The Auswine Forum

The recent chat about pricing at the H-crew, usual Penfolds bashing, and then the recent launch of that Yalumba Extra Super Special Reserve got me thinking about wine pricing... and then today I had an email from Yarra Yering celebrating their (deceased) founders birthday and noting he planted Viognier. Their celebratory gift being the opportunity to buy a bottle of the Carrodus Viognier for A$160/bottle...

adjective: egregious
1.
outstandingly bad; shocking

So my question, what do you think is the most egregious wine pricing you have seen? By a winery, a merchant, or indeed a restaurant wine list...

Where you thought, "right, that is just taking the Right Royal P****"??

EDIT:
Contestants for the Dubious award of Most Egregious Wine Pricing will be accepted in the following categories:
1) Worst Direct price by winery
2) Stupidest mark up by retailer/wholesaler or by auction market;
3) Worst on-premise mark-up.

I might get some of those "Gold Label" stickers made up to send to the winners... I bet that would still put them on given consumers just see a gold medal and don't read it!

That's easy. The 2004 Kalimna Block 42 Cabernet Sauvignon in one of twelve ampules for $168,000 each. Regardless of the ceremonial opening, the hand-blown glass, etc, it's still just a bottle of SA Cabernet.

I forgot the Ampules!

Maybe we should have a winner for each category? Worst Direct price by winery, worst mark up by retailer/wholesaler or by auction market, and worst pricing by a restaurant?

I have two entries for the latter...
Worst pricing by the secondary market:
Currently available from [retailer redacted by our lawyers]: 1997 Sine Qua Non Crossed Rose California £6,237.00... seriously? No, I mean, seriously??

Worst restaurant pricing:
Oxford Landing SA White Wine for equivalent $75 AUD in Café Pushkin in Moscow (plenty of honourable mentions for wines seen on lists in India ... but this still just takes the cake, particularly on the basis this is a "posh" establishment which shouldn't even be serving a $7 wine!)

A lot of those SQN wines are that way because they're so rare...they're not even being bought to drink but just to collect...

Polymer wrote:A lot of those SQN wines are that way because they're so rare...they're not even being bought to drink but just to collect...

The US is a different market, some enormous pockets of wealth have to be catered for.

No such a thing as egregious pricing for wine as it is a luxury good and there is much to choose from. The 168k ampoule - it's a drop in the water if you are rolling like Gina Rinehart. Penfolds are doing Australia a great service with products like these.

Egregious pricing on essentials (eg house pricing) is a different matter.

Sam, will no doubt weigh into this one...but still having therapy sessions with Jamie.
I think what is really funny, I got an offer from an Australian auction house broker this morning, on some 1998 wines which I have but at 300-600% more than I paid for them 15 years ago...surely storage costs and associated marketing does not cost that much.

The thing for me where so many people in all walks of like ( referring to the demographic of Mr and Mrs Joe Public here) is that people expect to get huge returns on everything. Last time I looked CPI and interest rates were in the sub 3's...and that super returns might fall anywhere between 9-15% and the share marker a bit more, or less...but some winemakers think oh, making 2, 5 or 10 times returns on cost is part for the course.

Thankfully some don't, and I have just purchased a couple of mixed cases from a second generation family owned Coonawarra producer where what I paid for the 98 vintage is only $10 less than what I paid for the 2012!!!!

Go figure, I'm happy the winemaker is happy and no one is ripped, or ripping off.
Cheers
Craig.

Egregious pricing on essentials (eg house pricing) is a different matter.

Geez I'm bumping in to a lot of Asian folks being lured into the Aussie high rise market. I don't know what to say to them?

An imperial bottle of 1992 Screaming Eagle Cabernet Sauvignon sold for US$500,000 at the 2000 Napa Valley Wine Auction. It was purchased by Chase Bailey, a former Cisco Systems executive. Money received was donated to charity, so not sure if that counts.

Egregious pricing on essentials (eg house pricing) is a different matter.

Err no... not different at all...I class wine as an essential.

Its a pity that if houses make 10% a year in capital growth, then why is this not reflected in the world of wine.
Seen plenty of people drop a healthy 7 figures on a house in my area and $100+g on a car. Guess the point is that it lasts a lot longer and generally provides a few more options and uses than a bottle of wine.

When the Sydney/ Melbourne market goes up 60% in one year like the lead off drop that Sam referred to at the commencement of this thread...then yes it will be a very different matter.


Cheers
Craig

My favourite medals on bottles are the ones for previous vintages of that wine! i.e. the wine vintage in that bottle didn't even win the 'medal'...

phillisc wrote:
Err no... not different at all...I class wine as an essential.

You won't die if you don't drink wine, you can get by without it. Millions, if not billions around the world, do. I'm sure you grew up as a child not having wine as part of your daily life?

