The Auswine Forum

...* if you never bought another bottle?

Assume you continue to consume wines broadly in line with current levels, though if you know that will change (e.g. returning from work overseas) feel free to factor that in.

If you consistently send wines off to auction already, then feel free to net those off the total.

Otherwise, simply = number of bottles in your cellar ÷ number of bottles drunk per year

This is on no way a thread to 'out' compulsive buyers of wine.

This thread brought to you by the long-suffering partners and starving kids of Auswine forumites

Regards
Ian

* who are we kidding, like that would happen!

At 3 bottles a week I am at about 23 years, at a bottle a day (sound like a soak ) I can last a decade.
Cheers
Craig

Hi Craig
A bottle a day sounds bad, but a friend of mine remarked a while back that he'd drink a bottle of a (weekday) evening, then consider opening another

We're drinking less than we were, but having constrained cellaring space means we're still in the 3-4 years bracket. That sounds really low, but I'll always find a way to fill back up to the limit of the cellar, so it is misleading. Many bottles that I hope to cellar for another decade or two.

3-4 years bracket as well, which is part of the reason I buy a fair amount of aged wine from auctions...

Interesting spread.... and no-one yet in the final category. There is hope for us!

I have always thought of my cellar as the toaster at the Qantas Club. I put bread in the top and out the bottom pops toast. As I prefer mature wine, I need to keep putting in a regular supply of wine if I am to drink the majority of my rieslings with 10 years min in the bottle and cabs and shiraz with min 12-14 years.

Ian S wrote:Interesting spread.... and no-one yet in the final category. There is hope for us!

That is because we are in denial !

I answered 21-30 years but I am sure my sons will get some wine as part of my estate.

Of course the issue is not how many bottles you have in the cellar today but what is your net depletion rate over time (consumption - purchases). My net depletion rate implies I am into the last category. But the poll was based on never buying another bottle.........

brodie

Ian S wrote:Interesting spread.... and no-one yet in the final category. There is hope for us!

If I win lotto...

Cheers
Craig

Will be interesting to see what the curve ends up like. Unfortunately or not, I won't get to a decade, however I have no intention of stopping buying int eh short term.

I based my calculation on removing 4 bottles a week on average. Some weeks would be zero (e.g. away on holidays), others would be higher (sharing bottles over dinner, offlines, etc). Also, sometimes a bottle would be corked or oxidised, so another would have to be removed in it's place.

I've got 1200 bottles so the answer is 5.8 years. I picked the 5-7 years option.

Im at 9 years roughly, but started 4 years ago so right sizing vintages still needs to be done. The 2012-14 vintages are 60% of the collection. So there needs to be over drinking of this young to prevent a cliff of wine maturing all the same time.

If you want 10yr maturity and do a Qantas toaster then you need to be withdrawing 10%pa and putting the latest 10% vintage in.

Has anyone else struggled with starting a cellar and getting a good maturity curve going?

Cactus wrote:
If you want 10yr maturity and do a Qantas toaster then you need to be withdrawing 10%pa and putting the latest 10% vintage in.

Has anyone else struggled with starting a cellar and getting a good maturity curve going?

That's sort of where I am. I roughly take and add a case per month now.


Mark

I have put 3-4yrs based on opening 4-5 bottles per week and not buying anything new...

This is a bit misleading though, as the bulk of my cellar (say 800 bottles out of 900) is the other side of the world!

I wouldn't know where to start. First off, I don't have an accurate count of my wines. Secondly, it is difficult to estimate a weekly average because I am often away from home (currently for three months). When I am home I tend to buy more than we drink, despite almost always drinking a sherry or aperitif before the dinner wine. Before leaving town this time I had to cart a two small carloads of wine to the cellar in order to clear the apartment. Even if I didn't buy any more wine I would be hard pressed to come up with an estimate.

