The Auswine Forum

As an addendum to my most egregious pricing thread, I thought a nice side line would be the best hyperbole or prattle (polite way of saying BS) put forward by someone attempting to sell wine... I will open proceedings:

"At 120 years old, Te Mata Estate is New Zealand's oldest winery.

It is also widely regarded as one of its best too, with many critics likening the winery to some of the greatest First Growths of France, or Penfolds and Henschke from here in Australia.

In my mind, I think it is an unfair comparison. As what Te Mata Estate do is completely unique and quintessentially New Zealand in its own right.

Their fervent belief in blending, bottling and labeling small batch estate sourced wines, from some of the oldest vineyards in the Hawke's Bay, has lead to the New Zealand government designating the first-ever legally protected zone for grape-growing, known as the 'Te Mata Special Character Zone'. If only Penfolds could have its own personalised wine region!"

Perhaps unintentional, however the use of a planting date of an old-vine vineyard and allowing the inference that the wine was made with grapes from only the old vines.

Eg. Hill of Grace - only 15% of the HOG vineyard was planted in 1860, over 70% was planted 1950s or later.

Whoops.

Major bollocks there in your highlighted line.

Yes, Te Mata are a first class maker, yes Coleraine is astonishingly good, but government designated zone? Gimme a break! That whole area is magnificent, don't see why Te Mata get there own little designation.

There'll be a children's book somewhere that points out the folly of that kind of thinking

Italy has also done it a couple of times for single producer DOCs. I must admit that it would have been very astute of a winery to identify and buy all the land for a very special microclimate / terroir. Possible, but best treated with scepticism until shown otherwise.

Dalwhinnie once had a pinot & in the newsletter they said it was like a Vogue musigny 1er from memory...

via collins wrote:Whoops.

Major bollocks there in your highlighted line.

Yes, Te Mata are a first class maker, yes Coleraine is astonishingly good, but government designated zone? Gimme a break! That whole area is magnificent, don't see why Te Mata get there own little designation.

There'll be a children's book somewhere that points out the folly of that kind of thinking

Thomas the Little Wine Growing Region Which Could?

michel wrote:Dalwhinnie once had a pinot & in the newsletter they said it was like a Vogue musigny 1er from memory...

Very good.

It's not quite hyperbole or prattle, but Barossa Valley Estate seems to have sunk a huge marketing budget into a campaign ("James Halliday was quite moved") boasting a 90 point Halliday score on their 2014 shiraz. The ads seem to be splashed everywhere. Imagine the fanfare with a Halliday 91 pointer!

marsalla wrote:

michel wrote:Dalwhinnie once had a pinot & in the newsletter they said it was like a Vogue musigny 1er from memory...

Very good.

funny thing is they dont make it anymore
it was a flop

trufflequeen wrote:It's not quite hyperbole or prattle, but Barossa Valley Estate seems to have sunk a huge marketing budget into a campaign !

nice pick up, I think you'd be right. My mail suggests their parent company (who mainly produces white wine) is investing some real $$$ is this red wine house. Should see some decent reds in the future.

Does the opening remarks from the 5-10 calls I get a week ' before I go any further, the following has just picked up 2 more awards...' from sales persons, qualify for this thread?
I think if its picking up awards why is it not selling, and two why is it being offered at a price you won't see again...at least until the next phone call.

Cheers
Craig

Matt@5453 wrote:My mail suggests their parent company (who mainly produces white wine) is investing some real $$$ is this red wine house. Should see some decent reds in the future.

Perhaps, but I still miss my E&E Black Pepper Shiraz and Ebenezer Shiraz, with their lovely burgundy coloured classic labels. Beats the bright red "modern" label hands down, IMHO. Oh, and the wine used to be great - not sure about it now, I haven't tasted it but haven't they "dumbed it down" for high volume exports?

sjw_11 wrote:As an addendum to my most egregious pricing thread, I thought a nice side line would be the best hyperbole or prattle (polite way of saying BS) put forward by someone attempting to sell wine... I will open proceedings:

"At 120 years old, Te Mata Estate is New Zealand's oldest winery.

