The Auswine Forum

Both two of the greatest shiraz wines in the world.

I just bought 6 x 2013 Chave Hermitage for less than the new $225 AUD release price for 2014 Mt Edelstone. Sure, Hong Kong is tax free, but I will be watching carefully, as Henschke HofG and Mt Ed don't appear on the international scene on release at much less than Australia.

From what I'm seeing abroad, I suggest the Australian premium wine makers take a deep breath and maintain or improve quality and maintain pricing. If they are ripping off the domestic market, beware!






CHV2013R75HERMI CHAVE, Hermitage Rouge 2013 6 BT ASAP 1,200 7,200.00HKD

Dang, is there no 2013 Mt Edelstone? It's not in CT. I had hoped to pick up a couple as a birth year wine

2014 is being released before 2013. As to pricing, i think Mt Ed is now outside my range. I stretched myself to buy previously. Their right, im just personally dissapointed.

A quick google got me the 2013 Chave Hermitage for $499.99 here in Oz.
The Mt Ed is sitting around the 225 mark as you suggest.

$225 for Mt Ed are you serious?? LOLOLOL

Easy pass for the likes of Rockford, Wendouree, Clonakilla, etc.

rens wrote:A quick google got me the 2013 Chave Hermitage for $499.99 here in Oz.
The Mt Ed is sitting around the 225 mark as you suggest.

My point being on the international scene, Chave is coming up cheaper now. Benchmark international wine. I reckon they are ahead of themselves.

Cactus wrote:2014 is being released before 2013

Any idea why that is?

dave vino wrote:$225 for Mt Ed are you serious?? LOLOLOL

Wow! I completely missed that point. Buy up what's left! Does anyone know what joining their wine club does to the pricing?

JamieBahrain wrote:My point being on the international scene, Chave is coming up cheaper now. Benchmark international wine. I reckon they are ahead of themselves.

Jamie, what's Chave like? I remember Steven came out saying that they wanted to have the most expensive Australian wine. Maybe that is rubbing off onto some of their other wines too? Leave that Keyneton and Johann's alone!

dave vino wrote:$225 for Mt Ed are you serious?? LOLOLOL

Easy pass for the likes of Rockford, Wendouree, Clonakilla, etc.

When I got the Henschke email I nearly threw my phone in disgust. That's a 60%+ increase on an all time great release - 2012. I own more Mt Ed than any other Aussie wine, and I think it is a superb wine in most years, but I'm done with the new releases. I've always refrained from bashing Penfolds on their pricing policies, but Stephen and Prue, seriously? $225?

That's a killer price on the Chave Hermitage...

But I agree, they need to take a long look at what they're pricing their stuff at..It has become laughable really..

Man , i received there email a couple weeks ago but didnt take any notice of the price!. Thats unreal i wasnt expecting that. Id rather cross the road and get a bottle of John Angas's hutton vale shiraz at $60. 100 metres away. And mt ed cuttings.. im glad ive just swapped some 98's for recent 12's.

$375 ive recenty purchased 13' chaves.
Extra $150 .. why not ?

I always get the impression that Henschke align their pricing to Penfolds. As Pennies ratchet up their prices, so do Henschke.

I can sort of see the logic with HOG, that they want to position it as the SV alternative to Grange, of equivalent 'prestige'. I'm not so sure the rippling down of such price escalation works, but the proof will be in their sales figures and how many bottles go unsold.

Redav wrote:

JamieBahrain wrote:My point being on the international scene, Chave is coming up cheaper now. Benchmark international wine. I reckon they are ahead of themselves.

Jamie, what's Chave like? I remember Steven came out saying that they wanted to have the most expensive Australian wine. Maybe that is rubbing off onto some of their other wines too? Leave that Keyneton and Johann's alone!

Chave is amazing with a little age and is often a bit of an epiphany for Aussie shiraz drinkers. It is a great measure of our shiraz wines and though they are different, it makes you realize, I think, how great our best wines are.

As an long term Henschke fan, starting out when Keyneton was $18 a bottle, but now baulking paying the $40 plus for that wine, it sort of dawned on me the other day that Keyneton probably is pretty good value still.

JamieBahrain wrote:

Redav wrote:

JamieBahrain wrote:My point being on the international scene, Chave is coming up cheaper now. Benchmark international wine. I reckon they are ahead of themselves.

