The Auswine Forum

I was perusing the latest Wickman auction and shed a tear at some amazing Aussie wines and the condition they are in. Credit to the auction house in their efforts to document cellaring provenance incidentally. But Wow! You'd have to be a mug to have weeping Hill of Grace and Mt Edelstones from such outstanding vintages as 1990. Ragged looking Three Rivers. Haven't even looked at the Penfolds line-up.

I'm looking at wines I still have in the cellar from the mid 90's that are below the neck yet mine are same as when purchased. That's a lot of seepage and sends a shiver down my spine with the secondary market.

Why do people buy premium wine and cellar it in appalling conditions? Yep, I know they are kidding themselves because when they draw the cork they praise the wine in all its staleness, funk and cooked porty notes and actually kid themselves that these are the characteristics of old wines. Or, they just buy to show off some level of sophistication to all who can see or listen, in preference to the well known storage elementals of light, heat, vibration. Unbelievable! Mugs.

Is this issue really just limited to Aussie collectors? I reckon it happens all over the world, although with our warm climate the issue would be exacerbated compared with some countries.

I know someone that buys a bottle of Grange for each of his two children each and every year. He's currently got a 20 year vertical for each of them. He stores them under the floorboards of his house.

Ozzie W wrote:Is this issue really just limited to Aussie collectors? I reckon it happens all over the world, although with our warm climate the issue would be exacerbated compared with some countries.

I know someone that buys a bottle of Grange for each of his two children each and every year. He's currently got a 20 year vertical for each of them. He stores them under the floorboards of his house.

Storage costs too much.
seriously though if you are going to blow 15-20K on wine then surely you need to put it into a temp controlled environment which works out about a buck a bottle per year.

I think that's what I'm struggling with. The cooked wines- and yes, VHS, into the neck is most often cooked wine despite the bullshit from industry experts- are not cheapies or medium range, they often represent icons.

Heat, light, humidity, vibration? If you know what's expensive wine you know this cellaring maxim surely?

Not that i want to wade too far. But for those that buy old wine from auction at least a cork shows u clues as to its storage. I prefer sc, just raising.

Yes many are mugs and don't know any better based on their past experiences. But many are not as pedantic as we wine snobs and plenty of wines not stored optimally can sometimes still show well, and if 'they' like the wine that's all that matters and who are we to judge without having tasted the same wine with and without so-called optimal storage.

Lots of buts (I'm in favour of good storage), and here's another... But sending these poorly stored wines to auction is the real issue at hand here, and though many are deceased estates (so partially excusable), others that are flipping the remains of poorly stored cases should really think again. I've seen too many posts saying something along the likes of... "I'll buy that case and if a few are oxidised or vinegar, I'll send the rest of the case back to auction". Arrgghhh, but that's consumerism, greed, bargain hunting and caveat emptor for you.

On a slightly related note, I've had quite a few wines well down into the neck that have been excellent. Usually very old though (50+ years) so those levels are often mostly natural attrition. There's no such thing as good old wines, just good old bottles.

FWIW Under the floorboards is one of the more sensible places (I've heard enough tales of wine being put in the attic!). Obviously for most of you this is still going to be quite hot, but if ~20C then I'm not convinced it's that daft. Indeed other may think us daft for buying and running expensive wine fridges.

Grange does seem to be a wine that is bought by people who aren't wine enthusiasts, but just want to own and eventually drink the most iconic Australian wine. Thankfully it is robust, as it must get the worst treatment of any wine on the Langton list.

As for flipping dodgy cases off to auction, I don't see it said much here or on other wine forums. I'm sure it does happen, especially with those that see wine as part investment. The market always used to make allowance for this, with 11 bottle cases selling for significantly less than full 12 bottle cases. Maybe that was a factor when I picked up 23 bottles of a SV Barbaresco from a good, but not especially famous producer. Just over £4 a bottle which was daft, and there wasn't a faulty one in the whole lot. Sometimes a wine is just not to someone's taste, as I reckon this must have been.

More recently it has disappointed me how many 3, 4, 5 bottle lots of white burgundy have turned up at auction. It looks very much as if the owner lined their bottles up and sent the darker ones off to auction. Now that is sleazy.

Ian S wrote:More recently it has disappointed me how many 3, 4, 5 bottle lots of white burgundy have turned up at auction. It looks very much as if the owner lined their bottles up and sent the darker ones off to auction. Now that is sleazy.