Mahmoud

Geez I'm still the only one the picked the 1-2 year category.
And it's more like 1 than 2!
So we either drink to much in this household, or don't have a big enough cellar!
Around 350 bottles, we average 1 a night, some nights less, others more, then there's the wine tasting events and family celebrations that hammer it.
As I have a passive cellar (16 low in winter to 24 peak in summer)I only intend for the wines to it there for a couple of years max

Cactus wrote:Has anyone else struggled with starting a cellar and getting a good maturity curve going?

It's a very slow process for me too. Started my cellar just over 3 years ago. Been buying mainly new releases and a little back-filling from auction. It's going to take a long time to get a good maturity curve on my Cabs, Nebs and Shiraz. Thankfully Pinot and Nerello don't take as long.

Cactus wrote:Im at 9 years roughly, but started 4 years ago so right sizing vintages still needs to be done. The 2012-14 vintages are 60% of the collection. So there needs to be over drinking of this young to prevent a cliff of wine maturing all the same time.

If you want 10yr maturity and do a Qantas toaster then you need to be withdrawing 10%pa and putting the latest 10% vintage in.

Has anyone else struggled with starting a cellar and getting a good maturity curve going?

Yes, this was a problem for me, especially as a prime focus has always been cellaring wines, investing in the ones that reward or need age.

Solutions
- Find some wines you like drinking on release or soon after, and buy by the case or half case to use as 'cellar defenders'. Bleasdale Frank Potts was a useful one for us, complex from the off, and whilst it would last in the cellar, it invariably got drunk within 2-3 years.
- Buy mature / semi mature wines from auction, mates, or the shops/wineries that carry mature stock
- Don't be afraid to crack a bottle from a case or half case young. Even the most tannic wines often drink ok young 'on the fruit'. So it's useful to see what they are like before shutting down.

Don't overly worry about the wines all hitting maturity at the same time. Critic's drinking windows are (IMO) typically over-narrow. You will probably find yourself enjoying wines before their window start, or after it finishes - or both. Just keep good track of what you have in the cellar and you'll be able to manage this quite easily.

regards
Ian

Bobthebuilder wrote:Geez I'm still the only one the picked the 1-2 year category.
And it's more like 1 than 2!
So we either drink to much in this household, or don't have a big enough cellar!

Or to put it another way, the only sane/sensible person amongst us

31-50 for me. I need to stop buying and start drinking

Was sitting around 6-7 years however ever since I moved my 500 bottle offsite storage to my cellar in newly built house the timeline has dropped to 3-4 years. Great having all your wine on hand but too easy to reach for that bottle. Turning over a case a month so expensive passion.

Mike Hawkins wrote:31-50 for me. I need to stop buying and start drinking

And that would just be the Champs
Cheers
Craig

Mike. Are you planning on selling some of your wine (presumably at a profit)?

I did sell a few hundred bottles earlier this year. Mainly vintages 1998-2006 where I found many of the reds were too ripe for my palate. The plan is to drink the rest, especially older whites which will be DOA soon if I dont get my act together

I drink enough beer to keep me from going through my wine too fast. About 1/5 of my cellar is fortified too, which complicates calculations, but at it's simplest I have about 7 years based on 2 bottles per week.

Seeing as I have a very unhealthy habit (for my bank balance!) of buying wine - too long!

But I am starting to behave a bit better and buying quality over quantity these days. I have trimmed my mailing list down quite a bit and am targeting to have a bit more diversity in the cellar. I even drank a Pinot the other night (Brisbane forumites will know what I mean).

The problem for me though is that I really like aged wine and my wife prefers the younger bigger styles. We almost need 2 cellars. I am just now starting to drink wines that I really enjoy. I am drinking mainly 04's to 08's at the moment. I also have a bit of a bad habit of going long in exceptional vintages. Not so much a problem, but I am heavy on 2010 and 2012 SA reds.

Cheers
Ian

ticklenow1 wrote:The problem for me though is that I really like aged wine and my wife prefers the younger bigger styles.