Jamie, what's Chave like? I remember Steven came out saying that they wanted to have the most expensive Australian wine. Maybe that is rubbing off onto some of their other wines too? Leave that Keyneton and Johann's alone!

Chave is amazing with a little age and is often a bit of an epiphany for Aussie shiraz drinkers. It is a great measure of our shiraz wines and though they are different, it makes you realize, I think, how great our best wines are.

As an long term Henschke fan, starting out when Keyneton was $18 a bottle, but now baulking paying the $40 plus for that wine, it sort of dawned on me the other day that Keyneton probably is pretty good value still.

Chave Hermitage is still the best wine I've ever had. I can't put into words how good it is and the one we drank was "only" 8 years old. I would just love to try one at 20 years. It truly is amazing. If I could get it for the prices that Jamie pays, it would be a no brainer buy for me and I never spend that on single bottles.

Mt Edelstone is amazing but at current prices I can see much better value elsewhere. Sad really that they are pricing it out of range for many loyal drinkers. It will be interesting to see how it sells.

Cheers
Ian

Disappointing Henschke. Fine, it is your prerogative to market your wines however I always differentiated yourselves from Pennies from the point of view you didn't blatantly price gouge. As mentioned by others, there are many other well priced wines to turn to.

Well, i guess the upside is that wines like penfolds and other twe brands (wynns et al) the aged stuff now seems very cheap.
John Riddoch especially!

I reckon local sales of Henschke will slow at those prices, it it does make me wonder if there's huge offshore demand, and that may be behind the price hikes ?

Rossco wrote:Well, i guess the upside is that wines like penfolds and other twe brands (wynns et al) the aged stuff now seems very cheap.
John Riddoch especially!

Rossco
I do not consider JR to be cheap. Last 10 vintages with RRPs of $100-150. Getting 2 3-packs of the '13 at $65 a bottle was fantastic but Riddoch will be next on the hit list...sure the bean counters at TWE would like to put up the price.
As for what Henschke are doing...the marketing department are brain dead. I could not afford my boys birth year HOGs after they quadrupled in price...and even more annoyed when I received a written reply from Stephen stating that he just makes the wine and "someone else sorts the prices"...becoming more like Gago every day.
Gee it really makes me appreciate the Robert O'Callaghan's and Michael Waugh's of the world plus a few others who operate on merit and credibility not bullshit!
Cheers
Craig

phillisc wrote:

Rossco wrote:and even more annoyed when I received a written reply from Stephen stating that he just makes the wine and "someone else sorts the prices"...becoming more like Gago every day.
Gee it really makes me appreciate the Robert O'Callaghan's and Michael Waugh's of the world plus a few others who operate on merit and credibility not bullshit!
Cheers
Craig

You serious? Stephen passed the buck as such re pricing? Unbelievable.

Having just passed through the Penfolds Disneyland retail set-up that Tullamarine Airport has become, I'd say the pricing directive is loud and clear.

And in today's retail landscape, can't blame whoever is setting the Henschke prices for what we are seeing. Don't like it, don't endorse it, but there is a reality in play. For now anyway.

phillisc wrote:

Rossco wrote:Well, i guess the upside is that wines like penfolds and other twe brands (wynns et al) the aged stuff now seems very cheap.
John Riddoch especially!

Rossco
I do not consider JR to be cheap. Last 10 vintages with RRPs of $100-150. Getting 2 3-packs of the '13 at $65 a bottle was fantastic but Riddoch will be next on the hit list...sure the bean counters at TWE would like to put up the price.
As for what Henschke are doing...the marketing department are brain dead. I could not afford my boys birth year HOGs after they quadrupled in price...and even more annoyed when I received a written reply from Stephen stating that he just makes the wine and "someone else sorts the prices"...becoming more like Gago every day.
Gee it really makes me appreciate the Robert O'Callaghan's and Michael Waugh's of the world plus a few others who operate on merit and credibility not bullshit!
Cheers
Craig

Oh well if the marketing department are brain dead - it is Stephen's daughter anyhow so of course he wouldn't have any influence on that would he?

http://www.henschke.com.au/henschke-fam ... eneration/

Mike Hawkins wrote:

dave vino wrote:$225 for Mt Ed are you serious?? LOLOLOL

Easy pass for the likes of Rockford, Wendouree, Clonakilla, etc.

