probably never have a cellar collection like some of you have but I would like to have a couple of hundred bottles built up at some stage. I guess you have to start somewhere, right?

Cheers for your time
Brendan

Welcome to the forum!

Our forum host, Gavin, sells wine, so one of the rules of this forum is not to discuss other retailers. If you tell us more about what types of wine you like, I'm sure many here will be able to direct you to some of his wares.

Sorry, sounds fair enough.
Cab Sauv and Shiraz but being new to the world, I haven't tried many others.

Hi Brendan, and welcome!

We all start somewhere, here in Oz it's typically much like yourself with Penfolds, Wynns, typically bigger style reds, a few cellar door visits etc. Over time your tastes may or may not change so be wary of building your collection too fast. Best advice I can give is go to as many tasting events as you can, find some friends to drink and share bottles with and keep an open mind, there are so many styles of wines and while you may not like some on first tasting, many of them will grow on you to the point where you love it!

Lots of different ways to buy wine and trying to always get whatever is on special can also be overrated, maybe buy a touch more quality, not quantity. Gavin our forum host sells a lot of good stuff and if you send him an email with your tastes and asking for some suggestions, he'll fix you up a great 6 pack or mixed dozen at a good price I'm sure and can include a few styles which might take your journey off in different directions. And don't forget Champagne and white wine!!

Here are some older topics on starting a cellar....

Cheers
Tim

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=12887&p=103307&

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=13673&

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2839&p=18464&

Madanie7 wrote:Sorry, sounds fair enough.
Cab Sauv and Shiraz but being new to the world, I haven't tried many others.

Welcome to the forum
I'm in Brisbane too and have been on here for about a decade or so-others much longer. This forum is a great wealth of knowledge and I encourage you to search the thousands of threads. Get to tastings like the Coonawarra road show, in store tastings etc which expose you to a truck load of wines and different styles.
Search the threads about starting a cellar. There is great advice and plenty of buys that won't break the bank. Take particular note of advice about buying the same styles and styles you currently enjoy, as your palate WILL change over time and you will regret not having any German Reisling and Rioja in your cellar when you go off the Big Barossa Shiraz you bought 20 cases of when you first started out.
Get to some off-lines. Brisbane gets their act together about 3 or 4 times a year and you get to try and share some great wines with some nice people like me (the others are OK too ).
Reading this forum you will get a feel for what is good, great and indifferent and you can buy some to try from our host Gavin, or google/wine searcher will lead you other stockists if Gavin does not have your particular wine. Sometimes if you drop Gavin a note he may get it in for you.
To sum up, spend some time here and you will get so much knowledge and guidance.
Again welcome and we hope to catch you at an offline in Brisbane. Rumour has it October is firming as a date in the not too distant future.

Thanks for both of your replies.
Appreciate the help and the links, great advice.
Cheers

rens wrote:

Madanie7 wrote:Sorry, sounds fair enough.
Cab Sauv and Shiraz but being new to the world, I haven't tried many others.

Welcome to the forum
I'm in Brisbane too and have been on here for about a decade or so-others much longer. This forum is a great wealth of knowledge and I encourage you to search the thousands of threads. Get to tastings like the Coonawarra road show, in store tastings etc which expose you to a truck load of wines and different styles.
Search the threads about starting a cellar. There is great advice and plenty of buys that won't break the bank. Take particular note of advice about buying the same styles and styles you currently enjoy, as your palate WILL change over time and you will regret not having any German Reisling and Rioja in your cellar when you go off the Big Barossa Shiraz you bought 20 cases of when you first started out.
Get to some off-lines. Brisbane gets their act together about 3 or 4 times a year and you get to try and share some great wines with some nice people like me (the others are OK too ).
Reading this forum you will get a feel for what is good, great and indifferent and you can buy some to try from our host Gavin, or google/wine searcher will lead you other stockists if Gavin does not have your particular wine. Sometimes if you drop Gavin a note he may get it in for you.
To sum up, spend some time here and you will get so much knowledge and guidance.
Again welcome and we hope to catch you at an offline in Brisbane. Rumour has it October is firming as a date in the not too distant future.

Thanks Rens. Appreciate the help. Might tee up a mate in a similar position to me and get involved

More advice FWIW....

