The Auswine Forum

One of the lads was heading overseas to work, so we had a quick 'ring around' to see who was available on the night and hit up Golden Century for an impromptu tasting. We had 7 of us including one non-drinker.

Was a fun night with some fantastic wines. Lots of Blind Wine action going on with lots of laughter and banter going during each one.

Unfortunately I got a double whammy with corked wines, I was looking forward to seeing him off with a typical Aussie shiraz in the 2005 Rockford SVS Flaxman Valley Shiraz, but it was putrid with TCA, as soon as I pulled the cork I could smell it. After all the unboxing, unwrapping, "I'll show those Old world wines..." it was gone. Puts a real dampener on your evening, meh.



I think this was all the wine...
2008 Moet & Chandon Champagne
1983 Trimbach Cuvee Frederic Emile Riesling
1978 Seppelt Old Keppoch Sylvaner TK58/78 – Corked
20?? Donnhoff Spatlese
2013 PYCM Meursault Gouttes d'Or 1er
2013 Coche-Dury Meursault
2013 Roulot Meusault Charmes 1er
1996 Louis Jadot Chambolle-Musigny
2004 Bruno Giacosa Barbaresco Riserva Asili
2006 Ridge Monte Bello
1996 Rockford Cabernet Sauvignon
1996 Lindemans Limestone Ridge Shiraz Cabernet
2005 Rockford SVS Flaxman Valley Shiraz - Corked
1993 Tokajbor - Bene Pincészet Tokaji Aszú 6 Puttonyos

Great night, only took a few pics and some random observations...just no room on the 8-pax tables with all the glasses, plates, lazy Susan, etc, etc. to take pics and notes.

And Monghead...taking his blind tastings into a new art form , working on people, creating uncertainty, making you double guess, playing the participants, playing the region...the man is evil

Coche was fantastic, although I think more preferred the Roulot? And the PYCM was great, big, bold, and sassy. I preferred the Coche blind, for me it just had this wow x-factor about it like the Ramonet Monty did I had recently.

The Monte Bello was superb, would never have picked it. Real purity of fruit and brightness. Need to get some of this in the cellar to put down.

I had the Barbaresco as a Rhone, with Monghead sitting next to me saying 'are you sure you don't know what it is Dave, are you sure, come on...' I'm thinking I've had it before, I've had it before, it's got a bit of funk, fairly soft, bit of tannin...shit shit...lolol and he is looking at me all disappointed that I still haven't pinged it...I think man takes great delight in watching me squirm.

We also had a nicely aged 96 Jadot Chambolle and a 83 Trimbach which had a nice tartness and acidity.

The 96 Limestone Ridge was showing well and the 96 Rockford was still hanging in there was a good contrast, the cabernet in the Limestone Ridge seems to provide more backbone/weight as a whole over the Rockford.

The Tokaji was a real eye opener for me, as I've not had too many of them. This was a 1993 (6 Puttonyos) and the acid balance was fantastic. It is at the other spectrum compared to say dY'quem which is light, lemon and floral and dances around the palate, this is weightier leaning towards the honey/orange end of the spectrum yet has a really refreshing acid drive on the palate.

And most important of all, we got to see our good mate Polymer off in style - all the best and safe travels.

dave vino wrote:
Unfortunately I got a double whammy with corked wines, I was looking forward to seeing him off with a typical Aussie shiraz in the 2005 Rockford SVS Flaxman Valley Shiraz, but it was putrid with TCA, as soon as I pulled the cork I could smell it. After all the unboxing, unwrapping, "I'll show those Old world wines..." it was gone. Puts a real dampener on your evening, meh.

... but run a similar tasting in the future and there will be so few Aussie wines that were bottled under cork, that the roles will be reversed. At that point you are given permission to take the righteous moral high ground ..."I can't believe the old world still puts up with TCA "

Thanks Ian Ironically I'd just got back from the Barossa and was in the Stonewallers room and they told me all about these new corks they were using which were all but guaranteed to be taint free. Obviously not used in this vintage, but there is hope for the future!

dave vino wrote:Thanks Ian Ironically I'd just got back from the Barossa and was in the Stonewallers room and they told me all about these new corks they were using which were all but guaranteed to be taint free. Obviously not used in this vintage, but there is hope for the future!

Unfortunately the spin from the cork supplier ingnores the facts on their own website which states that the corks are guaranteed tca free "above .005ppm". Some people have thresholds under this limit so TCA will still be found in the corks supplied. I will post a link when i can.

Cheers

Despite Dave's poor run (sorry Dave), great night of fun wines and fun banter, thanks for writing it up Dave, and thanks to all the generous contributions, especially the stunning Meursaults from Len and Kev! Although the PYCM faced some uphill battle, in the end after 2 hours in the glass the reduction had completely blown off and it was gorgeous, lemony and buttery. Shame about the 2 corked wines, especially the SVS.

crusty2 wrote:Unfortunately the spin from the cork supplier ingnores the facts on their own website which states that the corks are guaranteed tca free "above .005ppm". Some people have thresholds under this limit so TCA will still be found in the corks supplied. I will post a link when i can.

If they genuinely "guarantee" it then does that mean the cork supplier has left themselves liable to cover the full replacement costs of any bottle sealed with their corks which was well over that threshold? The TCA in this particularly bottle of SVS was putrid to everyone who put a nose to it (and I have a relatively high threshold compared to most).

