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Not surprised about the $850. I predict the 2014 will crack $1000. I am more surprised and a bit disappointed about the $90 for the 389.

Rocky wrote:Not surprised about the $850. I predict the 2014 will crack $1000. I am more surprised and a bit disappointed about the $90 for the 389.

Agreed Rocky, although me thinks that you could slash a 1/3 off that...will be interesting where 13 St Henri and Magill sit.

Cheers
Craig

You can buy well aged Grange with good provenance in the secondary market for great vintages - 1990, 1991, 1996, 1998 etc for about 50% of this cost ex buyers premium. I'll take 2 ready to drink or for laying down any day. The market always right TWE. TWE, please listen to the market although some with too much money who love being pandered to by TWE will probably get caught up in the hype.

Carl

389 at $90. It's a $50 a best.

I have to agree the prices are beyond reason. There are plenty of good wines in the range, but nothing that even approaches good value.

Heading back 25 years though, and I recall myself being amazed that I felt £25 for Grange was pretty decent value. The scale has unfortunately tipped and it will take a significant 'price re-alignment' before I'm a buyer anywhere in the range.

I saw the Mt Langi Ghiran Shiraz being advertised at $110 now, and the O'Shea at $180. What planet are these people living on? Places like Langtons must be rubbing their hands together.

I've got no problem with the price. Wouldn't be surprised to see it hit $1,000 in future years. Grange is viewed as the best icon wine in Australia. Whether it is actually the best wine or not is irrelevant. It's peoples perceptions.

Think of how much a bottle of first growth Bordeaux costs. It's insane.

I definitely won't be buying any. I echo the sentiment that you can get well stored bottles with good provenance on the secondary market for half the price. And could easily buy 10-15 bottles of some bottles of wine that is equally good quality, just doesn't have icon status.

Penfolds is being cleverly marketed to the rising middle/upper class in China. That's where all the production is going. I don't know anyone who buys Grange, let alone buys the Bin 389. The last 389 I bought was the 2010 vintage for $55 a bottle delivered. And that's where I think its worth. I don't drink any Penfolds anymore. There is simply so much wine out there at a better value for money price point.

In my book, Grange is no longer a "premium" wine. It's a "luxury" wine.

The price of 389 has dropped in UK for recently released '13. Grange prices continue their inexorable climb.
Just succumbed to buying St Henri '10 after resisting for 2 years. The price paid was painful but I needed a bottle. Chucked in a Marananga '10 to soften the blow.
Penfolds embargo firmly back in place.

Redwine&Rum wrote:I've got no problem with the price. Wouldn't be surprised to see it hit $1,000 in future years. Grange is viewed as the best icon wine in Australia. Whether it is actually the best wine or not is irrelevant. It's peoples perceptions.

Think of how much a bottle of first growth Bordeaux costs. It's insane.

I definitely won't be buying any. I echo the sentiment that you can get well stored bottles with good provenance on the secondary market for half the price. And could easily buy 10-15 bottles of some bottles of wine that is equally good quality, just doesn't have icon status.

Penfolds is being cleverly marketed to the rising middle/upper class in China. That's where all the production is going. I don't know anyone who buys Grange, let alone buys the Bin 389. The last 389 I bought was the 2010 vintage for $55 a bottle delivered. And that's where I think its worth. I don't drink any Penfolds anymore. There is simply so much wine out there at a better value for money price point.

Couldn't have agreed more. Last Penfolds I bought was back in 2004 when they had an exceptionally good deal At Uncle Dan's where 2001 Bin 128 & 28 was for $14.99 . I think RP was above $30 at the time.

Sydney residential real estate is going up at about the same rate as Grange...if not more.

I'd be buying Sydney real estate as an investment before I would be buying Grange at the moment.

Ian S wrote:I have to agree the prices are beyond reason. There are plenty of good wines in the range, but nothing that even approaches good value.

Heading back 25 years though, and I recall myself being amazed that I felt £25 for Grange was pretty decent value. The scale has unfortunately tipped and it will take a significant 'price re-alignment' before I'm a buyer anywhere in the range.

Those were the days. In 1993 I bought 12 bottles of the 1988 Grange from Sainsbury's supermarket in London for £35 (about A$70 at the time) and remember being very excited! It was their entire stock, it was in two wooden six packs and they broke the axle of our shopping trolley on the way home.

Brodie

I like the nostalgia. Single bottle purchases of 84 and 85 Granges in the early 90s, and lashing out the princely sum of $72 for the former. Admittedly, $72 was the most I had ever spent on a bottle of wine to date. I haven't bought Grange on release since the 1990 vintage.

Grange isn't an investment surely ? Looks like a big loser in the secondary market

Ozzie W wrote:In my book, Grange is no longer a "premium" wine. It's a "luxury" wine.

Dear Aussie

Thank you. Our work here is done.