It is also widely regarded as one of its best too, with many critics likening the winery to some of the greatest First Growths of France, or Penfolds and Henschke from here in Australia.

In my mind, I think it is an unfair comparison. As what Te Mata Estate do is completely unique and quintessentially New Zealand in its own right.

Their fervent belief in blending, bottling and labeling small batch estate sourced wines, from some of the oldest vineyards in the Hawke's Bay, has lead to the New Zealand government designating the first-ever legally protected zone for grape-growing, known as the 'Te Mata Special Character Zone'. If only Penfolds could have its own personalised wine region!"

'Completely unique' ? Aargh!

michel wrote:

marsalla wrote:

michel wrote:Dalwhinnie once had a pinot & in the newsletter they said it was like a Vogue musigny 1er from memory...

Very good.

funny thing is they dont make it anymore
it was a flop

Pretty sure they still publish vogue though...

Oh Yalumba, what have you become?

“The journey, not the destination matters.”

T. S. Eliot

On 12 May 2017 Yalumba launched the most impressive wine in our 168-year history – The Caley.

Named in honour of Fred Caley Smith, grandson of Yalumba’s founder Samuel Smith. Fred was a horticulturist who had a profound impact on the development of Yalumba’s orchards and vineyards.

He is best remembered for a ground-breaking research journey he undertook in 1893 and 1894 to the USA, UK, Europe, the Middle East, Sri Lanka and India.

The 29-year-old’s detailed and poignant letters to his father, sent home every few days, were collected and kept in the Yalumba archive and over subsequent generations they have provided inspiration and encouragement for Yalumba’s outward looking international handshake.

Robert Hill-Smith – fifth-generation proprietor of Yalumba – discusses the journey…

“Over 168 years, Yalumba’s journey has been all about vision, fortitude, survival and innovation: about looking onwards and upwards. That journey has also been characterised to a large degree by humility and modesty about our many achievements.

We are now on a new path at Yalumba, emerging from an era started in 1849 and embraced by four generations of my forebears, where it was considered good manners to compliment others rather than oneself.

While I don’t expect these values will change, I think in this modern wine world we need to stand up and be counted. We should no longer hide our light under the canopy!

The Australian wine story has changed too. Aspiration has become a more important element – we are emerging from a period where we tended to cringe a little.

Today we arrive at a point – a speck on the journey – where we can put our hand on our heart and say we have sufficient self-belief to have crafted a luxurious new Australian wine with a Yalumba thumbprint.

And then we will continue to move on.

The Caley is the pinnacle of a long winemaking journey seeking excellence.

It is the result of an unwavering commitment by Yalumba to Australia’s own unique red wine style – Cabernet and Shiraz – from the Galway Clarets of the 1940s, through to The Signature and FDR 1A that started in the 60s and 70s and The Reserve that was created in the 1990s.

Sourced from Yalumba’s own Menzies Cabernet Sauvignon vineyards on Coonawarra’s famed Terra Rossa cigar strip, and two old Shiraz vineyards in the Barossa (Yalumba’s Horseshoe vineyard and the Burgemeister Linke Block), The Caley is structured for longevity.

The Caley brings together the linear elegance, firm tannins and persistent acid structure of Coonawarra Cabernet with the voluptuous, textural richness of Barossa Shiraz.

I see it as a symbol of Yalumba’s perseverance and patience – an acknowledgement of the importance of time in crafting great wine.

Robert Hill Smith

For those who would like to taste or cellar this historically significant wine, a small allocation of The Caley is now available for purchase online.

[how very lucky for us to be entitled to buy a "small allocation"... wouldn't be much flipping point publishing a press release for a product that wasn't actually for sale!]

Just a bit more fodder for Jane Ferrari to wax lyrical about on her many international jaunts

Cheers
Craig

Huge error by Yalumba. 'The Fred' would have been an awesome name. They probably could have changed an extra 3.5%, too.

