The Auswine Forum

Over the last few nights I've looked at the 99 & 2001. I was going to do an individual post to see what people thought of the Art Series cabernet which seems to have underwhelmed many and then coincidentally, reference was made to the Aussie Mouton comparisons.

I didn't decant the wines and and night's end the remnants gassed for preservation.

Leeuwin Estate Art Series Cabernet Sauvignon 1999- Loaded with ripe plums in barnyard-poo which cleans up with aeration toward cassis-menthol, darker plums and sweet cedar wood in support. Black olive layered palate, with smoke and more plums, with the petit verdot poking out toward the end upsetting the initial evenness. Long fine finish with a cool menthol burn. Day two the fruit darkens and the palate smoothens; the menthol/capsicum bite tames as well.

89pts

Leeuwin Estate Art Series Cabernet Sauvignon 2001- Very unevolved violet-dark fruits, cedar wood with savory spices. Even spread across the palate, caramel-cocoa , sweetens up and the black olive texture enters the play. Good length and a sound 4 square wine.

Day two some odd notes appear-rusty metal, citrus and black pepper. Finish is loud with astringency and menthol/capsicum and occasional bretty metal- it does settle toward a nice wine though it was never going to be Mouton .

90pts







97 POINTS: 2012 ART SERIES CABERNET SAUVIGNON "This is the Mouton-Rothschild of Australia. Incredibly complex aromas of black currants, spice, cigar box and berry. Full body, fantastic palate with round and polished tannins. Goes for minutes. Better in 2017" JAMES SUCKLING jamessuckling.com

Often underwhelming Cabernet (except for some vintages) actually sounds pretty similar to Mouton.

camw wrote:Often underwhelming Cabernet (except for some vintages) actually sounds pretty similar to Mouton.

Nice come back Cam
Very over rated wine
Can be dire

It's never really been on my Margaret River cabernet radar.

For mine its a 5th growth

"Aussie Mouton" hey. Well both wines have a new piece of art on their labels each year I suppose.

Obviously, Leeuwin copied the Mouton label, both are cabernet-based.

Other than that, nothing in common.

Next.

Ok, so let's select our Margaret River Cab Sauv top 10...
In no particular order I'd go with:

Moss Wood
Woodlands
Cape Mentelle

Ok....what other straight cabs ???

Voyager have their CM as more their flagship, as do Pierro, Brookland Estate, and a stack of others...

Stella Bella Serie Luminosa ?
Leeuwin Est Art Series
Woody Nook (suspect this might be a blend)
Flametree ??
Laurance ??

Anyone care to add to this list ??

Probably even those wines that only declare cabernet on the label have merlot/malbec/petit verdot/other blended in there at least in certain vintages if not all. That 15% rule kind of makes 'varietal' wine a bit of a misnomer.

I tend to think of one category - cabernet & bordeaux blends or

Probably even those wines that only declare cabernet on the label have merlot/malbec/petit verdot/other blended in there at least in certain vintages if not all.

The 15% rule kind of makes 'varietal' wine a bit of a misnomer.

I tend to think of cabernet & bordeaux blends as one category.

Leeuwin Cabernet can be absolutely superb, but it genuinely needs 20 years to show it's stuff. Incredibly age-worthy wine, which in itself is a rarity amongst Australian wines.
However, not in the same post code as Mouton. (no Australian cabernet-based wines are anywhere near that level, but apart from the ridiculously-priced Bin 707, none are anywhere near the price either!!)

cuttlefish wrote:Ok, so let's select our Margaret River Cab Sauv top 10...
In no particular order I'd go with:

Moss Wood
Woodlands
Cape Mentelle

Ok....what other straight cabs ???

Voyager have their CM as more their flagship, as do Pierro, Brookland Estate, and a stack of others...

Stella Bella Serie Luminosa ?
Leeuwin Est Art Series
Woody Nook (suspect this might be a blend)
Flametree ??
Laurance ??

Anyone care to add to this list ??

I have never had a moss wood that blows me away and thought 'ok now i get it'. To be fair though none of the moss wood's i tried have ever been 90' vintages, so maye they were too young.

