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I respect the guy but not his book or wine column- he is irrelevant for me
This book is still too expensive at this price!

Agree.
Just think, it has been over 2 months and not a single thread re the latest string of 98/99 pointers from his annual book.

I've never really paid too much attention to his scores and obviously aware he scores on the higher side. There are a couple of new release wines that I have been watching closely and have just seen today his scores for them (compared to others) it's ridiculous!!

Yeah but just think of the thousands of people choosing to buy xxx wine at OMG 97 Halliday points over yyy wine at a mere 94 pointy halliday point points. Every day, time after time, ooh look, this wine is on special and it has a gold medal from the Kalgoorlie wine show and it's 96 Hallidays!! It's a Must Buy.

We are not the focus because we actually think about wine more than to say 'this is nice' or 'Hmm, I don't really like this'. There is a market for everything, fair play to them.

Agree with all the above. Take Hallidays wine scores with a grain of salt, and deduct 1-3 points everytime.

98-100 should be reserved for aged wines; wines that are "complete".

Rampant score inflation is an unfortunate state of affairs, and is especially prevalent in Australia due to the link between high scores and greater public exposure at the retail level.

Also, if wine critics mark too harshly then they risk getting their supply cut off from the winery/importer - and this can happen to some of the most influential critics (eg. Antonio Galloni - probably the most influential wine writer in the world for Italian wine - was supposedly banned from Bruno Giacosa for panning the 2008 wines). No supply => nothing to review => no readership and subscriptions. As a result, many wine critics are selective and decline to write reviews if the tasted wine is sub-standard, which is understandable albeit disappointing from a consumer's perspective - especially if the consumer pays a fee to access the critic's reviews.

tarija wrote:Rampant score inflation is an unfortunate state of affairs, and is especially prevalent in Australia due to the link between high scores and greater public exposure at the retail level.

Also, if wine critics mark too harshly then they risk getting their supply cut off from the winery/importer - and this can happen to some of the most influential critics (eg. Antonio Galloni - probably the most influential wine writer in the world for Italian wine - was supposedly banned from Bruno Giacosa for panning the 2008 wines). No supply => nothing to review => no readership and subscriptions. As a result, many wine critics are selective and decline to write reviews if the tasted wine is sub-standard, which is understandable albeit disappointing from a consumer's perspective - especially if the consumer pays a fee to access the critic's reviews.

yes yes
that is the crux of the matter

tarija wrote:Rampant score inflation is an unfortunate state of affairs, and is especially prevalent in Australia due to the link between high scores and greater public exposure at the retail level.

Also, if wine critics mark too harshly then they risk getting their supply cut off from the winery/importer - and this can happen to some of the most influential critics (eg. Antonio Galloni - probably the most influential wine writer in the world for Italian wine - was supposedly banned from Bruno Giacosa for panning the 2008 wines). No supply => nothing to review => no readership and subscriptions. As a result, many wine critics are selective and decline to write reviews if the tasted wine is sub-standard, which is understandable albeit disappointing from a consumer's perspective - especially if the consumer pays a fee to access the critic's reviews.

Didn't this happen to Jeremy Oliver and Penfolds. Was involved in the rewards of patience reviews, then said 2000 Grange should never have been released and has not done a rewards of patience since-Happy to be corrected if I'm wrong.

I agree with all the sentiments above. However, I think Halliday's book/scores/tasting notes are a useful resource for wine noobs. I certainly found it invaluable when I was getting into wine.

One point which I wasn't aware of but in hindsight shouldn't have surprised me was what a Margaret River owner told me about 18 months ago. He mentioned that for Halliday to score his wine it costs him as the owner a fee of $150 per wine plus of course he needs to provide the wines.

Ozzie W wrote:I agree with all the sentiments above. However, I think Halliday's book/scores/tasting notes are a useful resource for wine noobs. I certainly found it invaluable when I was getting into wine.

I agree...

I think his palate is quite good and his descriptors are quite accurate, just his points are way out of wack and I mostly ignore them now. He doesn't rate sh!t wine really good though usually, so that helps for me anyway...

I buy the book every year since I got into wine, mostly cause it looks good on the shelf. Although I do refer to some of his older books when looking at auction options sometimes.

deejay81 wrote:

Ozzie W wrote:
I buy the book every year since I got into wine, mostly cause it looks good on the shelf.

brilliant

I'd prefer it if i knew that a critic paid for the wine they scored. Would certainly remove most of the doubt for me. I realise a downside to this is that some wines would never get reviewed. Would be nice to break the symbiotic relationship between critics and producers.

Don't read his scores, just his comments. And I borrow it from the library so I don't have to pay for it either. I reckon it's a good read and I sometimes pick-up interesting tidbits about wines I wouldn't have expected (Anderson 2008 Petit Verdot was one from this year).

I've been banned by a number of wineries. It does not stop me from buying the wines, if not reviewed by my colleagues. I also use a bit of my wine income to buy samples. No big deal. And it's tax deductible!

