The Auswine Forum

If you had to nominate one 1 wine in Australia that has the best QPR, what would it be.

Mine would be Majella Musician. I think for the price it represents unreal quality.

But would love to hear what else is out there that you all think represents really good QPR.

Cheers

Only one for me, and in a pre-existing thread many supporters
Metala LC Shiraz Cabernet...if QPR relates to price, value and whats in the bottle then this is the Nobel Prize.
Has great capacity to age.
I paid $6 for the 1986 vintage which seemed expensive at the time
However, I paid $10 for the 2014.
I am absolutely struggling to find another wine over three decades that has moved just 15 cents a year .

Cheers
Craig

Scotty vino wrote:http://forum.auswine.com.au/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=13196&hilit=QPR

Hi Scotty

Actually, this is a different thread. This is about Australia's best QPR wine. A single wine, and not necessarily a quaffer. So someone might think that Grange is the best QPR wine in Australia. Also Redwine etc. has named one, single wine, as did Craig.

So following the original post, I am going to nominate.....Wynns Coonawarra Black Label Cabernet.
Widely available.
Often had for around the $30 mark.
Vintage in vintage out, absolute quality = reliable.
Ages exceptionally well.

So in my view that is Australia's best QPR wine. Couple of other possible nominees, but this asks for the best.

Cheers

Michael

Michael McNally wrote:

Scotty vino wrote:http://forum.auswine.com.au/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=13196&hilit=QPR

Hi Scotty

Actually, this is a different thread. This is about Australia's best QPR wine. A single wine, and not necessarily a quaffer. So someone might think that Grange is the best QPR wine in Australia. Also Redwine etc. has named one, single wine, as did Craig.

So following the original post, I am going to nominate.....Wynns Coonawarra Black Label Cabernet.
Widely available.
Often had for around the $30 mark.
Vintage in vintage out, absolute quality = reliable.
Ages exceptionally well.

So in my view that is Australia's best QPR wine. Couple of other possible nominees, but this asks for the best.

Cheers

Michael

yeah it's a slight drift but when I read thru the thread there were some wines that could qualify.
E.g. Mike press Cab. It often gets spoken of as a very good QPR qualifier.

Michael McNally wrote:

Scotty vino wrote:http://forum.auswine.com.au/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=13196&hilit=QPR

Hi Scotty

Actually, this is a different thread. This is about Australia's best QPR wine. A single wine, and not necessarily a quaffer. So someone might think that Grange is the best QPR wine in Australia. Also Redwine etc. has named one, single wine, as did Craig.

So following the original post, I am going to nominate.....Wynns Coonawarra Black Label Cabernet.
Widely available.
Often had for around the $30 mark.
Vintage in vintage out, absolute quality = reliable.
Ages exceptionally well.

So in my view that is Australia's best QPR wine. Couple of other possible nominees, but this asks for the best.

Cheers

Michael

Agree, first thing that springs to mind.

Michael McNally wrote:

Scotty vino wrote:http://forum.auswine.com.au/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=13196&hilit=QPR

Hi Scotty

Actually, this is a different thread. This is about Australia's best QPR wine. A single wine, and not necessarily a quaffer. So someone might think that Grange is the best QPR wine in Australia. Also Redwine etc. has named one, single wine, as did Craig.

So following the original post, I am going to nominate.....Wynns Coonawarra Black Label Cabernet.
Widely available.
Often had for around the $30 mark.
Vintage in vintage out, absolute quality = reliable.
Ages exceptionally well.

So in my view that is Australia's best QPR wine. Couple of other possible nominees, but this asks for the best.

Cheers

Michael

^^ absolutely +1 from me, but that's probably no surprise

Honourable mention to Balnaves "The Blend"

Yes Wynns Black label CS would be my vote as well, though depending on what price (which can be stupid expensive or stupid cheap or just not available) then a number of Hunter Semillons make a strong case. Bleasdale Frank Potts has done us proud over the years as well, a wine to drink from release until the others are ready

The Wynn's Black Label Cab seems to be gathering a consensus and it makes sesnse when one triangulates quality, the ability to age, and price. I see what you mean about the price Ian, as over here in Edmonton it is creeping up and starting to move out of the QPR zone if you will. All of my purchases, till the '05 vintage, have been under C$20 so definitely in the QPR zone.

Mahmoud.

I'm going to say Marius Simpatico. Rates right up there for me and the price tag makes it a no brainer.

Would have to be:
- Wendouree Shiraz
- Tyrrells Vat 1
- one of the Rutherglen rare fortifieds

All genuine world class wines, great typicity.

Some interesting thoughts here.
QPR...Quality, Price, Ratio.

So what defines quality...taste, credibility, pedigree, longevity, record, opinion, popularity, trend, where grown, made by whom, amount produced, stand alone variety, first second or third tier in a range, and there is probably more!