Same as LEAS cab. Never had a 'wine moment' with the cab.... Chardonnay oh absolutely...pretty much every bottle, but never the cab.

Love Vasse. Both the straight cab and heytesbury.

Agree with Cam and Michel. Mouton is over-rated. Can be hard and ungenerous.

Rossco wrote:

cuttlefish wrote:Ok, so let's select our Margaret River Cab Sauv top 10...
In no particular order I'd go with:

Moss Wood
Woodlands
Cape Mentelle

Ok....what other straight cabs ???

Voyager have their CM as more their flagship, as do Pierro, Brookland Estate, and a stack of others...

Stella Bella Serie Luminosa ?
Leeuwin Est Art Series
Woody Nook (suspect this might be a blend)
Flametree ??
Laurance ??

Anyone care to add to this list ??

I have never had a moss wood that blows me away and thought 'ok now i get it'. To be fair though none of the moss wood's i tried have ever been 90' vintages, so maye they were too young.

Same as LEAS cab. Never had a 'wine moment' with the cab.... Chardonnay oh absolutely...pretty much every bottle, but never the cab.

Love Vasse. Both the straight cab and heytesbury.

In some ways, the region may need more time for the great producers to become apparent (outside of a very small existing group of exceptional producers)

So, we'll broaden the criteria to include cab blends, then, and might be able to include Voyager CM, and Vasse Felix Heytesbury. Any others that are worthy of the top 10 ?

Chris H wrote:Agree with Cam and Michel. Mouton is over-rated. Can be hard and ungenerous.

I'm not a Bordeaux guy but I've had found mature Mouton pretty good. Maybe it needs time? I don't take notes on my Bordeaux dinners so it may just be a take it or leave it attitude to that makes the wines welcoming.

Felix? Mouton? What's your experience? The everyday wine of the ruling class- they mix it with coke up your way!

And Art Series cab? The Bordelaise ain't shy of brett! Now I'd put my house on the 1999 & 2000 Art Series Cabernet both having a whack!

Leeuwin is a little further South than the Wilyabrup nexus which produces some fine cabernets. A little cooler where it is sited. Always a little too austere for me but ages well if you like the style. However the 2004 was a breakthrough wine - warmer year and I suspect a change in approach. Haven't had too many of the recent vintages as have moved away from WA.

As for top Cabernets I would say (in no particular order)

Mosswood
Cape Mentelle
Woodlands
Cullen (but can leave me cold)
Vasse Felix

Quite a few knocking on the door e.g. Xanadu but need more consistency or need several more vintages at the level they have reached to knock those over. Some would say Voyager should be in the mix but it often leaves me cold as well.

cheers

Carl

You know, I just can't agree with the Leeuwin bashing. Often in a blind line up of French & Oz cab's this has fared very well. I think it just needs age, at least 15 years on a great vintage, before it dhows it's best.
I have never seen Brett in the wine, if it was there, by definition, it must be in all their other wines, including the Chardonnay.

JamieBahrain wrote:

Chris H wrote:Agree with Cam and Michel. Mouton is over-rated. Can be hard and ungenerous.

I'm not a Bordeaux guy but I've had found mature Mouton pretty good. Maybe it needs time? I don't take notes on my Bordeaux dinners so it may just be a take it or leave it attitude to that makes the wines welcoming.

Felix? Mouton? What's your experience? The everyday wine of the ruling class- they mix it with coke up your way!

And Art Series cab? The Bordelaise ain't shy of brett! Now I'd put my house on the 1999 & 2000 Art Series Cabernet both having a whack!

Mouton needs 30 years to show it's full assets, even in average years, and more than a decade in poor years. My experience in Oz is that is is drunk too young 99% of times.
Mouton 86 still a little young, Mouton 82 just coming into it's own.
Not a wine I buy, although I got a case of the 2014 for my new baby boy.
I guess it has a similarity with Leeuwin Cab in that both need a long, long time to develop, and both are therefore often misunderstood. The 92 Leeuwin is absolutely fabulous right now, but it did take 20 years to get there!!!!
Haha, Jamie, the heady days of Mouton, or even more incredibly, Petrus with ice or, God help us, mineral water/coke/red bull are now behind us in China. The recession is in full swing, the stock market diving more often than Joel Selwood, and the wine trade a veritable mortuary. The Bordelaise are in for a terrible shock with their 2015 EP campaign. Guys I know that even three months ago were boasting of spending seven figure sums on the 2015's have headed for the hills big time!!! The French better hope the Honkies are in better shape!!!

