The Auswine Forum

I just purchased a 6 pack of 2010 Paolo Scavino Barolo from Grays
in the description there is no mention that all corks of the 6 bottles are leaking
when they arrived yesterday they are wine stained and leaking badly.
I emailed them and they say

"
I'm sorry to hear that you are not completely satisfied with your wine purchase.

The 30-Day Money-Back Guarantee that we offer applies to most of our wine sales if the goods you receive are faulty or damaged.

Unfortunately, I am not able to arrange for your goods to be returned to us or for a refund to be provided since this wine does not comes with a warranty.

We highly recommend that you ensure you are totally satisfied with the information that we have provided in the description as well as any applicable shipping fees and premiums that are listed before you place a bid on any product as our policy is that we do not retract bids if you have changed your mind or have misunderstood what was being offered."



My advice is caveat empor
but i am concerned they do not disclose such information for the buyer.

Comments ?

Well firstly, ill never buy wine from Grays, thank you for the heads up.

Second, the wine is clearly faulty and damaged so I would be demanding a refund despite what they say.

thanks for your feedback.
I dont care about the refund
I want everyone to acknowledge the shameful poor quality customer service and spread the facts of this story.
I will never purchase from them again.
I want others to not purchase from Grays- that is the best outcome for me.

michel wrote:The 30-Day Money-Back Guarantee that we offer applies to most of our wine sales if the goods you receive are faulty or damaged.

OK, great, the goods are both faulty AND damaged! Should be no issue then.

michel wrote:Unfortunately, I am not able to arrange for your goods to be returned to us or for a refund to be provided since this wine does not comes with a warranty.

Um, didn't you just say it does have a 30-Day Money-Back Guarantee???

WTF? What have I missed here? Not part of the 'Most' ?? No excuse if it wasn't supplied as described, or important issues were omitted.

michel wrote:We highly recommend that you ensure you are totally satisfied with the information that we have provided in the description as well as any applicable shipping fees and premiums that are listed before you place a bid on any product as our policy is that we do not retract bids if you have changed your mind or have misunderstood what was being offered."

You haven't changed your mind, and you understood completely what was being offered, 6 bottles of wine with no mention of any leaking corks. They supplied goods that were not what was described.


FWIW, I had a drama with them (sent wrong vintage) and they sorted it out immediately, paid for couriers each way etc.

I would be on the phone to them pronto.

I'd be pinging them where it's publicly visible on Facebook and Twitter.

Then if you don't get a response I'd be checking the details of Consumer Law and reminding them. Possibly also via twitter where they can't moderate your posts.

sparky wrote:I'd be pinging them where it's publicly visible on Facebook and Twitter.

Then if you don't get a response I'd be checking the details of Consumer Law and reminding them. Possibly also via twitter where they can't moderate your posts.

thanks Sparky - that is a grand idea.
Also I am reminded what Murray always said " it is an offence to mislead customers of their warranty rights"
but maybe this doesnt apply to auction goods ?

Include @acccgovau on your tweets and you should get a response.

Lifted directly from the ACCC website: https://www.accc.gov.au/consumers/consu ... guarantees. Well worth being familiar with the details of that page or book marking it.

Businesses must guarantee products and services they sell, hire or lease for:
under $40 000
over $40 000 that are normally bought for personal or household use.
Businesses must provide these automatic guarantees regardless of any other warranties they give to you or sell you.

Since 1 January 2011, the following consumer guarantees on products and services apply (including second hand goods).

Products must be of acceptable quality, that is:
safe, lasting, with no faults
look acceptable
do all the things someone would normally expect them to do.
Acceptable quality takes into account what would normally be expected for the type of product and cost.

I could understand for an older bottle, but these are 2010 if I remember correctly. (they must have a container load of them)

Must have been badly heat damaged to be leaking like that. I'm starting to see them appear at the other auction houses so maybe people are flicking them.

Surely you'd have a case with Fair Trading about description of goods, since leaking is such a fundamental thing for wine. Like advertising a car that doesn't run.

dave vino wrote:I could understand for an older bottle, but these are 2010 if I remember correctly. (they must have a container load of them)

Must have been badly heat damaged to be leaking like that. I'm starting to see them appear at the other auction houses so maybe people are flicking them.

As an aside, I did buy a bunch myself from a different auction site, have opened 3 bottles and all had sound corks / no leaking / no heat damage.

winetastic wrote:

dave vino wrote:I could understand for an older bottle, but these are 2010 if I remember correctly. (they must have a container load of them)

Must have been badly heat damaged to be leaking like that. I'm starting to see them appear at the other auction houses so maybe people are flicking them.

As an aside, I did buy a bunch myself from a different auction site, have opened 3 bottles and all had sound corks / no leaking / no heat damage.

same here
they were actually in very good condition

The ones that look ok have leakage on side of bottle

Sparky I have read ACCC but does it apply to auction?

michel wrote:Sparky I have read ACCC but does it apply to auction?