It is also sleazy that we consumers are not generally able to get recompense for premoxed white burgundies, and many Burgundy vignerons don't accept, at least publically, there is a major problem.

Absolutely agreed - I buy some Maconnais wines these days but that's it. They don't give a shit, I don't give a shit.

On Aussie storage conditions, looking at the sexy kitchen design magazines my wife likes so much, I'm always amazed where the built in wine storage racks are conveniently placed over the new mega large gas stoves.

rooman wrote:On Aussie storage conditions, looking at the sexy kitchen design magazines my wife likes so much, I'm always amazed where the built in wine storage racks are conveniently placed over the new mega large gas stoves.

Don't get me started. I cringe when I see those modern glass wine cellars which are a centre piece placed in living areas, surrounded by bright lights and usually without proper temperature control!!!

Those installs would use LED lights (no heat), and UV coated glass you'd think? They would also have proper cooling aircons going to them (they'd want to for the $30-40K they are worth)

I love seeing professionally installed wine fridges in kitchens
next to the oven ........

Interested to hear people's thoughts on glass walled cellars. Assuming temp/humidity is dealt with and the glass is UV coated, is the expose to light going to have any effect?

Adrian.

Gonna get a bit technical here. There's a name for the fault whereby light causes adverse chemical reactions in a wine - it's called "light strike". Light strike is caused primarily by light at wavelengths of 340nm (UV), 380nm (UV) and 440nm (Blue). There's quite a bit of research on this topic, not just for wine but also for beer.

If you put a clear UV coating on glass, only wavelengths up to 400nm can be blocked. You'd have to tint the glass to block blue light. That's why UV filtering glasses have coloured lenses.

Adrian wrote:Interested to hear people's thoughts on glass walled cellars. Assuming temp/humidity is dealt with and the glass is UV coated, is the expose to light going to have any effect?

Adrian.

Good article, https://www.awri.com.au/wp-content/uploads/TN09.pdf

More in depth aka tl;dr
http://www.wrap.org.uk/sites/files/wrap ... May'08.pdf

Seems the consensus is UV is harmful, although green and brown bottles are less affected than clear ones. LED doesn't give off heat and UV whereas Halogen and Fluoro do both so they are no-no's. (compared to direct sunlight the Fluoro UV output is minuscule) although they say the wines are affected with only 18hours close proximity to a Fluoro. Which should have you checking out your local wine retailer setups with more scrutiny.

Thanks dave vino. That article in the second link is really good. I quote from page 2: "As some of these wavelengths are in the visible part of the spectrum, a completely transparent product that blocks out all harmful radiation would thus not seem technically feasible". The moral of the story - if you care about your wines, store them in the dark.

I'm way ahead of the curve. I only buy my wines in earthenware style bottles

Wine makers have long known that light can damage their product. The simplest - and most effective - solution would be to sell wine in opaque containers. However, when other issues including customer appeal are considered, glass has become the material of choice for the majority of wines sold.

dave vino wrote:I'm way ahead of the curve. I only buy my wines in earthenware style bottles

Personally Ive always preferred cardboard.I find the risk of spoilage in casks is close to zero.

Mark

I'm pretty sure this is the label where the bloke's eyes follow you around the room. Gary W, you are an expert on this aren't you?

My ex-wife kept her half of the wine collection in boxes in a loft that got very hot in the summer. Most of the wines I have tried from it are better than the ones I have had at home from my temperature controlled storage..Weird.

Was always skeptical about vibration, but this tweet shows what can happen

https://twitter.com/veilingsylvies/stat ... 8295450624

If they were the same wines mychurch, you may be onto something? The ones you cellared properly versus the loft wines?

I have witnessed many old world drinkers who will complement a new world wine if its had a baking, and struggle with beautiful, well stored examples with freshness. I think perhaps they were weened on baked wine and its way more common than we realize- especially the Asian market!

Same wines. Strangest was a 66 Riesling Spatlese. A Friend also had Some bottels of This - we split 4 cases at auction years ago - and the bottle from my Ex's loft last year was the best version of it. A few others were old sweet Germans, so maybe the sugar protects. Her 98 Wirra Wirra Chook Block Shiraz was good as well though. She did keep the wine in those polystyrene wine removal boxes, and I presume these protect the wine a bit.

Nice ! Professionally cellared Craiglee versus an auction buy claiming to be professionally cellared.

mychurch wrote: She did keep the wine in those polystyrene wine removal boxes, and I presume these protect the wine a bit.

Very much so - wonderful insulators.