Nearer Mouton-Cadet than Mouton-Rothschild

Was reading this old article by Jeremy Oliver today and found this on topic reference:

Ever since its youth the 1989 Howard Park has reminded me of Mouton-Rothschild, and it continues to do so. There’s more overt smoky mocha and chocolate oak-derived influence about this vintage than any other 18.6, drink 2001-2009. Its complex dusty, meaty and cedary aromas are as evocative of fine Pauillac as its supple, silky and fractionally herbal palate, which continues to become more savoury and earthy as it just begins to dry out.

Not sure when the article was written...

Rory wrote:You know, I just can't agree with the Leeuwin bashing. Often in a blind line up of French & Oz cab's this has fared very well. I think it just needs age, at least 15 years on a great vintage, before it dhows it's best.
I have never seen Brett in the wine, if it was there, by definition, it must be in all their other wines, including the Chardonnay.

Rory

Yes, there seem to be some off-handed comments on Art Series cabernet but I have actually learnt a bit about the wine from those with experience with the style. This is why the forums great and I wish they were more extensive as reviewers and critics rarely seem to comment with long term drinking experience.

So I can see with the 2001 now, how it is a 15 year + wine. The 2001 was pretty unyielding and may still un-peel some over a few more years.

As a drinker and outsider to the style, I can see it being polarizing. Firstly, it needing a long cellar is not widely advertised. Secondly, it does have some greenness. And lastly, there are some bretty/ bacterial traits - unmistakable barnyard-poo and a gritty metallic bite both of which subsided enough to make the wine very acceptable. Out of interest, why would brett be apparent in the chardonnay?

NIce timing on the Leeuwin cabernet drinking Jamie. I was at a WA cabernet tasting this week. 2010 vs 2011 vintages. A lot of usual players there; Cullen, Moss Wood, Woodlands, Cape Mentelle, Houghton Gladstones and Jack Mann (2011 only), Vasse Felix Heytesbury, Cherubino (2011), Cloudburst (2011) and Leeuwin. There were a few rings in too, Wynns John Riddoch 2010, Penfolds Bin 169 2010. All wines served blind in their vintage bracket.

The 2011 Leeuwin came up an absolute treat. Would have been in most peoples top few wines of tasting. I was very pleasantly surprised. I did not pick it as Leeuwin at all but thoroughly enjoyed it. Plenty of fruit, nice ripeness, good acidity and fantastic length, will age a treat. I've tried most Leeuwin Cabernets from about 1995 I reckon and this was the most complete package I remember in their cab. I do agree they age well, even the few I've had from 1980's have held up nicely, but they rarely hit any great highs. The 2010 was no slouch either, nice richness in flavour whilst still being light on its feet.

My concern is that they lack a bit of consistency with respect to style. Sometimes their style is a bit close to green, that menthol that you mention, and other times quite ripe. As a fair weather, irregular drinker of their cabernet I find you might find a vintage that you like on release and then one or two that don't so it falls off the radar a bit. I'll be hunting out some more 2011 and keen to try the 2012 now too.

Cheers
TA

TA - what about some of the other cabs in that tasting. What seemed good? What not?

A year (almost two now I checked) or so ago we did an offline and the 2004 made an appearance. It was gorgeous.
Michael's tasting notes:

2004 Leeuwin Estate Art Series Cabernet. Margaret River. Quite tight on first look this relaxed in the glass and took on power and length with some gravelly notes, eucalypt and tar. Beautiful tannin. The last taste of this went on and on. I would wait for another few years if I only had one or two left (unfortunately I have none!). Beautiful wine thanks Nick

and Ians:

2004 Leeuwin Estate Art Series Cabernet. Margaret River. My pick of the "Westies" by some margin. Excellent wine that will develop into something exceptional. Medium bodied and amazing balance. Needs time (as almost all the wines did). 4/5

It came runner up to the wirra wirra for the group that night, but was my WOTN

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=14011&p=116538&hilit=sprout+wirra+wirra#p116538

mjs wrote:TA - what about some of the other cabs in that tasting. What seemed good? What not?