Dalwhinnie would be at the top of the hyperbole tree. Every vintage the best and to compare a Pinot from not a cool region to De Vogue is absurd to the nth degree.

Langtons website states Bordeaux 2016 - the vintage of a lifetime'

Chris H wrote:Dalwhinnie would be at the top of the hyperbole tree. Every vintage the best and to compare a Pinot from not a cool region to De Vogue is absurd to the nth degree.

My serious regret is shredding the newsletter
It is a setup to fail

swirler wrote:Langtons website states Bordeaux 2016 - the vintage of a lifetime'

I don't see who or why you would buy Aust EP anymore...

Pricing is ridiculous as is the quote "Vintage of a Lifetime"... again...

Either way, if I really wanted some, I'd wait till they are actually released onto shelves here, fail to sell, then pick them up at discounted pricing.... like what happens with most/all BDX vintages here...

totally agree deejay
the quote is plain stupid
not sure if its the dummy bidding on the unreserved or the quote that makes me roll my eyes more

Regarding the Yalumba 'Caley' spiel, here are three points that stand out:

sjw_11 wrote: - The Australian wine story has changed too. Aspiration has become a more important element – we are emerging from a period where we tended to cringe a little ... Today we arrive at a point – a speck on the journey – where we can put our hand on our heart and say we have sufficient self-belief to have crafted a luxurious new Australian wine with a Yalumba thumbprint ...

- It is the result of an unwavering commitment by Yalumba to Australia’s own unique red wine style – Cabernet and Shiraz – from the Galway Clarets of the 1940s, through to The Signature and FDR 1A that started in the 60s and 70s and The Reserve that was created in the 1990s ...

- Sourced from Yalumba’s own Menzies Cabernet Sauvignon vineyards on Coonawarra’s famed Terra Rossa cigar strip, and two old Shiraz vineyards in the Barossa (Yalumba’s Horseshoe vineyard and the Burgemeister Linke Block), The Caley is structured for longevity ...

One - Yalumba now aspires to make a "luxury" wine, a wine they now believe they can make but either couldn't or wouldn't.

Two - Despite having three different Cabernet/Shiraz blends, apparently they weren't ever good enough.

Three - They're using the same quality vineyards that went into their other Cabernet/Shiraz wines but somehow the wine will now be better. I guess the winemaking will be now be better (new winemaker?). Oh, and unlike their other Cabernet/Shiraz wines, the 'Caley' will have longevity.

Sounds like, sounds like, it sounds like ...... to me.

Cheers ................. Mahmoud.

Mahmoud Ali wrote:Regarding the Yalumba 'Caley' spiel, here are three points that stand out:

sjw_11 wrote: - The Australian wine story has changed too. Aspiration has become a more important element – we are emerging from a period where we tended to cringe a little ... Today we arrive at a point – a speck on the journey – where we can put our hand on our heart and say we have sufficient self-belief to have crafted a luxurious new Australian wine with a Yalumba thumbprint ...

- It is the result of an unwavering commitment by Yalumba to Australia’s own unique red wine style – Cabernet and Shiraz – from the Galway Clarets of the 1940s, through to The Signature and FDR 1A that started in the 60s and 70s and The Reserve that was created in the 1990s ...

- Sourced from Yalumba’s own Menzies Cabernet Sauvignon vineyards on Coonawarra’s famed Terra Rossa cigar strip, and two old Shiraz vineyards in the Barossa (Yalumba’s Horseshoe vineyard and the Burgemeister Linke Block), The Caley is structured for longevity ...

One - Yalumba now aspires to make a "luxury" wine, a wine they now believe they can make but either couldn't or wouldn't.

Two - Despite having three different Cabernet/Shiraz blends, apparently they weren't ever good enough.

Three - They're using the same quality vineyards that went into their other Cabernet/Shiraz wines but somehow the wine will now be better. I guess the winemaking will be now be better (new winemaker?). Oh, and unlike their other Cabernet/Shiraz wines, the 'Caley' will have longevity.