Forget about following points. Taste the wines yourself as often as you can before believing others and thus buying purely based on someone else's high score. Someone's 97 point stunner is the next person's 88 point boring unbalanced wine.

Serve your red wines on the cooler side, say 16-18C, not the average Qld room temp! It makes a difference.

Definitely go to offlines, the people are always really friendly, and you get to taste a wide variety of wine and have a lot of laughs as well. Maybe even get a few friends and put money in for a 'wine appreciation night', 12 wines from 12 different countries or something like that.

Madanie7 wrote:

rens wrote:

Madanie7 wrote:Sorry, sounds fair enough.
Cab Sauv and Shiraz but being new to the world, I haven't tried many others.

Welcome to the forum
I'm in Brisbane too and have been on here for about a decade or so-others much longer. This forum is a great wealth of knowledge and I encourage you to search the thousands of threads. Get to tastings like the Coonawarra road show, in store tastings etc which expose you to a truck load of wines and different styles.
Search the threads about starting a cellar. There is great advice and plenty of buys that won't break the bank. Take particular note of advice about buying the same styles and styles you currently enjoy, as your palate WILL change over time and you will regret not having any German Reisling and Rioja in your cellar when you go off the Big Barossa Shiraz you bought 20 cases of when you first started out.
Get to some off-lines. Brisbane gets their act together about 3 or 4 times a year and you get to try and share some great wines with some nice people like me (the others are OK too ).
Reading this forum you will get a feel for what is good, great and indifferent and you can buy some to try from our host Gavin, or google/wine searcher will lead you other stockists if Gavin does not have your particular wine. Sometimes if you drop Gavin a note he may get it in for you.
To sum up, spend some time here and you will get so much knowledge and guidance.
Again welcome and we hope to catch you at an offline in Brisbane. Rumour has it October is firming as a date in the not too distant future.

Thanks Rens. Appreciate the help. Might tee up a mate in a similar position to me and get involved

We often have our partners/friends (referred to as our +1) attend.

Interesting to read that the most common comment is "your tastes will/may change"
Gave me a different perspective instantly.

rens wrote:

Madanie7 wrote:Sorry, sounds fair enough.
Cab Sauv and Shiraz but being new to the world, I haven't tried many others.

Big Barossa Shiraz you bought 20 cases of when you first started out.

This was my biggest mistake, too much shiraz.
Ive been buying seriously for 5 years, 1500 bottles and im now trying to get rid of the stuff to make room for more interesting varietals.

i was watching gary vaynerchuk (blind tastng brunello wines) on youtube today and he really emphasized trying different things.
He's a bit out there no doubt but i agree with him when he says keep an open mind and mix it up as much as you can.

I have been collecting wine for about 40 years, and now have a cellar of around 5,000 bottles.
Sounds good?
Well, actually, of those 5,000 bottles, no more than about 1,000 interest me. That is honest. On reflection, probably less than 1,000.
The other 4,000 sit there and grow old. I use them for family functions, give them to mates, bring them to dinner parties, use them as presents.... but don't drink them, or rarely drink them at best.
These 4,000 bottles were wines I once loved. Indeed, my 20's and 30's were filled with boozy nights glugging huge Aussie shiraz, monstrous Aussie Cabs, and gigantic Aussie blends. They were cheap, cheerful and obtainable bottles... goodness, Grange Hermitage was then only $20-30 on release, Hill of Grace less than half that. So I purchased case after case and stuck then in the cellar. 30 years later, I just don't like them. To my "well-aged" palate, they are just all slight variations on the same theme. Now, I am not trying in any way to denigrate Aussie wines, but I am trying to show how my (and every other older wine lover I know) palate has significantly changed over the journey. Trust me, your palate will change too, to where who knows, but it will change.