Wine going up 10% pa, year on year - well this is the decision of the maker. Only a few very special makers can hope to pull it off and not get burned. The free market will sort out those that are taking the p*ss.

What is O'Shea worth now a bottle? The 2014 is sitting on around $250-$270 a bottle at a few retailers. For what I reckon is an $80 bottle of wine.

I reckon McWilliams will be next on the Bandwagon with a Hunter Valley Super Premium using the best 5 rows of the O'Shea vineyard sprinkled with the ashes of the great man himself. $550 a bottle.

dave vino wrote:What is O'Shea worth now a bottle? The 2014 is sitting on around $250-$270 a bottle at a few retailers. For what I reckon is an $80 bottle of wine.

I reckon McWilliams will be next on the Bandwagon with a Hunter Valley Super Premium using the best 5 rows of the O'Shea vineyard sprinkled with the ashes of the great man himself. $550 a bottle.

And don't forget McWilliams markup on Taittinger Comtes.... the wholesale price in Europe is well south of AUD100... Australia is about the only market where retail on Comtes is more than DP, LGD and DR.

phillisc wrote:Sam, will no doubt weigh into this one...but still having therapy sessions with Jamie.

Never give up Craig, never surrender... I think we are out numbered here now by Barolo and Comtes de Champagne drinkers... old-fashioned good value Aussie Shiraz is just not "cool".

I know, this is what I sound like: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LV0wTtiJygY


(just be clear- Jamie, Mike- I am only joking!)

sjw_11 wrote:Never give up Craig, never surrender... I think we are out numbered here now by Barolo and Comtes de Champagne drinkers... old-fashioned good value Aussie Shiraz is just not "cool".

"Hot" for a while but never "cool"

In amongst the obscene pricing and obscene markups, there is certainly a strong field who get away with a little over-inflation of prices.

If I were into wine for investment (I'm definitely not) I'd be looking at forum 'darlings', those wines that develop an aura of 'wonderfulness' that can be self-perpetuating. Within a few years the secondary market pricing can go through the roof, and any sane producer will accept this and put up their prices in line with this. Pretty quickly, what was an appealing bargain is now of questionable value, but there remains plenty of value out there that barely gets a mention.

JamieBahrain wrote:

Egregious pricing on essentials (eg house pricing) is a different matter.

Geez I'm bumping in to a lot of Asian folks being lured into the Aussie high rise market. I don't know what to say to them?

Tell em to run away
This bubble is gonna burst

Waiters Friend wrote:That's easy. The 2004 Kalimna Block 42 Cabernet Sauvignon in one of twelve ampules for $168,000 each. Regardless of the ceremonial opening, the hand-blown glass, etc, it's still just a bottle of SA Cabernet.

Haha ... I do have some of the 2004 in normal bottles, at considerably less than the Ampoule, well if you consider that ~$400pb is reasonable. (Quite reasonable for what it is imo, much cheaper than Grange for e.g.)

I did actually see a 2004 Ampoule in duty free shopping at Dubai airport a couple of years ago. IIRC $US187k was the asking price. Did look rather nice, more of a work of art and craftsmanship than a bottle of wine. Yeah, I know all the blah, blah about Penfolds flying a man to you anywhere in the world to open it when you want. There's only twelve of them, hardly commercial quantities. Far more a prestige (ok, wank) thing, but it does serve to set the bar higher for us all, so kudos to Penfolds for that.

Just thinking about the winery category. Dave Powell would have to be a candidate for this in his new Powell & Son venture. Two 2015 shiraz labels (Marananga and Flaxman Valley) for $750pb. He's setting the bar high. Not much track record yet, although he does have prior form at Torbreck of course.

michel wrote:

JamieBahrain wrote:

Egregious pricing on essentials (eg house pricing) is a different matter.

Geez I'm bumping in to a lot of Asian folks being lured into the Aussie high rise market. I don't know what to say to them?

Tell em to run away
This bubble is gonna burst

Don't you just hate when your little bit of secret paradise is crowded out by those entering only because it's the latest fashion. Let's hope they discover wine is potentially carcinogenic and Bin 389 returns to more realistical prices ie $25.

Carl

mjs wrote:Just thinking about the winery category. Dave Powell would have to be a candidate for this in his new Powell & Son venture. Two 2015 shiraz labels (Marananga and Flaxman Valley) for $750pb. He's setting the bar high. Not much track record yet, although he does have prior form at Torbreck of course.

I do hope the problems that led to his acrimonious exit from Torbreck have been solved. It does sound like he needs a strong person he can respect to manage all but the making of the wine.

Chuck wrote:

michel wrote:

JamieBahrain wrote:
Geez I'm bumping in to a lot of Asian folks being lured into the Aussie high rise market. I don't know what to say to them?