Tastes can change, or exploring different wines allow you to find wines you both enjoy. It might be worth trying to work out what each of you enjoys / dislikes in more detail. e.g. Are you tannin averse, prefer something other than primary fruit, etc. Does she prefer freshness and intensity, like tannic grip etc. I'd hope that either you find the problem combinations and avoid them, or find styles that appeal to both of you.


That said, if it really does become a problem in you each liking very different wines, then it might be worth considering buying a pungo or coravin. Unlike the old vacuvin, these aim to pump inert (and rather pricey for what it is) gas into what you don't drink of the bottle. Differing views on them, but they appear to be effective for long enough to make it viable to use for days and even weeks, so you each can take a glass from your own bottles and not end up throwing the rest of the bottle away.

Ian S wrote:

ticklenow1 wrote:The problem for me though is that I really like aged wine and my wife prefers the younger bigger styles.

Tastes can change, or exploring different wines allow you to find wines you both enjoy. It might be worth trying to work out what each of you enjoys / dislikes in more detail. e.g. Are you tannin averse, prefer something other than primary fruit, etc. Does she prefer freshness and intensity, like tannic grip etc. I'd hope that either you find the problem combinations and avoid them, or find styles that appeal to both of you.


That said, if it really does become a problem in you each liking very different wines, then it might be worth considering buying a pungo or coravin. Unlike the old vacuvin, these aim to pump inert (and rather pricey for what it is) gas into what you don't drink of the bottle. Differing views on them, but they appear to be effective for long enough to make it viable to use for days and even weeks, so you each can take a glass from your own bottles and not end up throwing the rest of the bottle away.

My Coravin works a treat. I have some bottles that were first 'opened' more than 2 years ago, and they are drinking well, save for one which didn't taste right

Mike Hawkins wrote:

Ian S wrote:

ticklenow1 wrote:The problem for me though is that I really like aged wine and my wife prefers the younger bigger styles.

Tastes can change, or exploring different wines allow you to find wines you both enjoy. It might be worth trying to work out what each of you enjoys / dislikes in more detail. e.g. Are you tannin averse, prefer something other than primary fruit, etc. Does she prefer freshness and intensity, like tannic grip etc. I'd hope that either you find the problem combinations and avoid them, or find styles that appeal to both of you.


That said, if it really does become a problem in you each liking very different wines, then it might be worth considering buying a pungo or coravin. Unlike the old vacuvin, these aim to pump inert (and rather pricey for what it is) gas into what you don't drink of the bottle. Differing views on them, but they appear to be effective for long enough to make it viable to use for days and even weeks, so you each can take a glass from your own bottles and not end up throwing the rest of the bottle away.

My Coravin works a treat. I have some bottles that were first 'opened' more than 2 years ago, and they are drinking well, save for one which didn't taste right

The problem with Coravin in Australia, is that 80-90% of Australian wines are under screwcap. I did look into getting one, but once I worked out how much wine I have under screwcap, it just didn't add up.

The winesave (argon gas) is expensive but I find it pays for itself. During the winter months we definitely drink much more red wine so I do go through a couple of canisters of it. It is OK for a day or 2, possibly 3, but in my experience no more.

I am certainly buying many wines I wouldn't have thought I'd buy just a few years back. The main problem is that I am drifting away from the bigger shiraz styles that I have plenty of in the cellar, to the more medium bodied wines. For instance, I had a 2014 Shaw and Smith Shiraz last night that I know my wife wouldn't have enjoyed that much, but I loved it. I guess it's a real first world problem

Cheers
Ian

ticklenow1 wrote:The problem with Coravin in Australia, is that 80-90% of Australian wines are under screwcap. I did look into getting one, but once I worked out how much wine I have under screwcap, it just didn't add up.

I was on a website (buying wine as you do) this evening and saw some "coravin screwcaps". Don't know if that would solve your problem or how they work, but I can PM you the link if you like Ian. Or just tell you on Saturday.

Cheers

Michael

Here's an article on the Coravin Screwcap - sounds promising!

http://www.afr.com/lifestyle/food-and-w ... 719-gxelz9