All in all a very good and interesting tasting. For most there the 2011 vintage was preferred as a whole but I loved the 2010s.HIgher high in the 2010s for me, even if 2011s crowd pleasers. Served in flights of 5.

2010s:
Leeuwin: As above.
Moss Wood: Silky, softer, rounder fruit, plenty of oak, good depth.
Gladstones: Real surprise for me. Top wine. Earthy, cassis, great weight but retains wonderful elegance.
John Riddoch: I wrote in my notes TWE, thinking either JR or Bin 169. No shortage of oak but gee its got a mountain of quality fruit there. Had it a couple of times now, very very impressive.
Heytesbury: Fresher, livelier acid but a fraction simple for me.

Woodlands Heather Jean: Superb, maybe a touch heavy on the oak but flavoursome, fine knit, nice mineral kick to it. One of my favourites.
Bin 169: Decadent! Unusal word to describe a cabernet, clearly describing Penfolds first. Bit of formic acid, once JR had been revealed was obvious what this one was.
Cullen DM: My favourite of the 10s. I've been doubting my enjoyment of Cullens for a little while now (wife even weighed in saying why we still buying this wine) but this was singing. Youthful, balanced, fresh. Certainly a gentler style following the 169 but length to burn.
Cape Mentelle: Blackcurrant, red fruits, juicy, good length. Primary, no rush.

2011s:
Cullen DM: First bottle screwcap, rich and ripe. Not usual descriptors I think of with Cullens. Those who knew the order suggested opening a second bottle (from cork no less). Much better wine. Earthy, gentle tannins, long finish. Must have had this vintage at least half a dozen times and this was the best I'd seen it.
Coudburst: Polished, no rough edges, oak, graphite, balanced fruit and acids. Liked it a lot but at the price I didn't want to. A good friends pick of the 2011s.
Woodlands Alex: Very good, coming along nicely.
Moss Wood: Plenty of Moss Wood critics these days, but a good bottle of Moss Wood still lifts the table for me. This however was not one of those, bit disjointed and one of the weakest.
Heytesbury: Classic MR characters, good drink, lacked x-factor for me though.

Cape Mentelle: Dusty, fragrant, needs time but plenty there.
Gladstones: Red fruit, great flavors, nice and fine.
Cherubino: Something I couldn't put my finger on the nose that I didn't like. Bit tarry, grippy, huge fruit. Others loved it but not for me. PLenty in the tank. Hopefully I'll try it again someday.
Leeuwin: as above
Jack Mann: Very fragrant and complete nose. Fruit, oak, tannins just in great waves of layers, really liked this. Hope good bottles of 2012 turn out like this

Hope that helps mjs. Vintages 12 v 13 in a few weeks........

Cheers
TA

rens wrote:A year (almost two now I checked) or so ago we did an offline and the 2004 made an appearance. It was gorgeous.
Michael's tasting notes:

2004 Leeuwin Estate Art Series Cabernet. Margaret River. Quite tight on first look this relaxed in the glass and took on power and length with some gravelly notes, eucalypt and tar. Beautiful tannin. The last taste of this went on and on. I would wait for another few years if I only had one or two left (unfortunately I have none!). Beautiful wine thanks Nick

and Ians:

2004 Leeuwin Estate Art Series Cabernet. Margaret River. My pick of the "Westies" by some margin. Excellent wine that will develop into something exceptional. Medium bodied and amazing balance. Needs time (as almost all the wines did). 4/5

It came runner up to the wirra wirra for the group that night, but was my WOTN

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=14011&p=116538&hilit=sprout+wirra+wirra#p116538

I've got 5 magnums of this left - had one a few weeks ago and it was fantastic!