The Auswine Forum

Have you ever gone through a bad streak where it seems the majority of the bottles you open are undrinkable or stuffed?

I'm in the middle of one of these runs and it's absolutely killing my buzz for old wines at the moment.

If it weren't for the generosity of some wonderful wineries for replacing the said wines, I reckon I'd be just about ready to give up on old/cork (Australian) wines.

That leads me to another point - what percentage of wines do you think get repeatedly turned-over at auction once the owner realises they're no good?

Sounds like someone's bottom lip is quivering a bit to me!

Whilst some proclaim that they send wines to auction because their preference for a particular variety or style has changed, the cynic in me thinks wines that are on the turnstile are there for two reasons:

vendor greed, pass in after pass in after pass in
And yes might be a "dodgy" cork or two that puts the wind up a few, so inevitably handballed to be someone else's problem...or indeed joy when a great bottle turns up.

Cheers
Craig

Diddy wrote:Have you ever gone through a bad streak where it seems the majority of the bottles you open are undrinkable or stuffed?

I'm in the middle of one of these runs and it's absolutely killing my buzz for old wines at the moment.

It happened to me 15 years ago until it was pointed out to me that the medicine I was on for a few weeks could impair my taste. As such, I perhaps needlessly poured out good bottles.....

Miracle Mile Hunter Valley cabernet sauvignon, seemingly non-vintage.

As a guest, I very graciously accepted and enthused about the wine, the host had chosen this from a local wine store (Xiangmi Hu) knowing he had his first "Aussie" as a guest.
has anyone heard of this wine?
actually wasn't too bad, would have thought it a shiraz, but decent length.
one of the myriad of Aus wines here in China I have never seen or heard of back home.
would give it 82 points and drink now, but it was the thought that counts. Actually went well with some delicious pork.

Never heard of it, but i know a few wineries export under separate labels. A quick google shows this one might be Tamburlaine.

I know a guy in HKG who bought a heat damaged container of wine including First Growths and sent them to a famous Aussie auction house. Not admirable behavior frankly, and this is why I don't buy at auction, and unless I pass, and family wants the money I don't ever sell at auction either- my wines are too good to be sold with the riff-raff. I pull the corks on 25 year old wines I bought on release and the corks are perfect- zero seepage or stains. And the freshness is to behold- except in the 5-10% that are buggered due TCA.

JamieBahrain wrote:I know a guy in HKG who bought a heat damaged container of wine including First Growths and sent them to a famous Aussie auction house. Not admirable behavior frankly, and this is why I don't buy at auction, and unless I pass, and family wants the money I don't ever sell at auction either- my wines are too good to be sold with the riff-raff. I pull the corks on 25 year old wines I bought on release and the corks are perfect- zero seepage or stains. And the freshness is to behold- except in the 5-10% that are buggered due TCA.

Well that's just not cricket, and one of the reasons why I balk at buying wines from auction.
I do hear great things about Wickmans though!
Been tempted on many occasion. Don't worry Mark, Im very close! (i'm sure you're not worried btw)
Need to find a nice drop for the old boys 70th next year.

JamieBahrain wrote:I know a guy in HKG who bought a heat damaged container of wine including First Growths and sent them to a famous Aussie auction house. Not admirable behavior frankly, and this is why I don't buy at auction, and unless I pass, and family wants the money I don't ever sell at auction either- my wines are too good to be sold with the riff-raff. I pull the corks on 25 year old wines I bought on release and the corks are perfect- zero seepage or stains. And the freshness is to behold- except in the 5-10% that are buggered due TCA.

I think you left out an "in" in front of the "famous"
can only assume they have no "minister for forward planning" because in ten years every wine-lover in Australia will understand their ethics, and absolutely no-one will buy (and therefore attempt to sell) thru them. I simply cannot think of a more unscrupulous bunch.

felixp wrote:

JamieBahrain wrote:I know a guy in HKG who bought a heat damaged container of wine including First Growths and sent them to a famous Aussie auction house. Not admirable behavior frankly, and this is why I don't buy at auction, and unless I pass, and family wants the money I don't ever sell at auction either- my wines are too good to be sold with the riff-raff. I pull the corks on 25 year old wines I bought on release and the corks are perfect- zero seepage or stains. And the freshness is to behold- except in the 5-10% that are buggered due TCA.