When I got the Henschke email I nearly threw my phone in disgust. That's a 60%+ increase on an all time great release - 2012. I own more Mt Ed than any other Aussie wine, and I think it is a superb wine in most years, but I'm done with the new releases. I've always refrained from bashing Penfolds on their pricing policies, but Stephen and Prue, seriously? $225?

+ 1. Couldn't agree more. But it seems the more expensive it is the more people desire the label. I find the label does not impart any extra flavour. I stopped buying their wines a long time ago, sold what I had and bought other excellent wines at a fraction of the price.

Carl

phillisc wrote:

Rossco wrote:Rossco
I do not consider JR to be cheap. Last 10 vintages with RRPs of $100-150. Getting 2 3-packs of the '13 at $65 a bottle was fantastic but Riddoch will be next on the hit list...sure the bean counters at TWE would like to put up the price.
As for what Henschke are doing...the marketing department are brain dead. I could not afford my boys birth year HOGs after they quadrupled in price...and even more annoyed when I received a written reply from Stephen stating that he just makes the wine and "someone else sorts the prices"...becoming more like Gago every day.
Gee it really makes me appreciate the Robert O'Callaghan's and Michael Waugh's of the world plus a few others who operate on merit and credibility not bullshit!
Cheers
Craig

I was referring more to the secondary market of these wines, rather than retail 10 years ago.

Case in point last year i bought two perfect examples of 1988 JR for about $80ish each. Absolutley glorious and was my 2016 wine of the year.

My point is, why buy henschke current release @ $220+ when secondary has exceptional examples of 10+ year old for half the price (yes i understand the increased risk of spoilage ect)

No doubt these increases are to do with foreign demand, but we have all seen how fickle that can be. Has nearly ruined a few companies.

Agree it also makes the likes of rockford/wendouree ect even more admirable and legendary.

I can only guess the secondary market pricing will bump up for Mt Edelstone. I could not believe how cheap the wine was being sold for, with provenance history, on Wickmans a few years ago.

I'm trying to find the article, but I recall an interview with Chav and his consternation at the stagnating prices for great Hermitage.

JamieBahrain wrote:

I'm trying to find the article, but I recall an interview with Chav and his consternation at the stagnating prices for great Hermitage.

Daresay he gets a pretty fair return on his Hermitage...really, sometimes wine people seem quite out of touch with reality.

Alternatively, nothing is stopping him from pricing his wines like Petrus - go for it!

If you had to pick one of the better recent vintages of Hermitage, what would you go for? 12/13/14 seem to be reasonably consistent in the eyes of the critics, whereas 10 had a fair bit of love. Thoughts?

Running the number through my spreadsheet, the Edelstone hikes seem to be pretty much in line with Oz 'aspirational' wines.
I bought the 1993 for about $36 as I recall. If they're selling the 2013 for $225, 20 vintages later, that's a 10% rise, year-on-year, for 20 years.
Which is a similar % to Bin 389, which escalated from $13 to $75 over the same period.
Another wine I don't buy!
GG

Diddy wrote:If you had to pick one of the better recent vintages of Hermitage, what would you go for? 12/13/14 seem to be reasonably consistent in the eyes of the critics, whereas 10 had a fair bit of love. Thoughts?

I'd go 2010 any day, followed by 2012.

GraemeG wrote:Running the number through my spreadsheet, the Edelstone hikes seem to be pretty much in line with Oz 'aspirational' wines.
I bought the 1993 for about $36 as I recall. If they're selling the 2013 for $225, 20 vintages later, that's a 10% rise, year-on-year, for 20 years.
Which is a similar % to Bin 389, which escalated from $13 to $75 over the same period.
Another wine I don't buy!
GG

I bought the 1991 at CD for $14.45, so the price hikes are eye watering

dave vino wrote:$225 for Mt Ed are you serious?? LOLOLOL

Easy pass for the likes of Rockford, Wendouree, Clonakilla, etc.

100% agreed. Looks like big H is following Penny's trail, good luck to them.
Still remember buying 1996 & 1998 HoG for $180 back in 2004.
No wonder why I stop buying anything from big H just like I did with Peny long ago.