Gary W wrote:I've been banned by a number of wineries. It does not stop me from buying the wines, if not reviewed by my colleagues. I also use a bit of my wine income to buy samples. No big deal. And it's tax deductible!

Thanks for your input Gary - any chance you can name these wineries?

If wineries are happy to take the benefits from a positive review, then they should also have the grace to accept when they have put out a subpar product.

Most do (take the rough with the smooth). It's only my opinion on a wine, not a definitive verdict.

Rocky wrote:One point which I wasn't aware of but in hindsight shouldn't have surprised me was what a Margaret River owner told me about 18 months ago. He mentioned that for Halliday to score his wine it costs him as the owner a fee of $150 per wine plus of course he needs to provide the wines.

So let's do the maths. If he tastes on average 10 wines per day (I think that's being conservative) that's around half a million bucks a year.

He seems to have succumbed to rampant capitalism maybe to prop up losses in the hard copy annual and possibly the online version. Last year I was offered a $50 wine as an incentive to renew my membership which I think costs less than that.

Having said that I still use his web site as a general guide but knock off around 3-4 points. It's all relative.

Carl

Gary W wrote:I've been banned by a number of wineries.

Me too, but different reasons I suspect. Or maybe not

I have never been banned from a winery... Challenge accepted.

No problem whatsoever with critics receiving free bottles for review - anything up to 2 bottles of each wine (one as a reserve for cork sealed-wines in case of TCA). It's not bribery, or if it is, then cellar door tastings for you and I are as well! I'd rather they tasted and scored blind, but wrote the TN up with label open, so they could add their experience with that label into the mix. That's another debate though.

I'm not at all comfortable with a charge per wine 'scored'. That's definitely in the realm of 'pay to play' and if that's the case with Halliday's book, then it does explain point creep - you wouldn't want to piss off your paying customers.

Halliday used to be a great resource for winery addresses and for the list of wines produced in the earlier days of the internet where online data wasn't as rich. He did a lot for Australian wine and is certainly a decent wine writer. Also offering a laugh with varying combinations of silk/iron fist/glove in his TNs! I always preferred Jeremy Oliver's approach though, from having more opinion available on prior vintages, to an at times brave style of offering harsh criticism / tough love when merited. I especially remember the discomfort that came across when he criticised Henschke for some wines at the turn of the century, when it was clear he held them in high regard. Halliday also didn't endear himself to me with his complete ignorance of Nebbiolo, a grape he didn't understand or want to understand, nor his conflict of interest with Southcorp.

regards
Ian

Gary W wrote:I've been banned by a number of wineries. It does not stop me from buying the wines, if not reviewed by my colleagues. I also use a bit of my wine income to buy samples. No big deal. And it's tax deductible!

HI Gary, by banned do you mean they dont send you samples?
cheers

I too have historically found Halliday's book quite helpful when visiting wine regions - easy to build a shortlist of producers who consistently make good plonk.

Cant say I have paid any attention to his tasting notes (and especially not scores) for a very long time. This is purely a matter of palate alignment however.

marsalla wrote:

Gary W wrote:I've been banned by a number of wineries. It does not stop me from buying the wines, if not reviewed by my colleagues. I also use a bit of my wine income to buy samples. No big deal. And it's tax deductible!

HI Gary, by banned do you mean they dont send you samples?
cheers

Well, yes. Banned is a bit melodramatic I guess. I mean used to, then stopped on back of less than glowing review. Perhaps some of them think I'm an idiot? Who knows. Life goes on. So much wine out there!

They would probaby prefer no review (and hence no bad publicity) than potentially a less than glowing review. Low risk strategy but loses the potential upside of a good review.

I think any winery that knocks back the opportunity to get real feedback from people that taste and rate wine for a living are missing a step. If a wine is poor, then they need to hear that feedback. In the hope that it fuels improvement in their wine making process moving forward.

Heard of cellar palate ? Some people get too close to their wines and take constructive criticism like you are criticising their child.

Ian, don't get how cellar door tastings are bribery for the average punter (apologies if i have read you wrong here). I don't make a living writing about wine or being an expert taster/reviewer, for example, someone like Gary or Mike. Within reason the average punter can say what they like, I have and the winery has banned me...idiots, don't they realise that comment or criticism is not across the board, but might just relate to a specific vintage or release? Anyway if I want to buy their stuff...ever heard of the internet?

I think there needs to be more disclosure, in recent editions of the book there have been advertisements from large wineries. Clearly they remunerate in some form, why not just be upfront about it, like political donations. I don't give a shit what the monetary amount is, but transparency suggests that in the front page of the book there could be a statement, "I have commercial agreements with the following wineries".

Cheers
Craig

As a lot of familes and friends know me to be a bit of a cork dork the Halliday book
is an easy gift. Not to stingy a gift and a good read on the throne if nothing else.
I find it to be a great data base and reference guide.
I often pick it up after a cellar door visit and compare the notes.
I would say 50% of the time I can relate/understand the reviews
and the other 50% I'm not sure I went to the same winery.

For the price and disregarding the inflated scores it's a great collated tome of winery/vino info for the coin.