And price...reasonable, outrageous, bargain, scarcity, spin, pisstake, second hand market???

So how is that all drawn into a ratio?

I agree if one ups the ante a little in terms of cost, then Wynns BL ( a wine I have never paid more than $22 for over 30 vintages) is right there.
Metala commenced in 1961, Wynns BL in 1954, both have the runs on the board in terms of longevity, pedigree, credibility. Both are getting around 100 000 dozen production...Metala a fraction more. One is a blend, one is a varietal. One is the most collected, the other probably in the region of most drunk or consumed early. One is the absolute definition of both winery and region, the other has ebbed and flowed, but those who have drunk it over 30 years know its in the slot.

So is QPR defined solely by a price bracket, and do we as consumers need to be a little forgiving, that wines such as the above two have had off years, but far more hits than misses, but have remained squarely in their respective price brackets.
Or is it defined just by quality...and in that case price is utterly irrelevant and a case could be made that there hundreds of Aussie wines that fit here.

So is there a $10-20 bracket, a $20 to 30 and say a $50 and above, where for the most part a wine with a number of features that I have mentioned in the quality section, that has sat in this price point for decades?
If so then I think a wine such as Chalambar fits in the S10-20 space and Wendouree Shiraz sort of fits...it had a decade in the S10-20 bracket, another decade in the S20-30, and had been 10 years or so around the $50 mark.
There are other excellent producers in Australia who have all the features of quality, but cannot be considered in the price section because of too much variation. If O'shea for example is still sub $200 by 2050 then yes it might qualify...ditto Edelstone, if it remained at sub $250.

I can think of a number of Rieslings that fit my parameters of QPR.

Anyway just my thoughts after slowly getting back to speed from the Easter break.
Cheers
Craig.

To put a Pinot in the mix, Hoddles Creek Estate/1er.

Tahbilk Marsanne year in year out is a star performer you can get it for under $13 and gets better every year it spends in the cellar from release to 10 years and beyond.

Hoddles Pinot is the first thing that comes to mind, both the Estate and 1er.

tarija wrote:Would have to be:
- Wendouree Shiraz
- Tyrrells Vat 1
- one of the Rutherglen rare fortifieds

All genuine world class wines, great typicity.

Nice picks esp. on the Rutherglens! World class and forgotten all too often.

Pikes Traditionale springs to mind for me. Also it's my go-to quaffer so could have also fit in the other thread.

Scotty vino wrote:I'm going to say Marius Simpatico. Rates right up there for me and the price tag makes it a no brainer.

This was in my top three also.

Cheers

Michael

tarija wrote:Would have to be:
- Wendouree Shiraz
- Tyrrells Vat 1
- one of the Rutherglen rare fortifieds

All genuine world class wines, great typicity.

Which one?

Cheers

Michael

Is it just me, or has the thread drifted? We're supposed to be talking QPR, not "world class" or top wines.

Wendouree, Vat 1 or Rutherglen Rares are definitely QPR. They deliver very well relative to price.

I'd much rather have 1 bottle of Wendouree's top wine than 2 bottles of Wynns Cab Sauv.

I agree. We take Rutherglen fortifieds for granted a bit here sometimes, because they are so cheap, and yes they are still world class, what of it?

Well priced and world class = outstanding QPR, in my books

Hmm, interesting.

As far as I'm concerned quaffers are generally inexpensive daily drinkers, wines without flaws, ready to drink, and don't need cellaring. QPR wines (Quality Price Ratio) is usually used to mean wines that offer good quality at a lower or reasonable price. They are better than quaffers and can be anything from wines ready to drink or wines to be cellared, the key being that they offer quality at a lower price than equivalent wines. Of course those with fat pocket books may elevate the concept to suit their purses but, in general, it means that it affords a quality comparable to wines that cost more. If an average person were to walk into a wine store and asked for a good QPR wine they would be pointed to more reasonably priced wines, not one of the best wines on the shelf. Often QPR can be narrowed to mean wines within their own category, like Shiraz with Shiraz, Marsanne with Marsanne, and Pinot with Pinot.

The subject of this thread is QPR wines, so from my point of view neither quaffers nor "best in class" qualify. Perhaps I'm being pedantic but Wendouree, with its availability subject to being on a subsciber list, and costing much more than wines offering similar quality, is not a QPR wine. In all the time I've spent in Australia, the only time I ever saw a Wendouree wine it was usually locked in a glass cabinet.

Tyrrell's Vat 1 is in the top tier of Australian semillon, along with the Mount Pleasant's Lovedale and Brokenwood's ILR. They are simply the best semillons from the Hunter Vally. None of them afford quality at a lower price. Vat 1 is perhaps one of the most expensive semillons from the Hunter Valley. By conventional use of the term QPR it doesn't qualify, however their Belford at half the price could, as would the HVD, provide the quality was near enough.