Marketing
Treasury Wine Estates

Just out of interest to all all those who think the current RRP of grange is completely OTT...and I am certainly one of them.

The Noon mailer arrived yesterday, prices unchanged from 2015...sent off for a couple of mixed dozen...love what Rae and Drew do...my order came in at about 3/4 the price for a single bottle of Pennies finest???

What would you prefer?

Cheers
Craig

phillisc wrote:Just out of interest to all all those who think the current RRP of grange is completely OTT...and I am certainly one of them.

The Noon mailer arrived yesterday, prices unchanged from 2015...sent off for a couple of mixed dozen...love what Rae and Drew do...my order came in at about 3/4 the price for a single bottle of Pennies finest???

What would you prefer?

Cheers
Craig

Well said Craig and I agree. Although I do find my palate slowly changing to avoid the bigger alcohol wines though. I probably will only order the Eclipse this year as I find I'm not enjoying the Reserve Shiraz and Cabernet as much as I used to. Might just get a couple to fill out a dozen if necessary. Drew is one of the true gentlemen of the wine industry.

As for Penfolds pricing, if you have the money who cares. I don't so I don't buy. It is getting ridiculous now but as I said last year during a similar thread, if they are selling at the prices they are asking Penfolds will keep putting the prices up. If people stop buying, prices will adjust. I suspect that a large amount of Grange goes overseas to Asia anyway.

Cheers
Ian

Luxury wines are like flying first class. One can fly economy and still end up at the same destination at the end...however that is not the point.

On reflection, the world does need super-expensive wines like Grange - there are many, many super-wealthy people in the world, and the world benefits from having their money trickling through the economy instead of sitting idly in bank accounts. So, Penfolds is doing the Australian economy a great service!

OK. Grange I can sort of understand. But the increases have been just as high for the other wines. At this rate we'll be paying $300 for bin 389 in a decade.

Those that indulge in a Grange kalimotxo just prove that it's become nothing more than a luxury item to show off. This is exactly what TWE wants and they have succeeded. A generation ago, Grange was still expensive but it was still relatively affordable. Today, the majority of true wine lovers that want to buy Grange have been completely priced out of the market.

Agree with most of the sentiments here. Penfolds wines do not represent good value for money, and there are far better wines for a lower cost. I have not bought any Penfolds wines since the 1998 vintage.

The other thing I have a bit of trouble with is that you have at least 10 years and quite possibly 30, before it can be enjoyed. Whereas (after a quick search) you can pick up the '83, '91, '96, '98 or '04 from Dan's already aged (quite nicely) for less than the . From Langtons, the price range is less.
But I can understand TWE's position. If they don't put a premium on this wine, then it simply disappears to China, never to be seen again.

Cloth Ears wrote:But I can understand TWE's position. If they don't put a premium on this wine, then it simply disappears to China, never to be seen again.

Not sure i agree. The underlying reason must be pure greed.

Rocky wrote:

Cloth Ears wrote:But I can understand TWE's position. If they don't put a premium on this wine, then it simply disappears to China, never to be seen again.

Not sure i agree. The underlying reason must be pure greed.

Me neither. And agreed.

Mahmoud.

Rocky wrote:

Cloth Ears wrote:But I can understand TWE's position. If they don't put a premium on this wine, then it simply disappears to China, never to be seen again.

Not sure i agree. The underlying reason must be pure greed.

They're called shareholders

Cloth Ears wrote:The other thing I have a bit of trouble with is that you have at least 10 years and quite possibly 30, before it can be enjoyed. Whereas (after a quick search) you can pick up the '83, '91, '96, '98 or '04 from Dan's already aged (quite nicely) for less than the . From Langtons, the price range is less.

Thats the whole point - new releases are partially used to clean the backlog of older vintages. Happens a lot if you look at Bdx threads. Years like 2000/2005 were outrageously priced and a lot of collectors either ignored them or bought modestly. When the 09/10/15 top wines came out, suddenly these outrageous prices didnt look so bad and so the wines begin to sell...

WAwineguy wrote:They're called shareholders

Was there (or is there still) a time when being a TWE shareholder provided added benefits?

Rocky wrote:

Cloth Ears wrote:But I can understand TWE's position. If they don't put a premium on this wine, then it simply disappears to China, never to be seen again.

Not sure i agree. The underlying reason must be pure greed.

If it's a sellers market, you price it to what the market will bear. IIRC, some of the recent iPhones (or iPods) were about half the price in Aus compare to Japan or China. So, all of a sudden, none available over here.
So, pretty much, if they think they can sell at that price, good on them. For myself, I wouldn't be buying it at half the price in the current vintage. There's lots of 'not the top vintage' years around that you can get for less than half at auction. You can drink them now. And they're not a bad drop (and they'll impress most people who drink the label and not the contents). That being said, I don't Grange at all since the '90 started selling for over $100. But I'd be partial to a '63 if I get a small lottery win ($1600 should suffice).