Sounds like, sounds like, it sounds like ...... to me.

Cheers ................. Mahmoud.

Why not produce and sell a wine like this? what would you do if you had the choice and the total reigns of their strategy?

Of course they can produce any wine they want. I'm just commenting on their promotional literature which suggests the inferences that I posted above.

If I had total reign over Yalumba? I would have elevated 'The Signature' to be their top wine. It has a lovely back story of every vintage dedicated to past members of the company and instead of the same label every year where the dedication is in fine print on the back label I might change the label every year much like Mouton Rothschild. Their other Cabernet/Shiraz wines are too pedestrian for promotion, one is an over used term (The Reserve) and the other looks like the initals of Franklin Delano Roosevelt (the FDR 1A).

And one more thing, I would have continued to make their Museum Show Reserve Amontillado and Oloroso, extraordinary sherry-styled wines that I was lucky to find at Nick's in Melbourne. I drank my Amontillado (20 year-old) but still have the Oloroso (25 year-old) and consider it one of the gems in my wine collection. I am more confident of it drinking well today than I am of my 1983 Grange whose drinking window keeps moving forward (according to the latest Jeremy Oliver 2023-33).

Too bad Robert Hill-Smith chose Nick Waterman to be managing director instead of me.

Cheers ..................... Mahmoud.

PS: I've just taken a look and 'The Caley' looks hokey and contrived, like a nouveau rich aspiration. Reminds me of those living rooms with over-sized gold flecked flouncy furniture and side lamps with hanging glass crystals. Seriously.

swirler wrote:Langtons website states Bordeaux 2016 - the vintage of a lifetime'

yea, I saw that and simply shook my head. Brazen bull-dust, no-one has even gone close to giving the vintage that sort of praise. Even those two talentless desperado's, Quarin and Suckling, have not gone that far, although they have lumped huge points on every wine in a last-ditch attempt to become relevant in the international wine scene.
I have seen a lot of 2016 Bordeaux, was there not long ago, and the good are truly remarkable, but it bats as deep as the Aussie cricket side. 2015 is a far, far better vintage if you are looking for the affordable wines. I doubt it is even as good as 05, 09 and 10. So if you count 15 as also bettering it, it comes in 5th over the past 12 vintages. Vintage of a lifetime indeed

Received a cold call today from a well known wine retailer extolling an amazing deal on a "massive 92 point Halliday" wine. Had a quiet chuckle to myself and politely declined.

Just got this in an email from an Aussie based wine merchant:

"Today at 9.30am wine critic Tyson Stelzer announced his 'Australian and New Zealand Wines of the Year 2017'. By 11am, many of those wines had sold out - including this one."

I mean, really? I am almost tempted to write back to the email and ask them for any shred of evidence to underpin this claim.


By the way, for anyone interested, the Tyson Stelzer Top 100 can be found here http://tysonstelzer.com/wp-content/uplo ... 2017-1.pdf

Seems a slightly odd list. Relatively small spread of producers. Every single Grosset wine gets the nod.

sjw_11 wrote:Just got this in an email from an Aussie based wine merchant:

"Today at 9.30am wine critic Tyson Stelzer announced his 'Australian and New Zealand Wines of the Year 2017'. By 11am, many of those wines had sold out - including this one."

I mean, really? I am almost tempted to write back to the email and ask them for any shred of evidence to underpin this claim.


By the way, for anyone interested, the Tyson Stelzer Top 100 can be found here http://tysonstelzer.com/wp-content/uplo ... 2017-1.pdf

Seems a slightly odd list. Relatively small spread of producers. Every single Grosset wine gets the nod.

my sediments exactly, like you said a relative small spread of producers. Steven Pannell gets quite a mention also.

Matt@5453 wrote: ... my sediments exactly, like you said a relative small spread of producers. Steven Pannell gets quite a mention also.

An intentional pun? At the very least a happy coincidence I'd say.