Tell em to run away
This bubble is gonna burst

Don't you just hate when your little bit of secret paradise is crowded out by those entering only because it's the latest fashion. Let's hope they discover wine is potentially carcinogenic and Bin 389 returns to more realistical prices ie $25.

Carl

Whilst that would certainly help it to sell, I'm not convinced I would buy at that price now. My tastes have diverged from the SA favourites of the Aussie critics, and in a rather bizarre way I'm glad that Penfolds jacked the prices up, because I'd now have more of some wines that don't do it for me. There are always other wines out there, and sometimes they are more to your tastes than the wines you stop buying

Ian S wrote:

Chuck wrote:

michel wrote:
Tell em to run away
This bubble is gonna burst

Don't you just hate when your little bit of secret paradise is crowded out by those entering only because it's the latest fashion. Let's hope they discover wine is potentially carcinogenic and Bin 389 returns to more realistical prices ie $25.

Carl

Whilst that would certainly help it to sell, I'm not convinced I would buy at that price now. My tastes have diverged from the SA favourites of the Aussie critics, and in a rather bizarre way I'm glad that Penfolds jacked the prices up, because I'd now have more of some wines that don't do it for me. There are always other wines out there, and sometimes they are more to your tastes than the wines you stop buying

For my palate Penfolds is mundane oaky & generic
There are so many wonderful makers deserving your attention imo

Bringing this topic back to ground, I thought the pricing of 1996 Penfolds Bin 28 at Rockpool Bar and Grill was fairly outrageous at $150 pb when it was sold for around $15 pb.

rooman wrote:Bringing this topic back to ground, I thought the pricing of 1996 Penfolds Bin 28 at Rockpool Bar and Grill was fairly outrageous at $150 pb when it was sold for around $15 pb.

Gulp

mjs wrote:Just thinking about the winery category. Dave Powell would have to be a candidate for this in his new Powell & Son venture. Two 2015 shiraz labels (Marananga and Flaxman Valley) for $750pb. He's setting the bar high. Not much track record yet, although he does have prior form at Torbreck of course.

Can't accuse Mr. Powell of lacking self-confidence.

Mark Carrington wrote:

mjs wrote:Just thinking about the winery category. Dave Powell would have to be a candidate for this in his new Powell & Son venture. Two 2015 shiraz labels (Marananga and Flaxman Valley) for $750pb. He's setting the bar high. Not much track record yet, although he does have prior form at Torbreck of course.

Can't accuse Mr. Powell of lacking self-confidence.

Legal fees
Etc

michel wrote:

rooman wrote:Bringing this topic back to ground, I thought the pricing of 1996 Penfolds Bin 28 at Rockpool Bar and Grill was fairly outrageous at $150 pb when it was sold for around $15 pb.

Gulp

Yeah it was actually one of those come to Jesus moments where I really realised just how obscene the market up in restaurants can be and why I really try and only go to BYO. The dinner last week at the Chinta Kechil was a perfect example of how you can still dine out and have a great meal without breaking the bank if you can BYO.

Mark

rooman wrote:

michel wrote:

rooman wrote:Bringing this topic back to ground, I thought the pricing of 1996 Penfolds Bin 28 at Rockpool Bar and Grill was fairly outrageous at $150 pb when it was sold for around $15 pb.

Gulp

Yeah it was actually one of those come to Jesus moments where I really realised just how obscene the market up in restaurants can be and why I really try and only go to BYO. The dinner last week at the Chinta Kechil was a perfect example of how you can still dine out and have a great meal without breaking the bank if you can BYO.

Mark

Dry River aromatic would be a great option

At Tonka Indian in Melbourne we had psychotic loud music & servings you needed a microscope to find & a wine recommended (gruner veltliner) at a ludicrous price of 24 dollars per glass!

michel wrote:

rooman wrote:

michel wrote:
Gulp

Yeah it was actually one of those come to Jesus moments where I really realised just how obscene the market up in restaurants can be and why I really try and only go to BYO.[/quote

A little off topic but related. We have been eating and drinking our way around Tasmania for a few weeks and are very pleased at the very low mark up on local wines. Say around 40% for the good stuff. When I asked the common answer is the low rents allow some flexibility.

Carl

PS I'm trying hard but I still don't get Pinot Noir particularly the expensive stuff.

Chuck wrote:

michel wrote:

rooman wrote:

Yeah it was actually one of those come to Jesus moments where I really realised just how obscene the market up in restaurants can be and why I really try and only go to BYO.[/quote

A little off topic but related. We have been eating and drinking our way around Tasmania for a few weeks and are very pleased at the very low mark up on local wines. Say around 40% for the good stuff. When I asked the common answer is the low rents allow some flexibility.

Carl

PS I'm trying hard but I still don't get Pinot Noir particularly the expensive stuff.

Awesome I suggest you save your money and avoid it