Again, with Rutherglen Rare we're talking about the highest tier and is the most expensive. A QPR wine from Rutherglen is a desert wine from a lower category that costs less and has a quality level near or similar to a higher tier.

Preference is one thing, but that alone does not make it a QPR wine.

Cheers ............... Mahmoud.

tarija wrote:Would have to be:
- Wendouree Shiraz
- Tyrrells Vat 1
- one of the Rutherglen rare fortifieds

All genuine world class wines, great typicity.

I was thinking either Vat 1, Grosset PH or Riesling Freak number 3 (the Clare one... I think it's 3)

Chalambar, Wynns black label and Hoddles Creek Chardy for me

wiggum wrote:Chalambar and Wynns black label for me

I'd have to agree. Back in the day I would have considered adding Wynns white label and Penfolds Bin 28 but we are talking 1990/1991 vintages now.

-- George Krashos

I wouldn't go over complicating the meaning of QPR.
Essentially it's bang for buck.
If it happens to be a/your quaffer so be it.
Wines like Wendouree and Marius might be a litle hard to come by but if you get them at a good price then
they qualify. Availability is irrelevant IMO.

It's not QACPR (Quality, Availability, Cellaring potential, Price, Ratio) just QPR....

Mine are
Wynns BL
Majella CS
Dexter Pinot
Hoddles Creek 1er Pinot
Pikes Traditonale Riesling
Blue Poles Allouran
St Hallett Blackwell
Mt Pleasant Elizabeth

Scotty vino wrote:I wouldn't go over complicating the meaning of QPR.
Essentially it's bang for buck.
If it happens to be a/your quaffer so be it.
Wines like Wendouree and Marius might be a litle hard to come by but if you get them at a good price then
they qualify. Availability is irrelevant IMO.

It's not QACPR (Quality, Availability, Cellaring potential, Price, Ratio) just QPR....

No argument from me. QPR is just that, a ratio between quality and price. Doesn't mean the quality has to be a certain level or the price a certain amount to the exclusion of others. It's a bit akin to VFM (value for money). Maybe there needs to be some track record or consistency as well, not just one particular vintage.

My mother-out-law drinks Gossips Shiraz at $3.99/b from Dans, it's QPR for her. Certainly Wynns BL qualifies by general acclaim at ~$25. Does Penfolds 1996 Block 42 Kalimna Cabernet (~$400 on secondary market) qualify as well? Maybe, because that might be QPR for some, including myself. But I guess Its natural to focus on the middle market stuff, the wines that are pretty good to excellent quality and don't cost the earth. Chalambar, Wynns BL, Metala, Hoddles Ck 1er maybe, maybe a MR cab, some Rieslings, maybe Tyrrells Vat1, we are blessed to have a large range from which to choose.

Mahmoud Ali wrote:Hmm, interesting.

The subject of this thread is QPR wines, so from my point of view neither quaffers nor "best in class" qualify. Perhaps I'm being pedantic but Wendouree, with its availability subject to being on a subsciber list, and costing much more than wines offering similar quality, is not a QPR wine. In all the time I've spent in Australia, the only time I ever saw a Wendouree wine it was usually locked in a glass cabinet.

Cheers ............... Mahmoud.

Of course QPR means different things to different people but personally, I am totally on board with Wendouree being a very high QPR wine. It has a strong reputation in both the US and UK (strangely hardly anybody seems to have heard of the Wynn's Black Label in the US) If you are on the mailing list, then from memory, the last lot of Wendourees were either $45 or $55 depending on which variety. Now compare that to the prices of the Other Australian Reds that will go 20 years in a canter, or other top class reds from the rest of the world.
A lot depends on the price you are paying... After all the RRP on the Black label is forty something dollars anyway- it's just that nobody ever pays the full tote on it. The various discounter websites or other entities that offer clearance style pricing also impact QPR for many wines
Another factor is Vintage. I have had a lot of sub $20 wines where the producer seems to have over achieved for a particular vintage but revert back to expected quality levels for subsequent vintages. I can point to individual wines that have had a superb QPR, but don't have the consistency.

Anyway, I agree with most of the wines put forward. Personally, I think Riesling is where the best value is found in Australia (although to be fair I just don't know enough about the semillon). Along with the Pikes which has already been mentioned, I reckon the O'Leary Walker Polish Hill is consistently excellent as is the Jim Barry Lodge Hill (the Watervale is also always a good QPR but I'd pay the extra couple of dollars for the Lodge Hill every time).
Hell, I could even make a strong case for the Crawford River Young Vines and the Mt Horricks, even though both of these aren't super cheap.

Scotty vino wrote:I wouldn't go over complicating the meaning of QPR.
Essentially it's bang for buck.

This.