So, I will give you one piece of advice from all my experiences. If you are pretty new to wine, DO NOT bother buying wine to cellar for at least the next five years, preferable ten.
In ten years time, if you maintain a passion for wine, you will have tried just about all the varietals and regions that are worth trying, and you will have your favourites. These, you can buy to cellar and enjoy long-term.

felixp21 wrote:I have been collecting wine for about 40 years, and now have a cellar of around 5,000 bottles.
Sounds good?
Well, actually, of those 5,000 bottles, no more than about 1,000 interest me. That is honest. On reflection, probably less than 1,000.
The other 4,000 sit there and grow old. I use them for family functions, give them to mates, bring them to dinner parties, use them as presents.... but don't drink them, or rarely drink them at best.
These 4,000 bottles were wines I once loved. Indeed, my 20's and 30's were filled with boozy nights glugging huge Aussie shiraz, monstrous Aussie Cabs, and gigantic Aussie blends. They were cheap, cheerful and obtainable bottles... goodness, Grange Hermitage was then only $20-30 on release, Hill of Grace less than half that. So I purchased case after case and stuck then in the cellar. 30 years later, I just don't like them. To my "well-aged" palate, they are just all slight variations on the same theme. Now, I am not trying in any way to denigrate Aussie wines, but I am trying to show how my (and every other older wine lover I know) palate has significantly changed over the journey. Trust me, your palate will change too, to where who knows, but it will change.

So, I will give you one piece of advice from all my experiences. If you are pretty new to wine, DO NOT bother buying wine to cellar for at least the next five years, preferable ten.
In ten years time, if you maintain a passion for wine, you will have tried just about all the varietals and regions that are worth trying, and you will have your favourites. These, you can buy to cellar and enjoy long-term.

I'd like to temper FelixP21's advice a little. I've been cellaring seriously for 20 years and have around 2,000 bottles currently. I'm looking forward to opening every one of them.

I agree that tastes will change, and mine have definitely broadened over time. I also spent my first 5 'wine' years (pre-cellaring) trying things and FelixP21's advice is sound here - try lots of different things. However, there were wines I bought in the early years that have formed the basis of verticals (FYI, many or a consecutive run of vintages of the same wine) 10-12 years (or more) down the track, and a search of my posts on this forum will demonstrate the pleasure that my friends and I have obtained from tasting verticals. If I had not put a few away at the start, the verticals may have never developed / evolved in the cellar.

I sincerely believe that most wine (especially Australian) is drunk too young, and that even an average red (and some whites) benefit from 2-3 years bottle age. So, don't be afraid to collect wines that appeal to you, and put a couple away for a couple of years. Assuming all this practice (sorry, drinking) leads to some palate memory (you can recall what the wine tasted like a year or two ago), then you can compare the semi-aged wine to your memory of the younger wine. If you prefer the aged version, then the cellaring has been a success.

Therefore, I'd recommend cellaring from day one, at least in the short to medium term (2-5 years). The knowledge you gain from opening a six-pack of wine one at a time over 5 years (and retaining the palate memory) is the price of an education in itself.

Cheers
Allan

TiggerK wrote:More advice FWIW....

Forget about following points. Taste the wines yourself as often as you can before believing others and thus buying purely based on someone else's high score. Someone's 97 point stunner is the next person's 88 point boring unbalanced wine.

Serve your red wines on the cooler side, say 16-18C, not the average Qld room temp! It makes a difference.

Definitely go to offlines, the people are always really friendly, and you get to taste a wide variety of wine and have a lot of laughs as well. Maybe even get a few friends and put money in for a 'wine appreciation night', 12 wines from 12 different countries or something like that.

Tigger has beaten me to the key comments I would have made

I'll add that if you have friends who are similarly interested, it's very simple to set up a tasting group at each other's houses. Happy to talk through the logisitics of this if it appeals. I used to love our old tasting group (we're now just regular friends, so wine is there but takes a back seat). In particular we used to have a simple assessment scale (no complex points or other such rubbish) - simply based on what you're tasting, how many dollars would you pay for a bottle of this? When the actual price was much less, that was the bottle to buy, not one that some merchant was claiming as a bargain or a great reduction.

Like others, I find the traditionally archetypal South Australian reds as much of a muchness, not bad wines at all, and on the days I fancy them, often enjoyable, but I get bored with them much more quickly than those on the fringes, and the Italian wines that now form the core of my cellar. I listened too much to the Aussie critics when I first got into wine, needing the benefit of my own palate experience to recognise that a great wine for them, might only be an average wine for me because of the style of the wine.

Thankyou all for your advice. Have taken every bit of it onboard.
I was beginning to be a little in the boat of "it scored high, it must be good and I will therefore like it"
I am glad I asked this question early before I bought cases and cases. I will reign back, taste as much as I can and see where this journey leads me.