Tidy tidy night
Great white burg makers!
Any more description of the Giacosa
Any perfume?

I didn't feel like it had typical rose and tar..in fact a lot of us were guessing Burgundy...tannins were there but fine and I was in Beaune at first but it just had the lightness that made me switch to a GC Nuits...wrong either way ....Given whose red it was and why he brought this (and who), it sort of went down as thought...Great acidity and overall mouthfeel. Reddish fruits...very approachable and quite feminine...great wine...

It was a bit of redemption night for White Burgundy given our bad luck as of late...but they were 13s...

Same about the Seppelt and Rockford...The Seppelt seemed like it would've been drinking just fine if not for the TCA...out of everything I just expected it to be oxidized to hell but it wasn't...it was just TCA. Shame about the Rockford SVS as well..it would've been a good foil to the other wines on the night..

Polymer wrote:I didn't feel like it had typical rose and tar..in fact a lot of us were guessing Burgundy...tannins were there but fine and I was in Beaune at first but it just had the lightness that made me switch to a GC Nuits...wrong either way ....Given whose red it was and why he brought this (and who), it sort of went down as thought...Great acidity and overall mouthfeel. Reddish fruits...very approachable and quite feminine...great wine...

It was a bit of redemption night for White Burgundy given our bad luck as of late...but they were 13s...

Same about the Seppelt and Rockford...The Seppelt seemed like it would've been drinking just fine if not for the TCA...out of everything I just expected it to be oxidized to hell but it wasn't...it was just TCA. Shame about the Rockford SVS as well..it would've been a good foil to the other wines on the night..

I love feminine barolo ....

Links to Rockfords' cork supplier of NDtech corks

http://www.amorimcork.com/en/products/ndtech/

notice the many * qualifications

The high-precision screening technology can detect any cork with more than 0.5 nanograms of TCA per litre* (parts per trillion), which will be automatically removed from the supply chain. As a result, all corks processed via NDtech are non-detectable TCA guaranteed*.

*releasable TCA content below the 0.5 ng/L quantification limit;

Even if I can't taste the TCA at those really low levels, it will still dull the wine and mute the flavours. But tradition, singlemindedness and target market mindsets are powerful forces against change.

Anyway, I was sad to miss this, some wonderful wines and the usual generosity. What a white burg flight!

Happy travels Polymer, until next time!

Well 0.5ng/L should be undetectable if the generally accepted human rate is around 8 times more. (my bolding)

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/jib.230/full

TCA odour is defined as mouldy, damp cardboard [4, 5] and it is very easily recognized because of its low sensory threshold, which is from 0.03 to 1–2 ng/L in water and 4 ng/L in a white wine for trained assessors [6, 7]. Other compounds have been found in corked wine and their corks [8]: 2,3,4,6-tetrachloroanisole with a perception threshold of 4 ng/L in water and 20 ng/L in wine with a mouldy odour; 1-octen-3-ol with a perception threshold of 20000 ng/L in white wine with a mushroom, metallic odour; 1-octen-3-one with a perception threshold of 20 ng/L in white wine with a mushroom, metallic odour; guaiacol with a perception threshold of 20000 ng/L in wine and smoky, phenol, medicinal odours; geosmin, which originates from contaminated grapes, with a perception threshold of 1–10 ng/L in water and 25 ng/L in white wine and earthy, mouldy and dirty odours; and 2-methylisoborneol with a perception threshold of 30 ng/L in wine and earthy and mushroom odours.

But surely even if I can't smell or taste TCA, I expect even low levels would still affect the wine negatively??

TiggerK wrote:But surely even if I can't smell or taste TCA, I expect even low levels would still affect the wine negatively??

In 2003 the Australian Wine Research Institute did some experiments and concluded that even at TCA levels of 1-2ng/L the fruit aroma in a wine could be suppressed by up to 50%.

Thanks Ozzie, so 0.5ng is going to be 10/20/30% muted then.... so much for a perfect cork

Just imagine how many thousands of potentially good or great wines we've all had over the years with undetectable low level TCA where the wine just felt a bit dull, closed, muted, dumb phase, reticent, boring..... sigh.

TiggerK wrote:Thanks Ozzie, so 0.5ng is going to be 10/20/30% muted then.... so much for a perfect cork

Just imagine how many thousands of potentially good or great wines we've all had over the years with undetectable low level TCA where the wine just felt a bit dull, closed, muted, dumb phase, reticent, boring..... sigh.

Very true
I vaguely remember reading somewhere, an article by Whitey or JH that TCA can be detected in 1 part in 300 trillion...like one single grape from a whole vineyard...anyway have drunk a few corked wines over the years which at the time, I though were reasonable, until the next bloody bottle of same wine drank better.

Cheers
Craig.

The Giacosa is very young ?

TiggerK wrote:Thanks Ozzie, so 0.5ng is going to be 10/20/30% muted then.... so much for a perfect cork

Just imagine how many thousands of potentially good or great wines we've all had over the years with undetectable low level TCA where the wine just felt a bit dull, closed, muted, dumb phase, reticent, boring..... sigh.

Not sure if the relationship between the level of TCA and corresponding muted aromas/palate is a linear one. Nevertheless, it seems that even minuscule amounts of TCA will have a negative effect one way or another.

JamieBahrain wrote:The Giacosa is very young ?

It was..relatively..but it was quite approachable...

Rockford rang up today and will be sending me out a replacement. So all good, will find an excuse to drink it asap.