Reading this page I would have thought so: http://www.accc.gov.au/consumers/online ... e-auctions

But keep in mind that I'm an unemployed wine geek, not a Consumer Law beak:-)

Worth telling them specifically what you want them to do to fix it and escalate (by phone) until you get someone high enough up the food chain to make a decision. One phone call and sufficient bloody mindedness should fix it.

michel wrote:

The ones that look ok have leakage on side of bottle

Sparky I have read ACCC but does it apply to auction?

Woah. They no looky no good.

Mention to them that you have posted about this on Australian wine forums and users are waiting to see how they handle it.

Cheers, Travis.

...It's been a while since I logged in here but I couldn't resist when I saw the images.

There is no way that you should even be thinking about not pursuing getting your money back. That's pretty shameful service from Gray's. I mean who sells wine looking like that without telling the buyer about it? Would you have placed a bid had you known? I doubt it.

FWIW...another auction house has bought a mountain of the same wine and now sell it (in addition to also selling it auction) directly to buyers. It's put a pretty high floor under the price (almost double what it used to go for at auction) for what used to be a QPR wine. As business practices go it's pretty unsavoury....

I hope you get your money back.

Cheers
Matt

What is worse is these are not already boxed items, so it looks as if they have cherry picked 6 leaking bottles and put them all in the same box.

Yes reboxed- so the bottles were seen to repackage I suspect.
I am not keen on phone calls I like a trail of responsibility.
I have emailed and asked for the original listing with the information for the buyer to inform of leaking corks.
I have not informed them of this website.
I will not exceed my warranty rights.

This is just the beginning.

michel

From ACCC
"

Consumer rights for online auctions
You can make a complaint and ask for a refund under the Australian Consumer Law if an Australian business selling through online auction, sold you a product that:

misled you about features of the product or hid costs or other details from you
was stolen, did not belong to the business or individual or came with outstanding debts, charges or restrictions the business didn’t tell you about beforehand
was faulty or does not do what it is supposed to (but this does not apply to traditional auctions)."


With all due respect I was not informed or it was hidden that the corks were leaking.
If I missed that in the text then I am in the wrong.
My aim here is transparency in the wine auction process.
The people at Grays were not interested in the issue or photograph of my concern. The deal had been done & they imo washed their hands of it.
This is poor customer relationship and poor long term business honesty.

do you have the equivalent of the 'small claims court' - for disputes over relatively small amounts that is both fast-tracked and avoids disproportionate legal costs?

If works well over here, and wouldn't take this sort of nonsense from an auction house.

Ian S wrote:do you have the equivalent of the 'small claims court' - for disputes over relatively small amounts that is both fast-tracked and avoids disproportionate legal costs?

If works well over here, and wouldn't take this sort of nonsense from an auction house.

Yes we do Ian
We use a Small ClaimsmTribunal via the Sheriff if needed.
I will follow the ACCC reccomended protocol first to exercise my Warranty rights.
I will send a letter this week or early next week.

Good luck!

Looking forward to see how you get on michel.

Thanks Michel

Grays is now black listed. There are far too many honourable places to purchase from. Even if they are coerced into remedial action in your favour, their reputation is already damaged.

Good luck

I havent done a formal letter just an email expressing concern re the leakage & lack of transparency
This email arrived just now


"
Dear Michel,

I am sorry to hear that there has been an issue with your recent delivery of Wines.

So that I can have this matter taken care of for you, could you please send photographs, by return email, of:

The damage/leak to the goods;
All sides of the box that the goods arrived in, clearly displaying the leak;
How the item was packaged.

Once I have received these photos I will be able to investigate this matter and provide you with an outcome.

*** Kindly send photos with size under 3MB so that it will be accepted by the email servers. ***
I look forward to hearing from you at your earliest convenience.

Should you require further information or need additional help, please contact our Customer Service Help Centre on 1300 36 25 36 or email customerservice@grays.com.au

Kind regards,"


I hope this is going to be a postive outcome

At least they are requesting some information/photos. I guess that is a good start.

As a serial complainer I have to say that my experience with that kind of response is favourable

Bobthebuilder wrote:As a serial complainer I have to say that my experience with that kind of response is favourable

I like serial complainers
We need more
We are too complacent

update


Hi Michel,

I hope all is well.

Thank you for sending the photos. I will coordinate with the Wine Sale Team and Related Department regarding the dispute of the leaking wine(s). Once I get any update I will let you know ASAP.

Kind regards,

kinda funny
they cant see the leaky bottles on the above photo
so i zoomed in and resent

can anyone spot the leaky bottle ?

michel wrote:the dispute of the leaking wine(s).

Dispute? There is no dispute.

Hacker wrote:

michel wrote:the dispute of the leaking wine(s).

Dispute? There is no dispute.

I get what they're doing and to be honest I possibly would have said something very similar - they're (the messenger who responded to your email) not admitting liability or confirming what the problem is until it's gone to someone who can do that - probably the wine sales team or the mysterious 'related department'.

No point agreeing with you that they send you shagged wines until someone up the food chain says they did.

I don't doubt they'll come to the right conclusion but there are a few internal processes they need to move through first. I also suspect English may not be their first language from the way it's been worded, which may be why it's a bit clunky.