I think you left out an "in" in front of the "famous"
can only assume they have no "minister for forward planning" because in ten years every wine-lover in Australia will understand their ethics, and absolutely no-one will buy (and therefore attempt to sell) thru them. I simply cannot think of a more unscrupulous bunch.

And in 2012 this same famous auction house refused to sell about a dozen bottles of mine because there were signs of leakage through the wax capsules (which the importer insisted at the time were due to high fill levels at the winery). Sounds like a strange double standard to me - was Mr HKG honest with Mr Auction House about the provenance of his wines?

And a word for Wickmans - Mark takes provenance seriously. I have had to vouch for every bottle I have asked him to sell for me. There was one bottle only I couldn't vouch for - and its not being auctioned.

Can names be named please? Am fairly new to the caper and have bought (but not yet drunk) from auction. Anecdotes won't stop me snapping up the absolute (at face level) bargains but are very much welcome!

rhymes with the stuff whales eat

was Mr HKG honest with Mr Auction House about the provenance of his wines?

No, wouldn't that minimize his profits? He was making money from damaged First Growths and Grand Cru Burgundy he bought for nothing and piling them into the Aussie market. He said it took 18 months before the auction house started refusing his stock.

Ha..Thanks felix.

JamieBahrain wrote:

was Mr HKG honest with Mr Auction House about the provenance of his wines?

No, wouldn't that minimize his profits? He was making money from damaged First Growths and Grand Cru Burgundy he bought for nothing and piling them into the Aussie market. He said it took 18 months before the auction house started refusing his stock.

Thanks - I'm trying to be clear in who was responsible for the shady behaviour here, and it seems it is the vendor not the auction house.

I have issues with this auction house for another reason, but that's to do with competence rather than ethics.

Wizz wrote:And a word for Wickmans - Mark takes provenance seriously. I have had to vouch for every bottle I have asked him to sell for me. There was one bottle only I couldn't vouch for - and its not being auctioned.

It's great that Mark takes the extra step in questioning provenance, but in all seriousness, what's to stop an unscrupulous seller from simply stating they've been professionally cellared since being originally bought?

Diddy wrote:

Wizz wrote:And a word for Wickmans - Mark takes provenance seriously. I have had to vouch for every bottle I have asked him to sell for me. There was one bottle only I couldn't vouch for - and its not being auctioned.

It's great that Mark takes the extra step in questioning provenance, but in all seriousness, what's to stop an unscrupulous seller from simply stating they've been professionally cellared since being originally bought?

True - absolutely nothing. Sellers can be an unscrupulous lot including Mr HKG above.

With Wickmans I was initially asked for evidence of provenance via receipts, which i don't have, but I do have records of where and when every bottle was purchased.

The small and under exposed Australian market is pretty vulnerable to these types of antics ( including international fakes ). The guy in HKG said it took 18 months before the auction house refused his lots from the heat damaged container. I can sadly see folks sitting around mulling how the DRC or Mouton was in a bit of a hole until someone who had prior exposure to the wines or a half decent palate called the auction house and said they were buggered.

Or of course, how many of these bottles are set to make an eventual return to the auction house to be dished off as having great provenance having been bought there prior?

JamieBahrain wrote:The guy in HKG said it took 18 months before the auction house refused his lots from the heat damaged container. I can sadly see folks sitting around mulling how the DRC or Mouton was in a bit of a hole until someone who had prior exposure to the wines or a half decent palate called the auction house and said they were buggered.

Last month I couldn't believe my eyes when I saw a number of bottles that had clearly failed Penfolds clinics appear at a major Australian wine auction. All the signs were there, no capsules, extremely low fill levels, new looking unbranded corks, the only thing missing was the white dot of death... pretty easy to spot I would have thought.

I sent a message to the auction house as soon as I saw them, and they replied that they would look into it. To their credit they did get back to me confirming the offending bottles were from failed clinics, and they were removed from the auction prior to closing - those bidding on these lots would get an explaination as to why they were removed.

The reason given to me why it occurred was because of a computer error - I'm still astounded that nobody picked them before they were catalogued, hell, someone obviously took pictures of the bottles to put them up on the webiste!

Cheers,
Ian

Ps. My failure rate to date this year has been pretty ordinary, as of the 25th October there has been 47 duds out of 279 under cork. Low points have been the Wendouree and Vintage Port tastings a few months ago, now that's what I call a bad streak.