Just on TiggerK's comment about points...
He mentioned that "Someone's 97 point stunner is the next person's 88 point boring unbalanced wine."
I started off point chasing initially, and truthfully it wasn't a bad way to start when you have no idea I suppose.
I give points to my own tastings and people can choose to ignore them but I score my own tastings for myself really.
88 points to me is still not a bad, even decent wine!

I'd also suggest to get on Cellartracker, whether it's to inventory your own wine, or look for reviews, drinking windows or all of the above. I find that and these forums invaluable.

Happy drinking!

Madanie7 wrote:Thankyou all for your advice. Have taken every bit of it onboard.
I was beginning to be a little in the boat of "it scored high, it must be good and I will therefore like it"
I am glad I asked this question early before I bought cases and cases. I will reign back, taste as much as I can and see where this journey leads me.

We all started out in wine as amateurs (i still am one) and probably the exact same way (chasing high point wines from certain critics),
so dont fall into that trap. Your tastes WILL change, so dont load up on what you like now.

*Try as many different wines/variety from as many different regions/producers as possible (whites, reds, sparklings, sweet, fortified ect)
- I started with Australian wines simply as they were easier to obtain/buy all those years ago. Now I am slowly moving onto other countries.... again its simply an evolution of my tastes & experiences. With the ranges & availability that is offered nowadays, the skys the limit really.

*I subscribed to The Wine Front (Digital) and Gourmet Traveller Wine (Magazine). Yes I still buy that dreaded Wine Companion once a year
but not for the points, simply the descriptions & drinking windows.

*Keep tasting notes and write detailed descriptions on what you try. You will improve simply by writing things down and analysing the
wines you try.

*Visit as many cellar doors as possible and try to engage the staff. Some are really bad, but the vast majority are amazing people who love the industry and their wines. The smaller wineries, you will find the winemaker or the owners manning the front desk.... and in winter during midweek is the best time to visit (very hard to visit that time I know, but many occasions special bottles have been opened and special tours organised when no one else is around).

*Only try to buy 3 of each wine to cellar (plus what you want to drink now) - sounds crazy I know, but some of the best advice I have received and has helped me a lot (thanks Ozzie!).

*Attend as many wine events & offlines as you can. Offlines are an amazing opportunity to meet and talk to true enthusiasts who just want to
share their passion & knowledge. I find it a great opportunity to share my best bottles, as you know they will be appreciated and not wasted.
There is no pretentiousness or arrogance, just a bunch of great people wanting to share.

*I have never attended a wine course or any formal education. All my experience is self taught based on the above points & this forum,
so I cant give you much advice about that.

Rossco wrote:*Only try to buy 3 of each wine to cellar (plus what you want to drink now) - sounds crazy I know, but some of the best advice I have received and has helped me a lot (thanks Ozzie!).

Thankyou
Assume this is the tastes change idea?

Also should I be looking for new release or buying something that's been in the bottle for a few years?

Madanie7 wrote:

Rossco wrote:*Only try to buy 3 of each wine to cellar (plus what you want to drink now) - sounds crazy I know, but some of the best advice I have received and has helped me a lot (thanks Ozzie!).

Thankyou
Assume this is the tastes change idea?

Also should I be looking for new release or buying something that's been in the bottle for a few years?

Three main reasons:
1. There is SO much great wine out there, your cellar cant possibly fit it all in. Plus remember next vintage will be "Vintage of the Century", "Best
Vintage since 200X" ect ect.

2. As they say, Variety is the spice of life. When summer hits, you (probably) want to start drinking chilled or lighter wines. Bit hard when your cellar is full of heavy reds.

3. Yep, you are right, tastes will change and you dont want a cellar full of wine you dont enjoy as much anymore (happens to everyone!)


Personally I buy wines with a few years on them, but again its completely up to your personal tastes.
New releases always have a premium on them usually and can be more expensive than older vintages..... but you then
can have a higher failure rate of older wines.

Thanks Rossco

Madanie7 wrote:Also should I be looking for new release or buying something that's been in the bottle for a few years?

Not everyone like older wines (my partner gets a bit grumpy at the 'old cr*p' I sometimes serve up - often Italian wines from the 1950s & 60s). It's well worth trying a few, with the mindset that not all turn out brilliantly, but the ones that do can make it all worthwhile. You might even wonder what all the fuss is about, and then up sneaks an old bottle that has no right to be as unique and thrilling as it is.

I'd recommend a minor 'dabble' in buying older wines (by older I mean ~ 15-40 years old for suitable cellaring reds). Only start buying big on older wines if what you taste thrills you. Older reds will often have a heavy sediment, so pouring the wine into a decanter/carafe/jug can help separate the wine from the sediment that you aim to leave in the bottle... but don't throw this away, as it's brilliant to use in cooking (stews etc.). These older wines can act as useful 'cellar defenders' to keep you from drinking the stuff that really needs a long sleep in the cellar, but some young wines are really good out of the gate, so form another useful 'cellar defence' approach.

The Winefront was mentioned above. I'd highly recommend spending the $50 on a subscription. Not only will it provide you with many reviews (which are usually way ahead of other media), the comments are often very useful too.

Oh, and don't forget to buy Pinot...

Some really great advice here. Take your time and enjoy the journey, Brendan!

I'll add one other tidbit of advice. Tread cautiously before broadening your horizons and getting into Old World wines. Once you get hooked on the the 3 B's - Burgundy, Barolo and Bordeaux - this becomes a very expensive hobby.

Thanks for all the additional advice. Every bit is fantastic and I am sure will help others in a similar position to me.
I will look into WineFront Simon, cheers.

Ozzie, I seem to find expensive hobbies. Fish tanks, Photography, Scuba Diving, Astronomy. I have wound a few back over the years. My wife calls me the "Fad Man" haha

Not sure if this was mentioned..
Go to as many shows as you can..you'll get a chance to try a lot of different things without having to buy everything to find out what it tastes like.
Basically - Try to taste as much as you can...there is really no replacement for actually getting to try something.

If you don't already know the basics of what you're seeing in wine...try to learn how to identify what you're drinking...
Alcohol, oak, tannins, acid, sugar...

And to echo again what others have said..

Unless you have tons of money to get the wine and to STORE it (which is probably a bigger problem) then don't buy too many of any one thing.
Tons of people here with a growing storage issue and part of that is because they have tons of wine they don't really want anymore...but part of that is also they have wines they'll never be able to finish in their lifetime because their buying outpaces their drinking by a lot..

Or that the cellar Polymer needs to be constantly re organised to get to anything.
I feel like bloody Houdini being able to get to a box that has a bottle in it that i want to drink, and then switch to being Charles Atlas when I had to move 20 cases...because that one bottle could not be found.
Still throws up nice surprises that there are purchases that I genuinely cannot remember getting...some Tatachilla Foundation Shiraz, Coriole Lloyd and two bottles of Bests Thompson's
Cheers
Craig

Fortunately/unfortunately I don't have that above of space to lose bottles
160 odd bottle bordex rack in a cupboard in coldest part of the house and 30 bottle fridge.

On the cupboard. 18-23deg, when it was 33 in Brisbane today. Different conversation to one above but I am kind of worried.

Madanie7 wrote:Fortunately/unfortunately I don't have that above of space to lose bottles
160 odd bottle bordex rack in a cupboard in coldest part of the house and 30 bottle fridge.

On the cupboard. 18-23deg, when it was 33 in Brisbane today. Different conversation to one above but I am kind of worried.

There are 2 off site storage options in Brisbane.
1) Kennards Storage Milton
2) National Storage Fortitude Valley

I have been at both. They are both much the same. Left Kennards after the floods in 2011 as the whole cellar went under. That said, it has now been moved to the top floor (I believe) so now it should be pretty flood free.
Storage size ranges from a dozen or so cases to rooms you can walk into. Cost is probably about $2 a bottle per year, assuming you fill your allocated space to the brim.

A note of caution about offsite storage.

I use intentionally limited storage space at home to limit the bottles I have. Without this limitation, I'm sure I would have twice the bottles I currently have. It makes you think about how much you want something, rather than simply pulling the trigger on a 'good deal'.

Offsite storage offers almost limitless space, so if you don't naturally keep buying under control, it can get out of hand and because you don't see it every week, you can lose sight of just how much you already have. Being out of sight, it also restricts the calming influence of a spousal when another case of wine arrives.